CDZ As if anyone needs more evidence that Trump cannot be relied upon....transsexuals and bathrooms

I wish he had simply said " I believe private businesses can do as they wish with THEIR restrooms, if you don't agree with their policy, go use another restroom"

And nothing more on the subject.

I get what you are saying, but strictly speaking, that approach opens the door to our reverting back to a social model similar to the "separate but equal" one we had until the late 1960s. I don't think that's a good thing at all. Regardless, he said what he said. The question remains: how long will that be his stance?
I won't further derail your thread, but I disagree with you.

As for how long will that be his stance? Can you truly name more than a handful of politicians who haven't "evolved" on such topics?

Here's what I think. I think he isn't socially conservative AT ALL. BUT sometimes he says stuff and his handlers remind him that he has to play nice with the GOP conservatives.

Take a look at Hillary , as an example, Bernie pushed her WAY left on many issues, once she gets to the general do you think she'll pivot center? I bet she does. She can't alienate the mainstream liberals who are NOT as far left as she's had to go to compete with Bernie. It is what it s.
 
I wish he had simply said " I believe private businesses can do as they wish with THEIR restrooms, if you don't agree with their policy, go use another restroom"

And nothing more on the subject.

I get what you are saying, but strictly speaking, that approach opens the door to our reverting back to a social model similar to the "separate but equal" one we had until the late 1960s. I don't think that's a good thing at all. Regardless, he said what he said. The question remains: how long will that be his stance?
I won't further derail your thread, but I disagree with you.

As for how long will that be his stance? Can you truly name more than a handful of politicians who haven't "evolved" on such topics?

Here's what I think. I think he isn't socially conservative AT ALL. BUT sometimes he says stuff and his handlers remind him that he has to play nice with the GOP conservatives.

Take a look at Hillary , as an example, Bernie pushed her WAY left on many issues, once she gets to the general do you think she'll pivot center? I bet she does. She can't alienate the mainstream liberals who are NOT as far left as she's had to go to compete with Bernie. It is what it s.

Red:
TY. And TY too for shifting the focus of your remarks to the idea of "pivoting" or "evolving" on an issue/stance. That's very much in line with the topic.

Blue:
On the matter of a person's pivoting political positions (evolving), there is a certain amount of it that is both expected and needed, most especially to arrive at collaborative consensus in a public or legislative forum. "Win-win" doesn't often happen without some share of compromise by the parties involved. Nonetheless, it is critical that the decision making parties and the stakeholders involved all understand one another's starting positions. It's also essential that the "pivot" be something done to arrive at a "win-win" solution, and something one does merely because one hadn't any clear idea of what one wanted at the outset of the decision making process.

Seeming having no clear clue of what his own position is on a number of issues is a big problem with Trump. Take his abortion stances which changed five times in three days. How does a nearly 70 year old man not at this point in time have a well formed position on the abortion issue? It's not remotely a new topic in the political arena. I'll posit one way: he hasn't put any thought into it. The abortion issue isn't the only one in which Trump has varied his own stance -- being that it's his and he has been called only to state his position, not haggle on a compromise with Congress -- in the course of a relatively short time period. From June 2015 to August 2015, the man has changed his views on at least 20 political matters.

Does any mature adult who's considered the issues relevant to the Presidency change their mind that much in even one year? I damn sure don't and I don't want a President who re: the host of "not new" issues is so either uncertain or unaware of what they think on them and why they think it to become President. I could somewhat tolerate my kids, when they are indeed children, not knowing why they thought "this" or did "that, but that's an unacceptable response or indication to receive from a Presidential aspirant.


An evolved position, in and of itself, isn't terrible. Observers like you and I must consider the context of the original person the politician espoused. For example, on the matter of the minimum wage, Mrs. Clinton favors $12/hour and Mr. Sanders $15/hour. Sure, those are empirical sums, but the point both of them have is that the minimum wage needs to be notably higher than it is currently.

You, others, and I don't need to agree on what the "right" sum be, just as the two Democratic contenders don't. We do need to recognize the central theme is that the minimum wage needs to be increased. So were it come about that either of them could only get passed through Congress a minimum wage increase to, say, $11 per hour, I would expect them to accept that rather than reject it because they couldn't get $12 or $15 per hour. Similarly, given that both of them want to increase the minimum wage, one has no reason to expect either of them to accept a reduction in the national minimum wage.

Applying context to the matter of trans folks and bathrooms, there are three dimensions to consider: social, legal and financial. Trump may pivot to the position of separate restrooms for transsexuals, but I would infer he will not do given his remarks about the cost of doing so. But there again, I can't be sure; it's not clear whether the social aspects of the matter predominate in his mind over the legal or monetary ones. Maybe he will acquiesce to the idea of "stall only" restrooms, but there again, I have no idea whether he'd find that acceptable.

Now which way Trump may pivot on the issue isn't as big of a problem as our not having any idea of what be the limits of the pivot he'd be willing to make. And that's the problem. Mrs. Clinton, Mr. Cruz, Mr. Kasich, and/or Mr. Sanders have shown they've thought carefully on a number of issues and pretty well hold true to whatever they claim be their positions. In turn, we voters may agree or disagree with their stances, but we all know what they are and we know are and we know with a pretty good degree of confidence what are the limits of their flexibility. That knowledge allows us to make our own electoral choices about them with a corresponding degree of confidence.

That simply doesn't rationally exist with regard to Trump's stated positions. The man has been inaccurate -- I don't even care why, be it due to prevarication or ignorance -- about more things he's said than any other candidates. (I haven't checked recently, but I suspect his false statements may surpass the sum of all the other contenders' combined.) He's also shown that he lacks depth on a number of specific topics. Lastly, he's repeatedly changed his stance in a relatively short period of time on so many things. That's what teenagers do.
 

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