"As Americans, we will not or ever be at war with Islam."

[AllieBaba]

Please provide your OT reference to kill non-believers that isn't a specific directive against a specific group at a specific time.

 

[Sunni Man]

Just like Christians did fight major bloody battles under them, so did Muslims.
There were even Muslim dynasties, which solely did fought other Muslim dynasties not coming in touch with any other faith.

I really question your knowledge in history, because you make very weak arguments over a period - as you say - of 1500 years in 5 text lines.

"I think we'd all be more interested in looking at [violence of other religions] and looking at life of Moses and what the Old Testament teaches if Jews [and Christians] were flying planes into skyscrapers, shouting 'Allahu akbar,' slaughtering thousands of innocent Americans."
Ann Coulter, 11-26-02

"The little darlings brandish placards with typical Religion of Peace slogans, such as 'Behead Those Who Insult Islam,' 'Europe, you will pay, extermination is on the way,' and 'Butcher those who mock Islam.' They warn Europe of their own impending 9/11 with sighs that say 'Europe: Your 9/11 will come'- which is ironic, because they almost had me convinced the Jews were behind the 9/11 attack."
Ann Coulter, 2-08-06

what a beauty she is, inside and out

I always thought Ann Coulter was a guy!!

 

[blu]

Yes Chanel, because we all know Michelle Malkin is the go-to person on the subject of Islam. Or maybe, just maybe, you should stop listening to fear mongers like Michelle Malkin.

You're automatically making the assumption that all of those terrorist attacks were made because Islam is at war with us. In reality, all of those attacks were done by Muslim extremists. Though maybe you should educate yourself as to why Iran took those hostages in '79.

Give you a hint:

Go to google, type in Iran Shah 1953 and go to the first link that comes up. After that, go to google again and type in SAVAK. Click on that first link.

You're welcome.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldgbOxDX6DE]YouTube - Is Ron Paul serious? Blowback in 1979 from a 1953 coup?[/ame]

watch the pbs documentary clip after ron paul speaks. in 1979 they were screaming "death to americans" and still screaming about the overthrow as the kidnappings happened

 

[PoliticalChic]

There is a footnote to it, just under the sura in the Qran that outlines same.

Try not to be clever...it hardly suits you.

I'll make you a deal, I'll stop trying to be clever if you stop pretending that you're intelligent. Deal?

Considering the Old Testament says to kill nonbelievers, I think Miss Coulter and yourself should go back and read what you supposedly think you have knowledge of.

How prescient of Ms. Coulter to have anticipated your usual bumber-sticker level of insight:

" Why should Islam be subject to presumption of respect because it is a religion? Liberals bar the most benign expressions of religion by little America. Only a religion that is highly correlated with fascistic attacks on the United States demands their respect and protection."
Ann Coulter, 9-05-02

 

[Modbert]

Please provide your OT reference to kill non-believers that isn't a specific directive against a specific group at a specific time.

Wat.

I'm pretty sure non-believers themselves would be considered a specific group. Question fail.

Deuteronomy 13:1-18 - PassageLookup - New Living Translation - BibleGateway.com

A Warning against Idolatry

1 [a]“Suppose there are prophets among you or those who dream dreams about the future, and they promise you signs or miracles, 2 and the predicted signs or miracles occur. If they then say, ‘Come, let us worship other gods’—gods you have not known before—3 do not listen to them. The Lord your God is testing you to see if you truly love him with all your heart and soul. 4 Serve only the Lord your God and fear him alone. Obey his commands, listen to his voice, and cling to him. 5 The false prophets or visionaries who try to lead you astray must be put to death, for they encourage rebellion against the Lord your God, who redeemed you from slavery and brought you out of the land of Egypt. Since they try to lead you astray from the way the Lord your God commanded you to live, you must put them to death. In this way you will purge the evil from among you.
6 “Suppose someone secretly entices you—even your brother, your son or daughter, your beloved wife, or your closest friend—and says, ‘Let us go worship other gods’—gods that neither you nor your ancestors have known. 7 They might suggest that you worship the gods of peoples who live nearby or who come from the ends of the earth. 8 But do not give in or listen. Have no pity, and do not spare or protect them. 9 You must put them to death! Strike the first blow yourself, and then all the people must join in. 10 Stone the guilty ones to death because they have tried to draw you away from the Lord your God, who rescued you from the land of Egypt, the place of slavery. 11 Then all Israel will hear about it and be afraid, and no one will act so wickedly again.

12 “When you begin living in the towns the Lord your God is giving you, you may hear 13 that scoundrels among you are leading their fellow citizens astray by saying, ‘Let us go worship other gods’—gods you have not known before. 14 In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find that the report is true and such a detestable act has been committed among you, 15 you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. 16 Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the open square and burn it. Burn the entire town as a burnt offering to the Lord your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. 17 Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the Lord will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a large nation, just as he swore to your ancestors.

18 “The Lord your God will be merciful only if you listen to his voice and keep all his commands that I am giving you today, doing what pleases him.

And your argument goes down faster than the Titanic.

 

[blu]

Please provide your OT reference to kill non-believers that isn't a specific directive against a specific group at a specific time.

Wat.

I'm pretty sure non-believers themselves would be considered a specific group. Question fail.

Deuteronomy 13:1-18 - PassageLookup - New Living Translation - BibleGateway.com

A Warning against Idolatry

1 [a]“Suppose there are prophets among you or those who dream dreams about the future, and they promise you signs or miracles, 2 and the predicted signs or miracles occur. If they then say, ‘Come, let us worship other gods’—gods you have not known before—3 do not listen to them. The Lord your God is testing you to see if you truly love him with all your heart and soul. 4 Serve only the Lord your God and fear him alone. Obey his commands, listen to his voice, and cling to him. 5 The false prophets or visionaries who try to lead you astray must be put to death, for they encourage rebellion against the Lord your God, who redeemed you from slavery and brought you out of the land of Egypt. Since they try to lead you astray from the way the Lord your God commanded you to live, you must put them to death. In this way you will purge the evil from among you.
6 “Suppose someone secretly entices you—even your brother, your son or daughter, your beloved wife, or your closest friend—and says, ‘Let us go worship other gods’—gods that neither you nor your ancestors have known. 7 They might suggest that you worship the gods of peoples who live nearby or who come from the ends of the earth. 8 But do not give in or listen. Have no pity, and do not spare or protect them. 9 You must put them to death! Strike the first blow yourself, and then all the people must join in. 10 Stone the guilty ones to death because they have tried to draw you away from the Lord your God, who rescued you from the land of Egypt, the place of slavery. 11 Then all Israel will hear about it and be afraid, and no one will act so wickedly again.

12 “When you begin living in the towns the Lord your God is giving you, you may hear 13 that scoundrels among you are leading their fellow citizens astray by saying, ‘Let us go worship other gods’—gods you have not known before. 14 In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find that the report is true and such a detestable act has been committed among you, 15 you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. 16 Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the open square and burn it. Burn the entire town as a burnt offering to the Lord your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. 17 Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the Lord will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a large nation, just as he swore to your ancestors.

18 “The Lord your God will be merciful only if you listen to his voice and keep all his commands that I am giving you today, doing what pleases him.

And your argument goes down faster than the Titanic.

queue up the excuses how this isnt equivalent

 

[Modbert]

Example #2:

Deuteronomy 17:1-8 - PassageLookup - New Living Translation - BibleGateway.com

Deuteronomy 17:1-8 (New Living Translation)

Deuteronomy 17

“Never sacrifice sick or defective cattle, sheep, or goats to the Lord your God, for he detests such gifts.

2 “When you begin living in the towns the Lord your God is giving you, a man or woman among you might do evil in the sight of the Lord your God and violate the covenant. 3 For instance, they might serve other gods or worship the sun, the moon, or any of the stars—the forces of heaven—which I have strictly forbidden. 4 When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, 5 then the man or woman who has committed such an evil act must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death. 6 But never put a person to death on the testimony of only one witness. There must always be two or three witnesses. 7 The witnesses must throw the first stones, and then all the people may join in. In this way, you will purge the evil from among you.

8 “Suppose a case arises in a local court that is too hard for you to decide—for instance, whether someone is guilty of murder or only of manslaughter, or a difficult lawsuit, or a case involving different kinds of assault. Take such legal cases to the place the Lord your God will choose,

 

[rdean]

Fuck Islam. I think over the last 1500 years they have established they convert by the sword and seek to control the world in any way possible.

I think in the last 1500 years they have established their MO, which is to first befriend, then oppress, those they see as enemies..and they see anyone who is not Muslim as an enemy.

I think over the last 1500 years they have proven that they habitually and institutionally abuse children, women, and people of different religions., and that they can justify any vile behavior with their koran.

Fuck them.

Thank God Christians never did that.

But if this charge is true (that she wasn't a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father's house. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst. (Deuteronomy 22:20-21 NAB)

Make ready to slaughter his sons for the guilt of their fathers; Lest they rise and posses the earth, and fill the breadth of the world with tyrants. (Isaiah 14:21 NAB)

Go, now, attack Amalek, and deal with him and all that he has under the ban. Do not spare him, but kill men and women, children and infants, oxen and sheep, camels and asses.' (1 Samuel 15:2-3 NAB)

They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)

Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB)

A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)

All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense. (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)

Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)
----------------------------------------------

The difference is that in the last few hundred years, we have been able to mostly throw off the shackles of religion. The Muslims have NOT been able to do that. Calling them names and threatening them is the very WORST method to get them to change.

---------------------------------

Mohammed was orphaned by the time he was six.

Adopted by his merchant uncle, he traveled throughout Egypt and the Near East, where he learned the theology of the Jews and Christians.

He claimed to have received a revelation from the angel Gabriel.

Mohammed authored the Koran, containing prayers, rules of etiquette and calls to wage "holy wars."

The Islamic Creed is: "There is no god but Allah, and Mohammed is the Messenger of Allah." or prophet of Allah.

Muslims claim Abraham as their father...

By AD 718, the Muslims conquered throughout Spain and North Africa. They were at the height of their power during this time in history.

Church History

-----------------------------------------

If we hadn't been able to limit the intolerance of the Christian Religion, we would be no different than Middle Eastern Muslims. After all, the Christian religion came from the "Middle East". It IS a "Middle Eastern Religion".

 

[chanel]

The following is a list of known terror plots thwarted by the U.S. government since Sept. 11, 2001.

• December 2001, Richard Reid: British citizen attempted to ignite shoe bomb on flight from Paris to Miami.

• May 2002, Jose Padilla: American citizen accused of seeking radioactive-laced "dirty bomb" to use in an attack against Amrica. Padilla was convicted of conspiracy in August, 2007.

• September 2002, Lackawanna Six: American citizens of Yemeni origin convicted of supporting Al Qaeda after attending jihadist camp in Pakistan. Five of six were from Lackawanna, N.Y.

• May 2003, Iyman Faris: American citizen charged with plotting to use blowtorches to collapse the Brooklyn Bridge.

• June 2003, Virginia Jihad Network: Eleven men from Alexandria, Va., trained for jihad against American soldiers, convicted of violating the Neutrality Act, conspiracy.

• August 2004, Dhiren Barot: Indian-born leader of terror cell plotted bombings on financial centers (see additional images).

• August 2004, James Elshafay and Shahawar Matin Siraj: Sought to plant bomb at New York's Penn Station during the Republican National Convention.

• August 2004, Yassin Aref and Mohammed Hossain: Plotted to assassinate a Pakistani diplomat on American soil.

• June 2005, Father and son Umer Hayat and Hamid Hayat: Son convicted of attending terrorist training camp in Pakistan; father convicted of customs violation.

• August 2005, Kevin James, Levar Haley Washington, Gregory Vernon Patterson and Hammad Riaz Samana: Los Angeles homegrown terrorists who plotted to attack National Guard, LAX, two synagogues and Israeli consulate.

• December 2005, Michael Reynolds: Plotted to blow up natural gas refinery in Wyoming, the Transcontinental Pipeline, and a refinery in New Jersey. Reynolds was sentenced to 30 years in prison.

• February 2006, Mohammad Zaki Amawi, Marwan Othman El-Hindi and Zand Wassim Mazloum: Accused of providing material support to terrorists, making bombs for use in Iraq.

• April 2006, Syed Haris Ahmed and Ehsanul Islam Sadequee: Cased and videotaped the Capitol and World Bank for a terrorist organization.

• June 2006, Narseal Batiste, Patrick Abraham, Stanley Grant Phanor, Naudimar Herrera, Burson Augustin, Lyglenson Lemorin, and Rotschild Augstine: Accused of plotting to blow up the Sears Tower.

• July 2006, Assem Hammoud: Accused of plotting to bomb New York City train tunnels.

• August 2006, Liquid Explosives Plot: Thwarted plot to explode ten airliners over the United States.

• March 2007, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed: Mastermind of Sept. 11 and author of numerous plots confessed in court in March 2007 to planning to destroy skyscrapers in New York, Los Angeles and Chicago. Mohammedalso plotted to assassinate Pope John Paul II and former President Bill Clinton.

• May 2007, Fort Dix Plot: Six men accused of plotting to attack Fort Dix Army base in New Jersey. The plan included attacking and killing soldiers using assault rifles and grenades.

• June 2007, JFK Plot: Four men are accused of plotting to blow up fuel arteries that run through residential neighborhoods at JFK Airport in New York.

• September 2007, German authorities disrupt a terrorist cell that was planning attacks on military installations and facilities used by Americans in Germany. The Germans arrested three suspected members of the Islamic Jihad Union, a group that has links to Al Qaeda and supports Al Qaeda's global jihadist agenda.

Foiled Terror Plots Against America Since 9/11 - Local News | News Articles | National News | US News - FOXNews.com

That list does not include: Times Square, Ft. Hood, Christmas Day, etc. See a pattern anyone?

Interesting article here on homegrown Islamic terrorism. Even though the naysayers believe all the American Muslims are peaceful.

During the past year, terrorism experts and government officials have warned of the threat posed by homegrown radicals, saying terror recruits who go abroad could return to the United States to carry out attacks.

But the United States, the report said, should have learned earlier from Britain's experience.

Before the 2005 suicide bombings in London's transit system, the British believed that Muslims there were better integrated, educated and wealthier than their counterparts elsewhere.

Similarly, U.S. authorities believed that its melting pot of nationalities and religions would protect it from internal radical strife, the report said.

The terrorists, it said, may have discovered America's "Achilles' heel in that we currently have no strategy to counter the type of threat posed by homegrown terrorists and other radicalized recruits."

FOXNews.com - U.S. Has 'No Strategy' to Confront Homegrown Terror, Security Group Warns

 

[Modbert]

I love how Chanel just ignores my post and continues on with her fear mongering. You make it clear with each passing post Chanel that your participation in this thread had nothing to do with intelligent or honest conversation, rather the continued demonization of a religion that's not yours.

 

[chanel]

Wrong modbert. I am not going to research the Shah of Iran and let you hijack the thread for your own personal "gotchas". This is about a pattern of attacks on America. Stick to the subject please.

 

[blu]

Wrong modbert. I am not going to research the Shah of Iran and let you hijack the thread for your own personal "gotchas". This is about a pattern of attacks on America. Stick to the subject please.

so you will stick to spouting unfunded and unresearched ideas then?



watch the pbs video I linked for starters

 

[Modbert]

Wrong modbert. I am not going to research the Shah of Iran and let you hijack the thread for your own personal "gotchas". This is about a pattern of attacks on America. Stick to the subject please.

Yeah, why go outside your comfort zone and learn uncomfortable truths that you're not ready to face about our actions overseas? You want to talk about "patterns of attacks on America" supposedly yet you don't want to research the why behind one of the attacks. All you want to do is demonize Islam.

I don't know how you wrap your mind around that logic.

"This thread is about a pattern of attacks on America. But I refuse to look up why America was attacked one of the times I mentioned."

 

[blu]

Wrong modbert. I am not going to research the Shah of Iran and let you hijack the thread for your own personal "gotchas". This is about a pattern of attacks on America. Stick to the subject please.

Yeah, why go outside your comfort zone and learn uncomfortable truths that you're not ready to face about our actions overseas? You want to talk about "patterns of attacks on America" supposedly yet you don't want to research the why behind one of the attacks. All you want to do is demonize Islam.

I don't know how you wrap your mind around that logic.

"This thread is about a pattern of attacks on America. But I refuse to look up why America was attacked one of the times I mentioned."

maybe that is what it means to be patriotic

 

[chanel]

Hey guys - would it make you feel more "comfortable" if we gave them a pass for 1979? Ok. Let's do that. How about if we just look at the past 20 years? See a pattern? Sheez.

We are at war with radical Islam. Anyone who denies that is either blind or a terrorist sympathizer. Which are you?

 

[blu]

Hey guys - would it make you feel more "comfortable" if we gave them a pass for 1979? Ok. Let's do that. How about if we just look at the past 20 years? See a pattern? Sheez.

We are at war with radical Islam. Anyone who denies that is either blind or a terrorist sympathizer. Which are you?

o you mean when we created and enforced sanctions that led to 500,000 children in iraq dying or what about when we went into kuwait to get iraq's army out after kuwait had stole their oil and produced more oil than allowed by opec in order to make it impossible for iraq to pay back its debts?

or what about when we went into Afghanistan and armed whats now the taliban and built and filled madrasas in order to radicalize the afghan's around islam in order to give all the separate tribes a unified reason to stand together against the russians? btw those madrasas are still there today and being used by the taliban & al qaeda

 

[ekrem]

"I think we'd all be more interested in looking at [violence of other religions] and looking at life of Moses and what the Old Testament teaches if Jews [and Christians] were flying planes into skyscrapers, shouting 'Allahu akbar,' slaughtering thousands of innocent Americans."
Ann Coulter, 11-26-02

"The little darlings brandish placards with typical Religion of Peace slogans, such as 'Behead Those Who Insult Islam,' 'Europe, you will pay, extermination is on the way,' and 'Butcher those who mock Islam.' They warn Europe of their own impending 9/11 with sighs that say 'Europe: Your 9/11 will come'- which is ironic, because they almost had me convinced the Jews were behind the 9/11 attack."
Ann Coulter, 2-08-06

Do you have an opinion, too? I would gladly hear it.
The "Fuck them" mentality of Alliebaba or RtySeargent alikes is made out of a false premise. You're only fighting a bunch of thousand Taliban-AlKaida mix.
NYT said, 3.000 full-time fighters in 2007 in Afghanistan.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/30/world/asia/30afghan.html?_r=1
Probably the Taliban-AlKaidas don't get material or human support by more then 20.000 people from world, the whole affair -so well termed - asymetric not involving nation states.

Convenient to the thread title, a War against Islam is a total different level. Not the small-scale affair you're currently dealing with and you already have problems with.

 

[AllieBaba]

Wrong modbert. I am not going to research the Shah of Iran and let you hijack the thread for your own personal "gotchas". This is about a pattern of attacks on America. Stick to the subject please.

Yeah, why go outside your comfort zone and learn uncomfortable truths that you're not ready to face about our actions overseas? You want to talk about "patterns of attacks on America" supposedly yet you don't want to research the why behind one of the attacks. All you want to do is demonize Islam.

I don't know how you wrap your mind around that logic.

"This thread is about a pattern of attacks on America. But I refuse to look up why America was attacked one of the times I mentioned."

It's immature to simply say "look up so and so" without providing any statement as to WHY you expect a person to look them up.

Make your fucking stupid point, then support it with a link. Or use quotes from the link to make your point. But to just tell people to look something up, and expect them to know why they're doing it and what point they're supposed to absorb is idiotic and juvenile. It's evidence you don't know what the hell you're talking about, or how to debate like a reasonable human being.

But we knew that.

 

[AllieBaba]

"I think we'd all be more interested in looking at [violence of other religions] and looking at life of Moses and what the Old Testament teaches if Jews [and Christians] were flying planes into skyscrapers, shouting 'Allahu akbar,' slaughtering thousands of innocent Americans."
Ann Coulter, 11-26-02

"The little darlings brandish placards with typical Religion of Peace slogans, such as 'Behead Those Who Insult Islam,' 'Europe, you will pay, extermination is on the way,' and 'Butcher those who mock Islam.' They warn Europe of their own impending 9/11 with sighs that say 'Europe: Your 9/11 will come'- which is ironic, because they almost had me convinced the Jews were behind the 9/11 attack."
Ann Coulter, 2-08-06

Do you have an opinion, too? I would gladly hear it.
The "Fuck them" mentality of Alliebaba or RtySeargent alikes is made out of a false premise. You're only fighting a bunch of thousand Taliban-AlKaida mix.
NYT said, 3.000 full-time fighters in 2007 in Afghanistan.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/30/world/asia/30afghan.html?_r=1
Probably the Taliban-AlKaidas don't get material or human support by more then 20.000 people from world, the whole affair -so well termed - asymetric not involving nation states.

Convenient to the thread title, a War against Islam is a total different level. Not the small-scale affair you're currently dealing with and you already have problems with.

Fuck you.

Oh, and your post doesn't make sense. Try re-writing it in English.

 

[Modbert]

It's immature to simply say "look up so and so" without providing any statement as to WHY you expect a person to look them up.

Make your fucking stupid point, then support it with a link. Or use quotes from the link to make your point. But to just tell people to look something up, and expect them to know why they're doing it and what point they're supposed to absorb is idiotic and juvenile. It's evidence you don't know what the hell you're talking about, or how to debate like a reasonable human being.

But we knew that.

Except I did say why Chanel should look it up. You're ignoring that part.

Of course, I noticed you never got back to me with some snide remark after I posted the OT quote. What's wrong Allie?