article 1 section 8

[onecut39]

This is a question for the strict constitutionalists who believe we take the constitution literally, exactly as written.

Section 8 of Article 1 in known as the "enumerated powers" section. Here is where the various powers granted the congress are spelled out. The first article in that section is quoted, verbatim, below.

Section 8

1: The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

Taking that literally, strictly as written, how does that limit the power of congress to legislate on any social program it chooses so long as it provides for the "general welfare"?

It is quite simple. The founders were educated and very literate. How can you interpret that any other way? Remember though, you are not supposed to interpret, you are to take it literally.

 

[asaratis]

The current day definition of "welfare" was not in use when the founding fathers wrote our constitution.

It is that simple.

 

[DiamondDave]

The general welfare OF THE UNITED STATES.. as in the union.. not each and every individual and their personal needs...

Taking the statement completely, it is easy to understand

 

[slackjawed]

This is a question for the strict constitutionalists who believe we take the constitution literally, exactly as written.

Section 8 of Article 1 in known as the "enumerated powers" section. Here is where the various powers granted the congress are spelled out. The first article in that section is quoted, verbatim, below.

Section 8

1: The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States[/B]; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

Taking that literally, strictly as written, how does that limit the power of congress to legislate on any social program it chooses so long as it provides for the "general welfare"?

It is quite simple. The founders were educated and very literate. How can you interpret that any other way? Remember though, you are not supposed to interpret, you are to take it literally.

without interpeting, i think the entire phrase has to be taken in whole, not picking two words. With no interpetation, it appears the document intended that the general welfare of the entire nation is the meaning, not of individual citizens.

 

[Wacky Quacky]

That's the power to tax, and not a declaration that it's the government's responsibility to make sure nobody hurts themselves.

 

[SniperFire]

This is a question for the strict constitutionalists who believe we take the constitution literally, exactly as written.

Section 8 of Article 1 in known as the "enumerated powers" section. Here is where the various powers granted the congress are spelled out. The first article in that section is quoted, verbatim, below.

Section 8

1: The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

Taking that literally, strictly as written, how does that limit the power of congress to legislate on any social program it chooses so long as it provides for the "general welfare"?

It is quite simple. The founders were educated and very literate. How can you interpret that any other way? Remember though, you are not supposed to interpret, you are to take it literally.

If you were learned and educated, you would know the historical reference to 'general welfare' did not mean handouts to welfare moms to spit out more bastard children.

 

[SniperFire]

OP is getting his ignit ass handed to him on this one.

LOL

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

This is a question for the strict constitutionalists who believe we take the constitution literally, exactly as written.

Section 8 of Article 1 in known as the "enumerated powers" section. Here is where the various powers granted the congress are spelled out. The first article in that section is quoted, verbatim, below.

Section 8

1: The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

Taking that literally, strictly as written, how does that limit the power of congress to legislate on any social program it chooses so long as it provides for the "general welfare"?

It is quite simple. The founders were educated and very literate. How can you interpret that any other way? Remember though, you are not supposed to interpret, you are to take it literally.

this (below) is what passes for intelligent discussion around here...

.

The current day definition of "welfare" was not in use when the founding fathers wrote our constitution.

It is that simple.

 

[Dick Tuck]

The current day definition of "welfare" was not in use when the founding fathers wrote our constitution.

It is that simple.

It means the same thing now as it did then. The general welfare clause means that congress can pass laws for what it determines to be the pubic good.

Alexander Hamilton, Report on Manufactures

The terms "general Welfare" were doubtless intended to signify more than was expressed or imported in those which Preceded; otherwise numerous exigencies incident to the affairs of a Nation would have been left without a provision. The phrase is as comprehensive as any that could have been used; because it was not fit that the constitutional authority of the Union, to appropriate its revenues shou'd have been restricted within narrower limits than the "General Welfare" and because this necessarily embraces a vast variety of particulars, which are susceptible neither of specification nor of definition.

It is therefore of necessity left to the discretion of the National Legislature, to pronounce, upon the objects, which concern the general Welfare, and for which under that description, an appropriation of money is requisite and proper. And there seems to be no room for a doubt that whatever concerns the general Interests of learning of Agriculture of Manufactures and of Commerce are within the sphere of the national Councils as far as regards an application of Money.

 

[DontBeStupid]

The general welfare OF THE UNITED STATES.. as in the union.. not each and every individual and their personal needs...

Taking the statement completely, it is easy to understand

Have to agree with Dave on this one. Strictly speaking, I've always thought it was meant to be the welfare of the country, and not the welfare of the citizenry. Same with defense, of the country, but it's not the Government's job to defend me at all times from all threats.

 

[WillowTree]

The current day definition of "welfare" was not in use when the founding fathers wrote our constitution.

It is that simple.

Yes when they wrote that they weren't passing out free phones, free homes, free cars, a monthly check and free contraception.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Houston, we have a problem.

Topic failure eminent

 

[onecut39]

The current day definition of "welfare" was not in use when the founding fathers wrote our constitution.

It is that simple.

The dictionary definition is the same simply meaning well being. Social programs contribute to that well being and you look rather silly if you try to say the founders did not know that definition.

 

[PoliticalChic]

This is a question for the strict constitutionalists who believe we take the constitution literally, exactly as written.

Section 8 of Article 1 in known as the "enumerated powers" section. Here is where the various powers granted the congress are spelled out. The first article in that section is quoted, verbatim, below.

Section 8

1: The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

Taking that literally, strictly as written, how does that limit the power of congress to legislate on any social program it chooses so long as it provides for the "general welfare"?

It is quite simple. The founders were educated and very literate. How can you interpret that any other way? Remember though, you are not supposed to interpret, you are to take it literally.

1.The general welfare has been interpreted to mean something that benefits all, not one particular segment of society. That, in itself, sets parameters.

2. As for the specifics of Article I, section 8,...


a. Hamilton’s view was that this clause gave Congress the power to tax and spend for the general welfare, whatsoever they decide that might be.

b. William Drayton, in 1828, came down on the side of Madison, Jefferson and others, pointing out that if Hamilton was correct, what point would there have been to enumerate Congresses’ other powers? If Congress wished to do anything it was not authorized to do, it could accomplish it via taxing and spending. He said, "If Congress can determine what constitutes the general welfare and can appropriate money for its advancement, where is the limitation to carrying into execution whatever can be effected by money?" 'Charity Not a Proper Function of the American Government' by Walter E. Williams


3. Until 1937, the Congress of the United States conducted its business within the boundaries of seventeen enumerated powers granted under Article I Section 8 of the United States Constitution; these powers defined clearly the areas within which Congress could enact legislation including the allocation of funds and levying of taxes. Anything not set down in the enumerated powers was considered outside the purview of the national government and hence, a matter for the states. There were occasional challenges to the concept but it was not until Franklin Roosevelt's new deal that it was attacked in deadly earnestness.



4. "...how does that limit the power of congress to legislate on any social program it chooses...."
I'm going to guess that you believe in what is known as "a living Constitution."

Madison did not.
"If not only the means but the objects are unlimited, the parchment [the Constitution] should be thrown into the fire at once." Brant, Irving “The Fourth President - A Life of James Madison,” p. 257.

 

[onecut39]

The current day definition of "welfare" was not in use when the founding fathers wrote our constitution.

It is that simple.

Yes when they wrote that they weren't passing out free phones, free homes, free cars, a monthly check and free contraception.

One can say they dislike the programs being passed, it is extremely difficult to say the congress lacks constitutional authority to pass them.

 

[SniperFire]

Just ask the guy who wrote it:

"I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on the objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents."


- James Madison

 

[DiamondDave]

The current day definition of "welfare" was not in use when the founding fathers wrote our constitution.

It is that simple.

The dictionary definition is the same simply meaning well being. Social programs contribute to that well being and you look rather silly if you try to say the founders did not know that definition.

OF THE UNITED STATES....

The founders would and could have wrote specifically if it mean each individual's personal upkeep

 

[Dick Tuck]

Just ask the guy who wrote it:

"I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on the objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents."


- James Madison

Madison opposed it. It was passed anyway, by the other Federalists, including Hamilton and Washington. The winners words are the ones that matter.

 

[onecut39]

The general welfare OF THE UNITED STATES.. as in the union.. not each and every individual and their personal needs...

Taking the statement completely, it is easy to understand

Have to agree with Dave on this one. Strictly speaking, I've always thought it was meant to be the welfare of the country, and not the welfare of the citizenry. Same with defense, of the country, but it's not the Government's job to defend me at all times from all threats.

How does one separate citizens and country? You can't have one without the other. No program can benefit the country and not benefit the citizens. To think otherwise is silly.

When one passes a program to facilitate clean air what benefits? The country? I did not know a country had to breathe.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

This is a question for the strict constitutionalists who believe we take the constitution literally, exactly as written.

Section 8 of Article 1 in known as the "enumerated powers" section. Here is where the various powers granted the congress are spelled out. The first article in that section is quoted, verbatim, below.

Section 8

1: The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

Taking that literally, strictly as written, how does that limit the power of congress to legislate on any social program it chooses so long as it provides for the "general welfare"?

It is quite simple. The founders were educated and very literate. How can you interpret that any other way? Remember though, you are not supposed to interpret, you are to take it literally.

Look at the abuse now occurring at the expense of those two propositions: general welfare and common defence. Even Hamilton would probably look away in disgust.