Arpaio in trouble for abusing Latinos

[Navy1960]

There has been a lot of talk around here lately , the feeling I get is that residents here a little tired of all the negative attention and the sheer number of office holders both locally and nationally from our state that have brought negative attention to Arizona. Pearce deserved to lose, he treated his office like he was annointed to it and his actions have cost the state a lot in terms of money lost and negative attention . Our state is last in education or near the bottom, close to the top in home foreclosure, deep in debt, and here we stand in the national spotlight as a result of the actions of many elected officials trying to legislate or enforce things they were clearly NOT given license to do. Our state needs many things and absent Senators who could care less about Arizona, a Gov. that is tied up in the Supreme Court, a Sheriff tied up in investigation, does not help.

What your state needs the most is to keep out illegal aliens. The above screed is nothing but politically motivated bullshit from a liberal who supports illegal immigration. Liberals always have a million reasons why the problem if illegal immigration can't be addressed.

First, If you wish to call me a liberal then by all means be my guest, however that would make this old Republican in very good company, then again, by today's standards in the Republican party the word liberal applies to anyone who disagrees with them. That said, nothing in my post mentioned the word illegal immigration or my support or non support of it. In fact if you had taken the time to not label me then you would have found out that my position is the following, To suggest that our nation simply rid ourselves of every single person who is illegal is not only nonsense it shows a sheer lack of understanding of this issue at hand. First of all there not many Americans willing to take the jobs that a lot of these illegals tend to work, like in agriculture , picking fruit, etc. So that leaves a decent guest worker program. So here is what I am for when it comes to illegal immigratrion, enforce the laws that we already have on the books, and that responsibility belongs in the hands of the Federal Govt. not Maricopa County, so properly FUND it. Create and manage a good guest worker program, deport ALL criminal illegal aliens. Strengthen the border security and no that does not mean a fence it means actual boots on the ground in conjunction with air assets. Then streamline the immigration system as a whole so that those people who wish to come here can do so in a quick and efficent manner and those who wish to come here and work can also do that and then go home.

 

[Salt Jones]

Arizona is deep in debt and has a huge housing crisis and all this civil litigation and investigations brought on by Sheriff Joe and our Gov. do not help our states budget.

This is really the crux of the problem. Now what I am going to say I cannot provide links to support because it comes from personal experience and discussions with two friends of mine who are ex-cops, two retired Arizona judges, and a slew of defense attorneys that I regularly golfed with when I lived there. So what I am going to say is based upon their collective opinions.

The problem is economic. Arizona is deep in debt and arrests bring money to the state. The more arrests a department makes they more they can argue for increased funding because the more money they are bringing in. That means it's in the cops financial best interests to screw people to the wall as much as possible because it will enhance their jobs prospects, opportunities for promotion, etc. My friends who are cops have flat out told me that what someone is charged with is frequently a decision based upon whether or not the officer thinks they can afford to fight it in court. In other words, if they don't look like they can afford an attorney they are more likely to get arrested for something. It also means they can charge them with flimsy or manufactured evidence because a) they don't think the person will be able to afford to fight it and b) the laws are often written in such a way that the officer's opinion is only slightly less valid than hard evidence. It also means they are less likely to arrest people who look like they can afford a legal defense because they don't want to have too many arrests of theirs get thrown out in court.

For the prosecutors, they get elected and promoted based upon their rate of conviction. The more people they convict the more likely they will keep their job or be promoted. Also, again the more they can argue for funding from the state. So they have a financial incentive to stick as many people for as much as they can.

For the judges; Arizona is one fucked up state. You do not need a law degree or any qualifying criteria to sit on the bench. All you need to do is win the election. Well judges run on being "tough on crime". That means they have a financial incentive to screw as many people to the wall as they possibly can and yes there are people on the bench in Arizona who have absolutely no background in law at all.

For the defense attorneys it creates a hell of a problem because many cases can be successfully fought but doing so costs a shit ton of money. Proving that the police manufactured evidence for example is not an easy thing to do and it's terribly expensive. Well if a defense attorney knows that a client can't afford that, they won't take the case or will simply advise them to plead guilty because it will be cheaper than fighting it.

So what you have is a system where it's in everyone's best interests to screw the citizens who can't afford a defense. It funds the state government, creates arguments for additional funding, and is a ticket to professional advancement and unless you have a lot of cash you are effectively defenseless.

Now when you consider that the median income for Hispanics in Arizona is generally pretty low and that Arizona has a very high population of Hispanics it's going to appear statistically that they are targeted exclusively. Not the case. If you're poor and white, poor and black, poor and green...you're going to get fucked. The key word though is "poor" not "Hispanic".

You are still wrong on the "it's not Hispanics" meme. How many whites are rounded up in the crime sweeps? Why no sweeps in the areas flooded with Canadians who overstay their visas, the areas in far east Mesa and Apache Junction?

 

[BluePhantom]

Why are conservatives so adamant in their defense of a Sheriff so egregiously in violation of the Constitution?

It's very telling.

This is really the crux of the problem. Now what I am going to say I cannot provide links to support because it comes from personal experience and discussions with two friends of mine who are ex-cops, two retired Arizona judges, and a slew of defense attorneys that I regularly golfed with when I lived there. So what I am going to say is based upon their collective opinions.

Nothing.

As your ‘golfing buddies’ defense attorneys would say: ‘it’s antidotal, immaterial, and hearsay.’

Are you under the impression that I am defending Arpaio? Let me clear that up. NOT THE CASE! I agree with Navy1960 that he's a fucking disgrace. But it's not because he is racist. It's because he's part of a corrupt, abusive Arizona judicial system they preys upon the very people they are supposed to be protecting. But they do that not based upon race but upon economics.

 

[Salt Jones]

There has been a lot of talk around here lately , the feeling I get is that residents here a little tired of all the negative attention and the sheer number of office holders both locally and nationally from our state that have brought negative attention to Arizona. Pearce deserved to lose, he treated his office like he was annointed to it and his actions have cost the state a lot in terms of money lost and negative attention . Our state is last in education or near the bottom, close to the top in home foreclosure, deep in debt, and here we stand in the national spotlight as a result of the actions of many elected officials trying to legislate or enforce things they were clearly NOT given license to do. Our state needs many things and absent Senators who could care less about Arizona, a Gov. that is tied up in the Supreme Court, a Sheriff tied up in investigation, does not help.

What your state needs the most is to keep out illegal aliens. The above screed is nothing but politically motivated bullshit from a liberal who supports illegal immigration. Liberals always have a million reasons why the problem if illegal immigration can't be addressed.

First, If you wish to call me a liberal then by all means be my guest, however that would make this old Republican in very good company, then again, by today's standards in the Republican party the word liberal applies to anyone who disagrees with them. That said, nothing in my post mentioned the word illegal immigration or my support or non support of it. In fact if you had taken the time to not label me then you would have found out that my position is the following, To suggest that our nation simply rid ourselves of every single person who is illegal is not only nonsense it shows a sheer lack of understanding of this issue at hand. First of all there not many Americans willing to take the jobs that a lot of these illegals tend to work, like in agriculture , picking fruit, etc. So that leaves a decent guest worker program. So here is what I am for when it comes to illegal immigratrion, enforce the laws that we already have on the books, and that responsibility belongs in the hands of the Federal Govt. not Maricopa County, so properly FUND it. Create and manage a good guest worker program, deport ALL criminal illegal aliens. Strengthen the border security and no that does not mean a fence it means actual boots on the ground in conjunction with air assets. Then streamline the immigration system as a whole so that those people who wish to come here can do so in a quick and efficent manner and those who wish to come here and work can also do that and then go home.

Out of all these illegal immigration crime sweeps Arpiao has conducted and 4 years of Arizona having an Employer sanction law, how many business onwers have had their business licenses suspended or revoked?

Answer: 1. And they had been out of business 6 months prior to the suspension.

 

[Navy1960]

Heres my point for some who did not get it!

permanent reductions. That's equivalent to the entire K-12 budget for this year, or enough money to build the Hoover Dam bypass bridge 14 times over.

This fiscal year's budget of $8.4 billion is 20 percent smaller than the fiscal 2008 budget, which was the spending high point for Arizona.

The state workforce has shrunk 15 percent - a loss of 5,610 jobs.

The most-recent cuts took effect this summer as the fiscal 2012 budget year began. Most notably, the state froze enrollment in a health-insurance program for childless adults as part of a bid to save $500 million in state spending. Like many budget moves, it triggered a lawsuit.


Arizona budget slashing reshapes state


Arizona's true state budget deficit is $2.1 billion, more than triple the $825 million cited by Gov. Jan Brewer and Republicans in the Legislature, a new study estimates.

Tax cuts and spending decisions made in good times have deep implications when the economy heads south, says the report. Short-term fixes that papered over budget deficits have only made the state's fiscal situation worse, "Structurally Unbalanced: Cyclical and Structural Deficits in Arizona" says.
ASU study: Arizona deficit more than triple GOP's claim

When you have all this negative attention heaped upon Arizona by our elected officials and I don't care what party they belong too that have cost this state and still cost this state money, by those officials doing things they were NOT tasked to do in light of the above then those officials are in need of replacement regardless of party liberal or otherwise!!

 

[Navy1960]

What your state needs the most is to keep out illegal aliens. The above screed is nothing but politically motivated bullshit from a liberal who supports illegal immigration. Liberals always have a million reasons why the problem if illegal immigration can't be addressed.

First, If you wish to call me a liberal then by all means be my guest, however that would make this old Republican in very good company, then again, by today's standards in the Republican party the word liberal applies to anyone who disagrees with them. That said, nothing in my post mentioned the word illegal immigration or my support or non support of it. In fact if you had taken the time to not label me then you would have found out that my position is the following, To suggest that our nation simply rid ourselves of every single person who is illegal is not only nonsense it shows a sheer lack of understanding of this issue at hand. First of all there not many Americans willing to take the jobs that a lot of these illegals tend to work, like in agriculture , picking fruit, etc. So that leaves a decent guest worker program. So here is what I am for when it comes to illegal immigratrion, enforce the laws that we already have on the books, and that responsibility belongs in the hands of the Federal Govt. not Maricopa County, so properly FUND it. Create and manage a good guest worker program, deport ALL criminal illegal aliens. Strengthen the border security and no that does not mean a fence it means actual boots on the ground in conjunction with air assets. Then streamline the immigration system as a whole so that those people who wish to come here can do so in a quick and efficent manner and those who wish to come here and work can also do that and then go home.

Out of all these illegal immigration crime sweeps Arpiao has conducted and 4 years of Arizona having an Employer sanction law, how many business onwers have had their business licenses suspended or revoked?

Answer: 1. And they had been out of business 6 months prior to the suspension.

Again Salt, I am of the opinion that immigration is a Federal matter and as such employers who violate the law should be treated no differently and if people wanted this matter fixed rather than perhaps spending 110 Billion a year in Iraq and Afghanistan that money would be better spent on Federal immigration enforcement. A good guest worker program would go a long way in getting rid of those sorts of issues too.

 

[tinydancer]

Arizona is deep in debt and has a huge housing crisis and all this civil litigation and investigations brought on by Sheriff Joe and our Gov. do not help our states budget.

This is really the crux of the problem. Now what I am going to say I cannot provide links to support because it comes from personal experience and discussions with two friends of mine who are ex-cops, two retired Arizona judges, and a slew of defense attorneys that I regularly golfed with when I lived there. So what I am going to say is based upon their collective opinions.

The problem is economic. Arizona is deep in debt and arrests bring money to the state. The more arrests a department makes they more they can argue for increased funding because the more money they are bringing in. That means it's in the cops financial best interests to screw people to the wall as much as possible because it will enhance their jobs prospects, opportunities for promotion, etc. My friends who are cops have flat out told me that what someone is charged with is frequently a decision based upon whether or not the officer thinks they can afford to fight it in court. In other words, if they don't look like they can afford an attorney they are more likely to get arrested for something. It also means they can charge them with flimsy or manufactured evidence because a) they don't think the person will be able to afford to fight it and b) the laws are often written in such a way that the officer's opinion is only slightly less valid than hard evidence. It also means they are less likely to arrest people who look like they can afford a legal defense because they don't want to have too many arrests of theirs get thrown out in court.

For the prosecutors, they get elected and promoted based upon their rate of conviction. The more people they convict the more likely they will keep their job or be promoted. Also, again the more they can argue for funding from the state. So they have a financial incentive to stick as many people for as much as they can.

For the judges; Arizona is one fucked up state. You do not need a law degree or any qualifying criteria to sit on the bench. All you need to do is win the election. Well judges run on being "tough on crime". That means they have a financial incentive to screw as many people to the wall as they possibly can and yes there are people on the bench in Arizona who have absolutely no background in law at all.

For the defense attorneys it creates a hell of a problem because many cases can be successfully fought but doing so costs a shit ton of money. Proving that the police manufactured evidence for example is not an easy thing to do and it's terribly expensive. Well if a defense attorney knows that a client can't afford that, they won't take the case or will simply advise them to plead guilty because it will be cheaper than fighting it.

So what you have is a system where it's in everyone's best interests to screw the citizens who can't afford a defense. It funds the state government, creates arguments for additional funding, and is a ticket to professional advancement and unless you have a lot of cash you are effectively defenseless.

Now when you consider that the median income for Hispanics in Arizona is generally pretty low and that Arizona has a very high population of Hispanics it's going to appear statistically that they are targeted exclusively. Not the case. If you're poor and white, poor and black, poor and green...you're going to get fucked. The key word though is "poor" not "Hispanic".

You are still wrong on the "it's not Hispanics" meme. How many whites are rounded up in the crime sweeps? Why no sweeps in the areas flooded with Canadians who overstay their visas, the areas in far east Mesa and Apache Junction?

ROTF.

A canuck sweep? Oh I can't breathe. No one would turn in a Newf with screech for working in a field in Alabama.



We'd be making everyone sing Gordon Lightfoot and Great Big Sea tunes. Who'd turn anyone in singing the Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald? I've heard a reggae version. Awesome.

 

[bripat9643]

First, If you wish to call me a liberal then by all means be my guest, however that would make this old Republican in very good company, then again, by today's standards in the Republican party the word liberal applies to anyone who disagrees with them. That said, nothing in my post mentioned the word illegal immigration or my support or non support of it. In fact if you had taken the time to not label me then you would have found out that my position is the following, To suggest that our nation simply rid ourselves of every single person who is illegal is not only nonsense it shows a sheer lack of understanding of this issue at hand. First of all there not many Americans willing to take the jobs that a lot of these illegals tend to work, like in agriculture , picking fruit, etc. So that leaves a decent guest worker program. So here is what I am for when it comes to illegal immigratrion, enforce the laws that we already have on the books, and that responsibility belongs in the hands of the Federal Govt. not Maricopa County, so properly FUND it. Create and manage a good guest worker program, deport ALL criminal illegal aliens. Strengthen the border security and no that does not mean a fence it means actual boots on the ground in conjunction with air assets. Then streamline the immigration system as a whole so that those people who wish to come here can do so in a quick and efficent manner and those who wish to come here and work can also do that and then go home.

That's the pap that liberals are always spewing. Of course, they never enforce the border. They don't even deport illegals who are criminals. they don't want a fence because that is a permanent obstacle to illegal immigration. The minute the voters stop looking, "boots on the ground" can be sent home. They can also be told not to do their job.

Here's what we need: A) Deport all illegals currently residing in this country, and B) build a permanent fence along the entire border.

Any claims that it can't be done are simply hogwash. They're excuses from people who don't really want to put an end to illegal immigration.

 

[tinydancer]

I'd like to add the whole immigration policy State side is horrific. I am not condeming nor condoning it. It's beyond nuts.

When I went to the Embassy on another matter in the 90's ( believe it or not I was working visas for a chihuahua to go to Chile, long fun story) one worker was telling an applicant it would take 5 years and over $10,000. to get in.

No wonder people break the law. Now I am not excusing it. Not at all. But I can understand the desperation and the frustration.

What I don't get at all though is the idiocy of taking political positions to the point of outrageous stances both sides of the aisle instead of fixing the fucking problem.....

 

[BluePhantom]

You are still wrong on the "it's not Hispanics" meme. How many whites are rounded up in the crime sweeps? Why no sweeps in the areas flooded with Canadians who overstay their visas, the areas in far east Mesa and Apache Junction?

Yeah I lived around Southern and Higley and my ex lives in Apache Junction so I drove around east Mesa and that area daily. My God are you right. It's such a bitch to get around with all those Canucks walking down the street, waving their red and white flags, singing "Oh Canada!", squirting syrup all over the place, and blabbering away in French. Unfuckingbelievable!

 

[Unkotare]

Again Salt, I am of the opinion that immigration is a Federal matter and as such employers who violate the law should be treated no differently and if people wanted this matter fixed rather than perhaps spending 110 Billion a year in Iraq and Afghanistan that money would be better spent on Federal immigration enforcement.

Do you honestly think government spending works that way?

 

[Cowman]

Louis C.K. is more Mexican(Yes, he's Mexican by nationality and blood) looking than Carlos Mencia(though Mencia is not Mexican), but he'll never be affected in these roundups because he looks more like a white person.

The dude even speaks Spanish as his first language, and he'd still never be targeted... because he's white looking.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRio3Y1lCmQ]Louis C.K. White Mexican[/ame]

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Justice Department reports pattern of civil rights abuses in Arizona Sheriff Joe Arpaio's Maricopa County - latimes.com

Do you honestly think the DoJ threatening to maybe withhold money if he does not change means he is in trouble?

 

[bripat9643]

Louis C.K. is more Mexican(Yes, he's Mexican by nationality and blood) looking than Carlos Mencia(though Mencia is not Mexican), but he'll never be affected in these roundups because he looks more like a white person.

The dude even speaks Spanish as his first language, and he'd still never be targeted... because he's white looking.

Well, yes, that's probably true. See, if a black man robs a bank, the police put out a description of the perp. Part of the description is that he's black. How many Canadian illegal aliens are in this country? You could probably count them on your fingers and toes? How many Mexican illegal aliens are there? 20 million.

So when the crime you're referring to is entering the country illegal, the description of the perp includes ethnicity: Hispanic.

 

[BluePhantom]

Louis C.K. is more Mexican(Yes, he's Mexican by nationality and blood) looking than Carlos Mencia(though Mencia is not Mexican), but he'll never be affected in these roundups because he looks more like a white person.

The dude even speaks Spanish as his first language, and he'd still never be targeted... because he's white looking.

Well, yes, that's probably true. See, if a black man robs a bank, the police put out a description of the perp. Part of the description is that he's black. How many Canadian illegal aliens are in this country? You could probably count them on your fingers and toes? How many Mexican illegal aliens are there? 20 million.

So when the crime you're referring to is entering the country illegal, the description of the perp includes ethnicity: Hispanic.

Well look....I will concede that the vast majority of illegals from Mexico are honest, hard working people who are simply looking for a better life and if I were in their shoes I'd jump the border too. That being said, crime is a problem. And I am not talking about the simple crime of being in the USA illegally (yes that IS a crime). I am talking serious violent crime. When I lived in Phoenix I had to save all three of my children from being kidnapped at least once (my youngest twice) and I lived in a pretty good part of town. I wonder if Salt would like to guess the ethnicity of the guys that tried to grab them....I can assure you, they weren't Canadian.

Yes there are illegal aliens from many different countries aside from Mexico. Yes there are some Canadians that are of a criminal element. But let's be honest...it's nothing NEAR the degree that comes across the Mexican border. For anyone to suggest that Canadians are as big of a problem as Mexicans is a flat out fucking joke. I don't know who they think they are kidding, but it aint me.

Now before everyone flips out and calls me a racist let me reiterate...the vast majority of illegals from Mexico are honest, hard working people who are simply looking for a better life and they get a bad reputation because of the criminal element. But only a completely ignorant dumb fuck or liberal propagandist would deny that criminal element exists. I will let everyone decide for themselves which category Salt belongs to, but my mind is pretty much made up.

 

[Cowman]

Louis C.K. is more Mexican(Yes, he's Mexican by nationality and blood) looking than Carlos Mencia(though Mencia is not Mexican), but he'll never be affected in these roundups because he looks more like a white person.

The dude even speaks Spanish as his first language, and he'd still never be targeted... because he's white looking.

Well, yes, that's probably true. See, if a black man robs a bank, the police put out a description of the perp. Part of the description is that he's black. How many Canadian illegal aliens are in this country? You could probably count them on your fingers and toes? How many Mexican illegal aliens are there? 20 million.

So when the crime you're referring to is entering the country illegal, the description of the perp includes ethnicity: Hispanic.

Except as Louis CK said... there are tons of Mexicans just like him who don't fit the characteristically brown appearance. Yet it's the 'brown' that is targeted. Hispanic doesn't mean brown. And you can tell that by looking around you here in the states.

 

[JDzBrain]

Bullshit...

....The treatment of Hispanic U.S. citizens and legal residents is what started this investigation in June 2008.

I'll tell ya what is bull shit. YES there was an investigation started under the Bush administration. It's lasted 8 months and was DROPPED by Attorney General Michael Mukasey as baseless!

This current bit of stupidity is STRICTLY payback by Janet Napalitano who tried her DAMNEST to get Sheriff Joe and "tent city" shut down when she was governor of Arizona!

Now you can keep posting and re-posting how it started under Bush like that is some kind of evidence of guilt...but it's STILL bull shit. Holder RE-OPENED the investigation in 09 after it had been closed for more than a year.

If ANYONE thinks this any less a political hit job by a man who filed a lawsuit against the state of Arizona for legally passing immigration legislation WITHOUT EVER HAVING EVER READ IT...then you are a FOOL!

The above are documented facts of evidence, not speculation or opinion.

BULL SHIT!!!!

The above are documented statements of allegations...NOT facts!

Facts would be when a jury of your peers CONVICTS YOU on the facts at hand. As yet, the ONLY thing that any court has found against the man is the 9th said his jails were over crowed!

 

[bripat9643]

Well, yes, that's probably true. See, if a black man robs a bank, the police put out a description of the perp. Part of the description is that he's black. How many Canadian illegal aliens are in this country? You could probably count them on your fingers and toes? How many Mexican illegal aliens are there? 20 million.

So when the crime you're referring to is entering the country illegal, the description of the perp includes ethnicity: Hispanic.

Except as Louis CK said... there are tons of Mexicans just like him who don't fit the characteristically brown appearance. Yet it's the 'brown' that is targeted. Hispanic doesn't mean brown. And you can tell that by looking around you here in the states.

That's just plain bullshit. Poorer Mexicans are the kind that tend to cross the border illegally, and they are the kind who tend to have the most ethnically Mexican appearance. Blond blue eyed Mexicans tend to be in the upper class and have good jobs. They live in Mexico city, not Juarez or Tijuana. They don't come over the border in the back of produce trucks.

 

[Cowman]

Well, yes, that's probably true. See, if a black man robs a bank, the police put out a description of the perp. Part of the description is that he's black. How many Canadian illegal aliens are in this country? You could probably count them on your fingers and toes? How many Mexican illegal aliens are there? 20 million.

So when the crime you're referring to is entering the country illegal, the description of the perp includes ethnicity: Hispanic.

Except as Louis CK said... there are tons of Mexicans just like him who don't fit the characteristically brown appearance. Yet it's the 'brown' that is targeted. Hispanic doesn't mean brown. And you can tell that by looking around you here in the states.

That's just plain bullshit. Poorer Mexicans are the kind that tend to cross the border illegally, and they are the kind who tend to have the most ethnically Mexican appearance. Blond blue eyed Mexicans tend to be in the upper class and have good jobs. They live in Mexico city, not Juarez or Tijuana.

Well thanks for providing a stronger point for me. You target those "most ethnically Mexican in appearance".

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TG4f9zR5yzY]Being White[/ame]

 

[bripat9643]

Except as Louis CK said... there are tons of Mexicans just like him who don't fit the characteristically brown appearance. Yet it's the 'brown' that is targeted. Hispanic doesn't mean brown. And you can tell that by looking around you here in the states.

That's just plain bullshit. Poorer Mexicans are the kind that tend to cross the border illegally, and they are the kind who tend to have the most ethnically Mexican appearance. Blond blue eyed Mexicans tend to be in the upper class and have good jobs. They live in Mexico city, not Juarez or Tijuana.

Well thanks for providing a stronger point for me. You target those "most ethnically Mexican in appearance".

I don't target anyone. However, if you are checking people to see if they are legal residents of this country, they are likely to be Mexican, and they are as easy to identify as people from China.