Army private 'ordered to pose'

Discussion in 'Middle East - General' started by nycflasher, May 13, 2004.

  1. nycflasher
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    nycflasher Active Member

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    ...The interview was taped Tuesday at Fort Bragg, North Carolina, where England, a military reservist from West Virginia, met with one of a team of Denver lawyers who have volunteered to take her case.

    Asked whether worse things happened than those already seen on the photos, she said yes but declined to elaborate.

    She said her superiors praised the photos and "just told us, 'Hey, you're doing great, keep it up."'

    England faces a military court-martial that includes charges such as conspiracy to maltreat prisoners and assault consummated by battery, and could face punishment ranging from a reprimand to more than 15 years in prison.

    No date has been set for a hearing in the case.

    Six other soldiers from the 372nd Military Police Company are also charged. One, Spc. Jeremy C. Sivits of Hyndman, Pennsylvania, will face a court-martial in Baghdad next week.

    After meeting with England, attorney Giorgio Ra'Shadd said she shouldn't be used as a scapegoat by the military.

    "You don't see my client doing anything abusive at all," Ra'Shadd said in an interview. "I think she was ordered to smile."

    Ra'Shadd said England was pulled into the situations by intelligence agents who subverted the military chain of command. He said they used England to humiliate the men being photographed so they could show the pictures to more important prisoners and threaten them with the same treatment.

    "The spooks took over the jail," said Ra'Shadd, a former Army lawyer.

    source

    -----Hopefully, this all leads to a select group of poor leaders who made some questionable decisions re: the interogation of prisoners. Similarly, we have rogue groups of prison guards here in the US. See recent Colorado case.---Flasher
     
  2. st8_o_mind
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    I think we will see a lot of this as the legal process moves forward. There will be charges and counter charges. It will be interesting to see how it plays out. The Nuremburg principals embodied into law that the "just following orders" defense is not a justification. The USCMJ goes furthhur saying it is the responsibility of soldiers to refuse an unlawful order.

    But there seems to be a lot of gray area. Are the CIA or civilian contractors to the CIA and DIA in the chain of command?

    The chain of command issues raises two seperate but related questions. One, who knew and when did they know. The second is more difficult. Who SHOULD have know but either choose not to, or presided over a dysfunctional chain of command that allowed the grotesque abuses we are reading about to happen.

    Should Rummy resign? General Myers? The Commander in Chief. However you answer those questions, I think its important that the military not scapegoat the troops in the field and avoid the tough questions for those higher up on the military and political food chain.
     
  3. nycflasher
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    nycflasher Active Member

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    I think that sums it up well. For the first time in our history, perhaps, we are so scared as a nation that many are willing to allow torture in order to achieve our intelligence goals.

    Isn't torture inhumane?
    Doesn't it go against the very principles our society was based on?

    Please... discuss.
     
  4. nycflasher
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    nycflasher Active Member

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    From what I've read, the guy appointed to lead the investigation(forget his name) is a stand up guy and was given full access and freedom from reprisal(however that works) so hopefully the truth comes out.
     
  5. DKSuddeth
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    DKSuddeth Senior Member

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    I find it odd that she is unwilling to divulge the name of the higher ranks who ordered her to do this.
     
  6. JIHADTHIS
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    JIHADTHIS Active Member

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    Maybe she's scared of being a "rat"?
     
  7. st8_o_mind
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    The questions you raised are important. Some will argue that what happened was the result of an isolated group and they do not reflect the morality of Western society. Others will argue that what happended is the reality of warfare, an ugly reality that we choose not to think about.

    Personally, I am not willing to accept either proposition at this point. If we do, there will be no need to ask the tough questions about the chain of command and civilian leadership. It may be that after a full and impartial investigation we will generally conclude that one or both of those propositions are true, but we need to ask the tough questions first.

    But I want to focus on something else you wrote for a second. You wrote:
    "perhaps we are so scared as nation that many are willing to allow torture in order to achieve our intelligence goals." (I fixed your spelling)

    I am convinced that has happened in Iraq (and other detention facilities) is 100% contrary to our national interest. I've opposed the war in Iraq from the beginning for a lot of reasons as other readers of these boards know. I've said before that the Iraq war is a distraction from the war on terror, diverts resources from the war on terror, alienates our allies in the war on terror, and creates the very thing we're fighting...more terrorists.

    Having said (written?) that, I don't support simply "pulling out,"
    "cutting and running," or "declaring victory and leaving" - however folks put it. In my humble opinion, we have to finish the job.

    But wether you supported the war in Iraq or not, finishing the job just got a hell of a lot harder.
     
  8. nycflasher
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    nycflasher Active Member

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    Missed that part of the article. Maybe if they put a bag over her head and shove a lightbulbup her ass they can get that name out of here.:p:
     
  9. KLSuddeth
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    why do you find this odd?

    Im asking out of simple curiousity - not tauntingly
     
  10. NewGuy
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    I don't understand anyone going the whole 9 yards by taking a stand and yet not divulging all info necessary. Where is the comitment?
     

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