Arizona To Require American Flags In Classrooms

GotZoom

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Apr 20, 2005
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PHOENIX — Rebuffing concerns of government indoctrination, a legislative panel voted Tuesday to require a U.S. flag in every classroom in public, charter, community college and state university classroom to "instill patriotism." And the banners must be manufactured in this country. The bill expands on current law, which says only that each public school must have one flag, presumably on a pole outside. This legislation says each classroom also will have at least one flag, at least two feet high by three feet wide. And the measure extends the requirement to state-financed universities and community colleges that currently have no such mandate. "We live in a time, I think, we need to recognize our heritage," said Rep. Russell Pearce, R-Mesa, the bill's sponsor. "We need to recognize how lucky we are in this nation." Nothing in the measure approved by the House Committee on Universities, Community Colleges and Technology mandates students actually pledge allegiance to the flag. That leaves intact existing law, which says only public schools — those teaching kindergarten through 12th grade — must set aside a specific time each day for students who want to recite the pledge. But Pearce said the absence of a flag at all is unacceptable. "These are public-funded schools for our public-funded children," he said. "It's appropriate that we instill patriotism at our public institutions." Pearce said the measure follows the refusal of University of Arizona President Peter Likins to honor a request by a student to put a flag in every classroom. Likins said that's true, but not because of lack of patriotism. He said university classrooms, unlike those in public schools, are left unattended and unlocked for many hours each day. That's why professors don't leave books or computers in classrooms, the way they are left in public schools. "Whatever we leave in a classroom may not be there in the morning," he said. Likins said that if the Legislature mandates the flags, he will have no choice but to comply. Rep. David Bradley, D-Tucson, said he appreciates patriotism, citing his own eight years of service in the Navy. "I just don't think you can legislate patriotism," he said. "It has to come from inside their hearts and minds. For us to say, 'You will do this,' has the stench of another era." He explained later he was thinking specifically of Nazi Germany's "programmed loyalty" policies. But House Majority Leader Steve Tully, R-Phoenix, said that is a false premise. He recalled how when he went to school every student said the Pledge of Allegiance every day "and no one became a Nazi or a fascist or a communist." But Rep. Ted Downing, D-Tucson, said patriotism is not like religion, where someone saying eight "Hail Marys" may be more penitent that someone who says only one. "We could fill the United States with flags. That wouldn't make us any more patriotic than if we had only one flag," he said. Pearce disagreed. "Right after 9/11, everybody had a flag flying," he said. "I think it does instill patriotism." Pearce said public schools can afford the cost of flags for each of their classrooms. As for universities and community colleges, he said he plans to add money to their budgets to comply with the measure, which now goes to the full House.

http://www.azstarnet.com/altsn/snredesign/relatedarticles/115962
 
If I remember correctly there was always an American flag in our classrooms when I was in grade school and up in California. Every morning we had to say the Pledge of Allegiance to it. I assumed all classrooms already had flags...
 
GotZoom said:
And the banners must be manufactured in this country.

An American flag made in America? No such beast exists.


Personally, I think flags are in correlation with patriotism, not its causation.
As Rep. Russell Pearce said, "Right after 9/11, everybody had a flag flying." It wasn't because of the sudden appearance of flags that everyone suddenly became patriotic, it was September 11th that did it. The flags were only there because everyone was already patriotic. An unpatriotic person is not going to hang or appreiciate a flag, and I doubt having one in the classroom will change anything. From my experience, it will be hung in a dark corner where no one will notice it because they're too busy in class.
 
Mr.Conley said:
An American flag made in America? No such beast exists.


Personally, I think flags are in correlation with patriotism, not its causation.
As Rep. Russell Pearce said, "Right after 9/11, everybody had a flag flying." It wasn't because of the sudden appearance of flags that everyone suddenly became patriotic, it was September 11th that did it. The flags were only there because everyone was already patriotic. An unpatriotic person is not going to hang or appreiciate a flag, and I doubt having one in the classroom will change anything. From my experience, it will be hung in a dark corner where no one will notice it because they're too busy in class.

If no one notices it, its no problem. They can hang up up right next to the cross.
 
theHawk said:
If I remember correctly there was always an American flag in our classrooms when I was in grade school and up in California. Every morning we had to say the Pledge of Allegiance to it. I assumed all classrooms already had flags...

Wow! It's a miracle you didn't grow up to be a Nazi. :rolleyes: ;)
 
This sounds like a great idea...let's waste money buying flags instead of quality teachers. Last I checked, school is supposed to educate, not indoctrinate.
 
liberalogic said:
This sounds like a great idea...let's waste money buying flags instead of quality teachers. Last I checked, school is supposed to educate, not indoctrinate.
Actually they were formed for just that reason, to indoctrinate:

http://www.nd.edu/~rbarger/www7/ord17857.html
THE LAND ORDINANCE OF 1785 AND NORTHWEST ORDINANCE OF 1787

During colonial times, schooling was left up to each of the colonies individually. With the many different religions and ways of life, schooling was difficult to maintain and centralize. The New England Colonies focused on compulsory public maintainence (1). They wanted all capable children to attend school to be educated to become good citizens. The Middle Colonies policies were that of parochial education (2). Schools were primarily for educating the children with powerful minds to become ministers, priests, or hold good offices. The Southern Colonies, on the other hand, didnt really have much in the line of compulsory education because of the ruralness of these areas. Most education in the south consisted of apprenticeships and the like.

In an effort to consolidate schools and make education mandatory, Congress enacted the Land Ordinance of 1785. This ordinance set aside what was known as Section Sixteen in every township in the new Western Territory for the maintenance of public schools. It also allotted section number 29 for the purpose of religion and no more than two townships for a University. The separation of church and state was visible by now with the two entities being in different areas. Public schools were organized to corral the best minds for training for public leadership.

Two years later came the Northwest Ordinance of 1787. This ordinance provided land in the Great Lakes and Ohio Valley regions for settlement. (It eventually broke into five states: Michigan, Indiana, Wisconsin, Ohio, and Illinois). Of particular interest is Article 3 of the ordinance, which reads in part:

Religion, morality, and knowledge being necessary to good
government and the happiness of mankind, schools and the
means of education shall forever be encouraged.

The point of this document is that education is necessary to become a good citizen and to have a strong government. Children will be encouraged to go to school, however religion is not specifically to be part of the curriculum. Schools then began to form everywhere over the next one-hundred plus years. Instead of township appointed teachers, they were subsidized to an extent by the government, and the rest by state taxes. Schools began teaching more that just religion, reading, and spelling. Sciences were part of the new curriculum. Thus, the federal government was able to create a public school system furnished to all children, especially in the new and ever growing West.

References

1. Encyclopedia of American History, Vol. 2, pp. 395-96.

2. ditto #1.

Prepared by Kevin VanZant
 
Kathianne said:
Actually they were formed for just that reason, to indoctrinate:

http://www.nd.edu/~rbarger/www7/ord17857.html

However it was during that time period, I think it has evolved into something a bit different. We go to school to broaden our perspective of the world around us. We don't go there to be told to be good Americans, or at least we shouldn't, even if that was the philosophy in 1787.
 
liberalogic said:
However it was during that time period, I think it has evolved into something a bit different. We go to school to broaden our perspective of the world around us. We don't go there to be told to be good Americans, or at least we shouldn't, even if that was the philosophy in 1787.
You're crazy----kids need to at least have an idea how to be a good citizen.
 
Sounds normal to me........Was like this back in the day.

The fact they are having to make a law for it shows how fucked up we are now.
 
I’d hang it in my classroom upside down until the law was repealed then I’d hang it right side up. ;)
You are too stupid to teach.......enough brainwashed kids already.

Now what's Biden running on............Oh yeah........we are going to tax the shit out of you and America Sucks....

Nice bro........real nice........what do you do for an encore........kill babies.........
 

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