Arizona columnist gets it right on the nose

[Annie]

You may have a point, I don't know if we're really speaking of the same people. I guess my tendency is to think that some guy that comes over a thousand miles to work as a busboy to send money home to Mexico is unlikely to be the type to kill a farmer. However, the issue of a porous border remains the same, it's not safe and not legal. It's the Feds job to secure, but for nearly 30 years administrations of both parties have ignored it. Good for AZ and I'm hoping other states will do the same.

Problem being that we can't sort out the would-be busboy from the drug hooligan. In fact, the would-be busboy is now the scapegoat and, as often as not, the target of the hoodlums or even coerced into being a drug mule as the price of passage.

Indeed, which is why the fed must do their job. That border needs to be closed.

 

[Oddball]

You may have a point, I don't know if we're really speaking of the same people. I guess my tendency is to think that some guy that comes over a thousand miles to work as a busboy to send money home to Mexico is unlikely to be the type to kill a farmer. However, the issue of a porous border remains the same, it's not safe and not legal. It's the Feds job to secure, but for nearly 30 years administrations of both parties have ignored it. Good for AZ and I'm hoping other states will do the same.

Problem being that we can't sort out the would-be busboy from the drug hooligan. In fact, the would-be busboy is now the scapegoat and, as often as not, the target of the hoodlums or even coerced into being a drug mule as the price of passage.

Indeed, which is why the fed must do their job. That border needs to be closed.

All that does is up the violence ante.

The problem with the border is the symptom, not the disease.

 

[Modbert]

End the War on Drugs, make punishments more harsh for those who hire illegals. Deport any illegals who are in jail.

Problem goes a long way to being solved.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

It wouldn't if the family went along with the illegal who went back and followed the law.

That's a value judgment that they make.

True, but it's still too big of a blow, and too large of an expense in manpower and dollars, to deport 'em all.

DC ignored the problem for waaaay too long, and actually pandered to the problem, in order for that to be a viable solution. The numbers are, by many orders of magnitude, too large for it to be realistic.

Yet, none of the amnesty will curtail the violence, which is being perpetrated by the drug gangs.

And if you think it's bad in Arizona, it's next to Armageddon in El Paso/Juarez, where the kidnapping and murder rates, respectively, are off the charts.

really? who cares? I don't think it affects most people. I got an idea---people should move.

 

[Luissa]

This law is no way to solve the problem.
If they want a to make a small dent in it, they should start throwing the people who hire illegals in jail. They won't come if they can't find a job.

That would address the issue of most illegals I'm familiar with, not the violent though. It's the border, pure and simple.

You are not going to solve the problem with the violents ones too much either. If they are drug smugglers, they will just keep coming as long as they have someone to sell to. If you arrest one, five more will replace them. Whatever you do on the border for smugglers would just be like a band aid on a gun shot wound.
And the biggest thing in my opinion they could do to help stop smugglers is make marijuana legal. If it is legal, we don't need to smuggle it in, we can support our own marijuana industry.

 

[Annie]

This law is no way to solve the problem.
If they want a to make a small dent in it, they should start throwing the people who hire illegals in jail. They won't come if they can't find a job.

That would address the issue of most illegals I'm familiar with, not the violent though. It's the border, pure and simple.

You are not going to solve the problem with the violents ones too much either. If they are drug smugglers, they will just keep coming as long as they have someone to sell to. If you arrest one, five more will replace them. Whatever you do on the border for smugglers would just be like a band aid on a gun shot wound.
And the biggest thing in my opinion they could do to help stop smugglers is make marijuana legal. If it is legal, we don't need to smuggle it in, we can support our own marijuana industry.

I'll not argue that, never thought grass should be illegal. Disagree with the border though, too easy and much too dangerous not just regarding drugs. That is the feds job and they've all failed to address it.

 

[Luissa]

This law is no way to solve the problem.
If they want a to make a small dent in it, they should start throwing the people who hire illegals in jail. They won't come if they can't find a job.

have you been reading??? numbskull,, what part of drug runners don't want jobs do you not get?????



here's an idea. withhold any and all compensation from congress til they fix the borders or tell them to sit down and stfu and let Arizona take care of the problem..

I am not talking about drug smugglers, you moron. If I was talking about drug smugglers, I would have mentioned them. I was talking about undocumented workers, please keep up.
And this new law will do NOTHING to stop drug trade, but you are too much of an idiot to get that.

 

[mudwhistle]

You may have a point, I don't know if we're really speaking of the same people. I guess my tendency is to think that some guy that comes over a thousand miles to work as a busboy to send money home to Mexico is unlikely to be the type to kill a farmer. However, the issue of a porous border remains the same, it's not safe and not legal. It's the Feds job to secure, but for nearly 30 years administrations of both parties have ignored it. Good for AZ and I'm hoping other states will do the same.

Problem being that we can't sort out the would-be busboy from the drug hooligan. In fact, the would-be busboy is now the scapegoat and, as often as not, the target of the hoodlums or even coerced into being a drug mule as the price of passage.

Well obviously nothing was getting done. Obama and the Democrats were ignoring the war that was taking place in Texas and Arizona....so the locals got fed up and did something.

Too bad it pissed those Dems off.

Guess they could have done what they did in New Orleans and waited for Federal help......that never would come.

 

[Luissa]

That would address the issue of most illegals I'm familiar with, not the violent though. It's the border, pure and simple.

You are not going to solve the problem with the violents ones too much either. If they are drug smugglers, they will just keep coming as long as they have someone to sell to. If you arrest one, five more will replace them. Whatever you do on the border for smugglers would just be like a band aid on a gun shot wound.
And the biggest thing in my opinion they could do to help stop smugglers is make marijuana legal. If it is legal, we don't need to smuggle it in, we can support our own marijuana industry.

I'll not argue that, never thought grass should be illegal. Disagree with the border though, too easy and much too dangerous not just regarding drugs. That is the feds job and they've all failed to address it.

Anything you do on the border will never stop the drug smugglers, they will just find a new way in, something they have proven everytime.

 

[Annie]

You are not going to solve the problem with the violents ones too much either. If they are drug smugglers, they will just keep coming as long as they have someone to sell to. If you arrest one, five more will replace them. Whatever you do on the border for smugglers would just be like a band aid on a gun shot wound.
And the biggest thing in my opinion they could do to help stop smugglers is make marijuana legal. If it is legal, we don't need to smuggle it in, we can support our own marijuana industry.

I'll not argue that, never thought grass should be illegal. Disagree with the border though, too easy and much too dangerous not just regarding drugs. That is the feds job and they've all failed to address it.

Anything you do on the border will never stop the drug smugglers, they will just find a new way in, something they have proven everytime.

Then they will be dealing with others armed as themselves, not farmers and families. the border can be closed or at least made much less porous and much more dangerous for those crossing.

 

[Luissa]

You may have a point, I don't know if we're really speaking of the same people. I guess my tendency is to think that some guy that comes over a thousand miles to work as a busboy to send money home to Mexico is unlikely to be the type to kill a farmer. However, the issue of a porous border remains the same, it's not safe and not legal. It's the Feds job to secure, but for nearly 30 years administrations of both parties have ignored it. Good for AZ and I'm hoping other states will do the same.

Problem being that we can't sort out the would-be busboy from the drug hooligan. In fact, the would-be busboy is now the scapegoat and, as often as not, the target of the hoodlums or even coerced into being a drug mule as the price of passage.

Well obviously nothing was getting done. Obama and the Democrats were ignoring the war that was taking place in Texas and Arizona....so they got fed up and did something.

Too bad it pissed those Dems off.

Bush ignored the problem also, look at how well that wall is working.
And the only thing that will stop the war, is stopping the War on Drugs, and the CIA etc will never let that happen. This all started with Nixon, so if you want to blame anyone, blame him.

 

[Oddball]

You may have a point, I don't know if we're really speaking of the same people. I guess my tendency is to think that some guy that comes over a thousand miles to work as a busboy to send money home to Mexico is unlikely to be the type to kill a farmer. However, the issue of a porous border remains the same, it's not safe and not legal. It's the Feds job to secure, but for nearly 30 years administrations of both parties have ignored it. Good for AZ and I'm hoping other states will do the same.

Problem being that we can't sort out the would-be busboy from the drug hooligan. In fact, the would-be busboy is now the scapegoat and, as often as not, the target of the hoodlums or even coerced into being a drug mule as the price of passage.

Well obviously nothing was getting done. Obama and the Democrats were ignoring the war that was taking place in Texas and Arizona....so they got fed up and did something.

Too bad it pissed those Dems off.

That part I fully understand.

My point is that it's the federal drug policy is much more to blame than the immigration policy. Yesterday's marginally justifiable action by the AZ state house does nothing to address that.

 

[Luissa]

I'll not argue that, never thought grass should be illegal. Disagree with the border though, too easy and much too dangerous not just regarding drugs. That is the feds job and they've all failed to address it.

Anything you do on the border will never stop the drug smugglers, they will just find a new way in, something they have proven everytime.

Then they will be dealing with others armed as themselves, not farmers and families. the border can be closed or at least made much less porous and much more dangerous for those crossing.

You are not getting what I am saying.
If you close the border in the south, they will just come in somehwere else. And the problem will just move to another state. These people have millions of dollars to figure out a new plan. The only thing that will stop the smugglers is stopping The War on Drugs.

 

[Madeline]

Mr. President, are you listening? Secretary Napolitano, remember us?

If you or your predecessors had done something to close the nation's back door, we wouldn't be in this fix, where U.S. citizens are left to wonder whether they'll be asked for their papers simply because of the color of their skin. Where our ranchers live in a war zone and our largest city is the kidnapping capital of the planet.

Don't you think that's a little simplistic? There's plenty of blame to go around. How about we start by blaming:

Mexico. Did not address the needs of its citizens even though it is the wealthiest nation in Latin America. Currently has a tax rate on its GDP that is equal to the one Haiti has. Privitazited industries and absorbed the proceeds into the elite's hands, driving hundreds of thousands more of its residents into abject poverty.

Clinton and the NAFTRA. We have a $50 Billion trade deficit with Mexico alone.

Bush Jr. Knew or should have known of rising crime rates in TX, AZ, CA and other American states. Where was Homeland Security THEN? Where is it NOW? Was it incompetence that not ONE dollar of penalty for violation of federal immigration laws against illegal labor were collected? That the Border Patrol was not adequately funded? Or was it all part of the Bush Plan to Court the Latino Vote?

Corporate America. Profiting from illegal labor regardless of the enormous cost to this nation. By eliminating worker safety costs and employment taxes, and by paying less than the minimum wage, Corporate America benefits to the tune of an estimated -- and it is anybody's estimate -- $10 to $25 Billion annually from these practices.

Social Security Administration. Pocketing $50 Billion annually from contributions made by illegal aliens who will never collect benefits. Pretending that insolvency is someday in the future and not immediately should Amnesty ever pass.

Unless of course, it does.

Amnesty. The false promise fuels the belief among Mexico's impoverished that if they can just reach American soil, they will someday soon participate in our entitlement programs. Chief among these is Social Security retirement. The cost of adding an extra 12 to 20 Million citizens to that program in ONE year is estimated to be in excess of 2.5 Trillion dollars. That is roughly 3.75% of the entire GDP of this nation, from Social Security retirement alone. Consider the added impact of Medicare, Medicaid, workers' compensation, etc. etc. etc. It is an IMPOSSIBILITY to ever absorb these people into our citizenry and law makers KNOW this but continue to discuss "Amnesty" in order to court Latino voters. BOTH sides of the aisle do this, but in fairness, Obama has been somewhat more honest on the issue and Bush was a total liar, pursuing the Latino vote at all costs.

And then, there is us. Every American voter. We blithered on and on about shit that does not matter and did not hear the voices of our fellow citizens in bellweather states like AZ. While we were all glued to the tv trying to find out if Oprah has gained weight, Phoenix was becoming the kidnapping capital of the WORLD. Which one of us knows positively nobody who lives in AZ, TX, NV or CA? Did you listen to their cries about the changes in their communities with half an ear? Or believe they were exaggerating? I know I did.

Fretful that my facebook page needed to be updated or that I was missing Judge Judy, I saw the links, videos and articles that have been flooding in from (mostly) grassroots and local outlets and I did not stop and read a damned thing. I live in Cleveland. What bearing could illegal immigration have on me, of all people?

 

[RadiomanATL]

So a state decides to punish its citizens because the federal government hasn't done anything?

Pretty much the columnist is saying that they have come to that point, yes.

 

[SFC Ollie]

You are not going to solve the problem with the violents ones too much either. If they are drug smugglers, they will just keep coming as long as they have someone to sell to. If you arrest one, five more will replace them. Whatever you do on the border for smugglers would just be like a band aid on a gun shot wound.
And the biggest thing in my opinion they could do to help stop smugglers is make marijuana legal. If it is legal, we don't need to smuggle it in, we can support our own marijuana industry.

I'll not argue that, never thought grass should be illegal. Disagree with the border though, too easy and much too dangerous not just regarding drugs. That is the feds job and they've all failed to address it.

Anything you do on the border will never stop the drug smugglers, they will just find a new way in, something they have proven everytime.

So that's it? They won? We should just go ahead and open the borders to everyone?

I don't think so.

 

[Oddball]

I'll not argue that, never thought grass should be illegal. Disagree with the border though, too easy and much too dangerous not just regarding drugs. That is the feds job and they've all failed to address it.

Anything you do on the border will never stop the drug smugglers, they will just find a new way in, something they have proven everytime.

So that's it? They won? We should just go ahead and open the borders to everyone?

I don't think so.

That's not what she's saying at all.

What has really brought this issue to a head is the extreme level of gang violence along the borders, brought about and financed by the drug trade.

Treating this as only an immigration problem is grossly simplistic.

 

[Luissa]

Anything you do on the border will never stop the drug smugglers, they will just find a new way in, something they have proven everytime.

So that's it? They won? We should just go ahead and open the borders to everyone?

I don't think so.

That's not what she's saying at all.

What has really brought this issue to a head is the extreme level of gang violence along the borders, brought about and financed by the drug trade.

Treating this as only an immigration problem is grossly simplistic.

This only has a little to do with what you are saying, but in Central Washington we have a very bad mexican gang problem growing due to drugs. My friend who was a PA in Yakima, where it is the worst, thinks we should classify illegals who are gang member as terrorists, and classify gangs as terrorists organizations. He also thinks this new law is unconstitutional, and he is not a big fan of illegals.

And you were right, that wasn't what I was saying. I think we should protect our borders, but we should also know it won't stop the drug problem.

 

[Ravi]

So a state decides to punish its citizens because the federal government hasn't done anything?

Pretty much the columnist is saying that they have come to that point, yes.

Not sure why anyone would agree with that logic.

 

[RadiomanATL]

So a state decides to punish its citizens because the federal government hasn't done anything?

Pretty much the columnist is saying that they have come to that point, yes.

Not sure why anyone would agree with that logic.

I have a gut feeling that it was done with the full knowledge that it will be struck down as unconstitutional, but it's going to make DC act instead of continually sweeping it under the rug, or worse pandering to legal relations of the illegals.