Are You Saved By Faith....Or By Works

I've read the bible from cover to cover. I've read the new testament at least ten times with concordances close by for additional opinions. While I was still in my 20's I had most of it committed to memory...chapter and verse. Without a doubt the most confusing, contradictory piece of writing in the history of the world. They couldn't even decide what it takes to accomplish what is supposed to be the most important decision a human will ever make that being what will determine eternal fate:

Ephesians 2:8
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

James 2
14 What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good[a] is that? 17 So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

Then there's the baptism thing. Some churches require no ritual, some sprinkle and the Primitive Baptist believe that if one is never submerged completely their soul is doomed to eternal flames and a pit of molten brimstone.

There are hundreds of contradictions in what might be considered some of the most important issues in the bible. Maybe that's why when the south sea islands are included there are more than 4000 ancient gods being worshipped. That might be when Christianity and it's conventions, denominations, sects, cults, sub cults, etc. are added there are more than 44,000 other ways to believe.

If the all powerful, all knowing, supreme god of the universe dropped off the only keys to the kingdom to a gang of ignorant primitives who believed in witchcraft and thought the earth was flat, he has one helluva sense of humor.

What is difficult about it? You must have faith and you must also work for salvation. Jesus and God Command that one preach the word and spread Gods word to everyone.

What part of this do you not understand....people who tie up their time in ancient god worship are either very naive or very brainwashed. PERIOD

Question for you.What does god have against poor folks who live in trailer parks. Every time a tornado hits one twice as many people get killed as does when it hits a subdivision with brick homes.

Hey Cammmpbell--stick to your original point.

So far, the response is that you need Faith first, then works to demonstrate that faith.

But your listed statements from the Bible does not seem to convey that.

Ephsians suggest that faith alone saves man.

James suggest that faith alone is not enough, one must do works as well.(editted remark--RGS did claim this!)

Add in the concept of rituals that are only demonstrations and have nothing to do with faith(I can go through a Baptism--I can lie and say I say I accept Jesus as my lord and savior. This will not change my faith) or works of the individual in question, the whole concept of being saved appears to be up to the religious organizations that dictates what it means..

You do have a viable point here, Cammmpbell--don't become emotional and lose the thread of your argument.
 
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I've read the bible from cover to cover. I've read the new testament at least ten times with concordances close by for additional opinions. While I was still in my 20's I had most of it committed to memory...chapter and verse. Without a doubt the most confusing, contradictory piece of writing in the history of the world. They couldn't even decide what it takes to accomplish what is supposed to be the most important decision a human will ever make that being what will determine eternal fate:

Ephesians 2:8
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

James 2
14 What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good[a] is that? 17 So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

Then there's the baptism thing. Some churches require no ritual, some sprinkle and the Primitive Baptist believe that if one is never submerged completely their soul is doomed to eternal flames and a pit of molten brimstone.

There are hundreds of contradictions in what might be considered some of the most important issues in the bible. Maybe that's why when the south sea islands are included there are more than 4000 ancient gods being worshipped. That might be when Christianity and it's conventions, denominations, sects, cults, sub cults, etc. are added there are more than 44,000 other ways to believe.

If the all powerful, all knowing, supreme god of the universe dropped off the only keys to the kingdom to a gang of ignorant primitives who believed in witchcraft and thought the earth was flat, he has one helluva sense of humor.

What is difficult about it? You must have faith and you must also work for salvation. Jesus and God Command that one preach the word and spread Gods word to everyone.

What part of this do you not understand....people who tie up their time in ancient god worship are either very naive or very brainwashed. PERIOD

Question for you.What does god have against poor folks who live in trailer parks. Every time a tornado hits one twice as many people get killed as does when it hits a subdivision with brick homes.
You are soooo stupid.
 
Screw your ancient god.....You too for that matter.

You're not my type.

Forgive me for thinking you might want to get an answer for your questions. When you finally decide to learn some things, God is waiting:)

I would be ashamed now in the year 2012 for anyone to think I believed a collection of primitive fairy tales including virgin birth, son of god, savior of the world, Holy Ghosts and rising from the dead. That ancient load of bullschit is so illogical and incomprehensible in modern society that only the brainwashed and basket cases should be pursuing the idea.

There's a sucker born every minute. They vote Republican(party of the 1%) and thump their bibles.
Better than the other side worshiping satan and socialism, fool.
 
What is difficult about it? You must have faith and you must also work for salvation. Jesus and God Command that one preach the word and spread Gods word to everyone.

What part of this do you not understand....people who tie up their time in ancient god worship are either very naive or very brainwashed. PERIOD

Question for you.What does god have against poor folks who live in trailer parks. Every time a tornado hits one twice as many people get killed as does when it hits a subdivision with brick homes.

Hey Cammmpbell--stick to your original point.

So far, the response is that you need Faith first, then works to demonstrate that faith.

But your listed statements from the Bible does not seem to convey that.

Ephsians suggest that faith alone saves man.

James suggest that faith alone is not enough, one must do works as well.(editted remark--RGS did claim this!)

Add in the concept of rituals that are only demonstrations and have nothing to do with faith(I can go through a Baptism--I can lie and say I say I accept Jesus as my lord and savior. This will not change my faith) or works of the individual in question, the whole concept of being saved appears to be up to the religious organizations that dictates what it means..

You do have a viable point here, Cammmpbell--don't become emotional and lose the thread of your argument.

Thats not what it says in Ephesians. It says one is saved by faith and that not of theirself...that it is a gift of god. The people who believe that do not believe works is a deciding factor. Why do you think their are over 44,000 denominations, conventions, sects, cults, sub cults, etc. of the same book. Do you think they just can't read......or like most on this board....can't think.
 
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Screw your ancient god.....You too for that matter.

You're not my type.

Forgive me for thinking you might want to get an answer for your questions. When you finally decide to learn some things, God is waiting:)

I would be ashamed now in the year 2012 for anyone to think I believed a collection of primitive fairy tales including virgin birth, son of god, savior of the world, Holy Ghosts and rising from the dead. That ancient load of bullschit is so illogical and incomprehensible in modern society that only the brainwashed and basket cases should be pursuing the idea.

There's a sucker born every minute. They vote Republican(party of the 1%) and thump their bibles.

Let's just take one of those things: The Virgin Birth.

Man can impregnate a virgin in a lab. She could give birth while never having sex. We know we have the technology to do this.

So what exactly is illogical and incomprehensible about a virgin birth?

Ive asked you this multiple times. I expect youll ignore it again here. But if you want to have a serious discussion, let's have one.
 
Thats not what it says in Ephesians. It says one is saved by faith and that not of theirself...that it is a gift of god. The people who believe that do not believe works is a deciding factor. Why do you think their are over 44,000 denominations, conventions, sects, cults, sub cults, etc. of the same book. Do you think they just can't read......or like most on this board....can't think.

They are saved by faith. Faith is demonstrated by action. You can have faith in Christ and yet ignore everything He says.

That are lots of denominations because we are in a Fallen world of Apostasy and Sin. Rather than humbling themselves before God and seeking knowledge from His hands, people presume they know more for themselves. They choose to act contrary to what they know is true.

The fact that there are so many divisions and opinions is why we need to, as individuals, turn to God and seek wisdom and knowledge at His hands. That is why we need to exercise faith enough to repent of our sins and start living the life we are invited to live. The more people live the principles of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, the More God will reveal to them and unite them with their brethren.
 
You can have all the faith in the world, but if you don't demonstrate that faith via actions under that faith, nobody can know what you're about.

If it's just faith alone that all the Christians believe they are saved by, it's no wonder so many of them just give lip service to God while ignoring all the other things, like lying, adultery, coveting, etc.
 
You can have all the faith in the world, but if you don't demonstrate that faith via actions under that faith, nobody can know what you're about.

If it's just faith alone that all the Christians believe they are saved by, it's no wonder so many of them just give lip service to God while ignoring all the other things, like lying, adultery, coveting, etc.

Actually you can be a total dickwad all your life and still be saved on your deathbed.

Sure, you have to keep your nose clean or at least to everything you can to, but actions won't save you. Faith alone will.
 
You can have all the faith in the world, but if you don't demonstrate that faith via actions under that faith, nobody can know what you're about.

If it's just faith alone that all the Christians believe they are saved by, it's no wonder so many of them just give lip service to God while ignoring all the other things, like lying, adultery, coveting, etc.

I dont really think it matters what anyone else knows about you.

It's just if you actually have faith in God, why wouldnt you be doing what He says? I mean if you trust Him, wouldn't you naturally do what He expects you to do and live better than you currently are?
 
So youre trying to tell us your so smart, but you cant figure this out?

Maybe you should humble yourself before God and ask Him for once in your life.

You are arguing with an Idiot, not remotely ready to face his Maker. In doing so, unintentionally, you are complicating and adding to the hole he is digging himself into. Mocking God, is just going to make it tougher for him, best not to encourage it. Just a thought. If you Truly see merit in it, fine, I don't. He is too bitter, and not open yet to reason. True enough, nothing a Lightening Strike won't fix, but, I think you see my point. :):):)
 
I believe Hell is on Earth and we pay for our sins before we die.

I think We are Loved, and because we Fucked Up Royally, We were put here, to both live the absurdity that we create because of our flaws, and to learn through cause and effect, the true cost of our stupidity. Some of us eventually start to wake up to reality. Baby Steps.

Question. Can you perceive the Reason for your being, paramount to the misdirection your tangents create?
 
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What is difficult about it? You must have faith and you must also work for salvation. Jesus and God Command that one preach the word and spread Gods word to everyone.

What part of this do you not understand....people who tie up their time in ancient god worship are either very naive or very brainwashed. PERIOD

Question for you.What does god have against poor folks who live in trailer parks. Every time a tornado hits one twice as many people get killed as does when it hits a subdivision with brick homes.

Hey Cammmpbell--stick to your original point.

So far, the response is that you need Faith first, then works to demonstrate that faith.

But your listed statements from the Bible does not seem to convey that.

Ephsians suggest that faith alone saves man.

James suggest that faith alone is not enough, one must do works as well.(editted remark--RGS did claim this!)

Add in the concept of rituals that are only demonstrations and have nothing to do with faith(I can go through a Baptism--I can lie and say I say I accept Jesus as my lord and savior. This will not change my faith) or works of the individual in question, the whole concept of being saved appears to be up to the religious organizations that dictates what it means..

You do have a viable point here, Cammmpbell--don't become emotional and lose the thread of your argument.

Emotional LOL

How the hell does somebody get emotional about what some bible thumping slave to a collection of primitive fairy tales keys into an Internet board argument..........
 
I've read the bible from cover to cover. I've read the new testament at least ten times with concordances close by for additional opinions. While I was still in my 20's I had most of it committed to memory...chapter and verse. Without a doubt the most confusing, contradictory piece of writing in the history of the world. They couldn't even decide what it takes to accomplish what is supposed to be the most important decision a human will ever make that being what will determine eternal fate:

Ephesians 2:8
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

James 2
14 What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good[a] is that? 17 So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

Then there's the baptism thing. Some churches require no ritual, some sprinkle and the Primitive Baptist believe that if one is never submerged completely their soul is doomed to eternal flames and a pit of molten brimstone.

There are hundreds of contradictions in what might be considered some of the most important issues in the bible. Maybe that's why when the south sea islands are included there are more than 4000 ancient gods being worshipped. That might be when Christianity and it's conventions, denominations, sects, cults, sub cults, etc. are added there are more than 44,000 other ways to believe.

If the all powerful, all knowing, supreme god of the universe dropped off the only keys to the kingdom to a gang of ignorant primitives who believed in witchcraft and thought the earth was flat, he has one helluva sense of humor.

What is difficult about it? You must have faith and you must also work for salvation. Jesus and God Command that one preach the word and spread Gods word to everyone.

What part of this do you not understand....people who tie up their time in ancient god worship are either very naive or very brainwashed. PERIOD

Question for you.What does god have against poor folks who live in trailer parks. Every time a tornado hits one twice as many people get killed as does when it hits a subdivision with brick homes.

Is it God's fault man chooses to build homes made of sheet-metal and toothpicks?

Seems you like blaming God for the mistakes of man.

Btw; Are you advocating that everyone be given a brick home?

Are you saying God causes weather?

What exactly are you trying to say?

Didn't you discover while reading the Bible cover to cover that the Devil has dominion over the Earth?
 
So youre trying to tell us your so smart, but you cant figure this out?

Maybe you should humble yourself before God and ask Him for once in your life.

You are arguing with an Idiot, not remotely ready to face his Maker. In doing so, unintentionally, you are complicating and adding to the hole he is digging himself into. Mocking God, is just going to make it tougher for him, best not to encourage it. Just a thought. If you Truly see merit in it, fine, I don't. He is too bitter, and not open yet to reason. True enough, nothing a Lightening Strike won't fix, but, I think you see my point. :):):)

Horse Phuckin' Schit!!!!

I accepted my mortality while I was still in my teens. That's what all religion is about.....fear of death. Get this through your think skull.....every form of lfe dies. Everything which is breathing stops. Every single thought process is totally and forever ceased. Every germ, bacteria, virus is alive for a short period and dies.

Now.....if you're so afraid of being dead let me clarify it for you. Think of the best nights sleep you ever had, exhausted, well fed, a couple of drinks and out cold. No dreams, no disturbances...the most restful period in your like. Surgical anesthesia will also work if it's the proper drug.

Death is dying, that's why they call it dead.

People who have to lean on ancient fairy tales about a son of god savior who is also the father and a holy ghost are to be pitied....in a major way.

I believe anybody who teaches a child this horse schit should be charged with child abuse and imprisoned.
 
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Screw your ancient god.....You too for that matter.

You're not my type.

Forgive me for thinking you might want to get an answer for your questions. When you finally decide to learn some things, God is waiting:)

I would be ashamed now in the year 2012 for anyone to think I believed a collection of primitive fairy tales including virgin birth, son of god, savior of the world, Holy Ghosts and rising from the dead. That ancient load of bullschit is so illogical and incomprehensible in modern society that only the brainwashed and basket cases should be pursuing the idea.

There's a sucker born every minute. They vote Republican(party of the 1%) and thump their bibles.

And yet, you worship Obama. Go figure.
 

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