Are Wisconsin’s Public Employees Overpaid?

[Tea Bag Partier]

Wow. I'm starting to think somebody who thinks an annual salary of 55k, and a total benefits and compensation package of 90K is a totally outrageous and mind boggling amount of money, must not have much work experience. Possibly still in college or high school?

A 90k total compensation for somebody who has the equivalent of a Master's degree and has a large amount of training, is not indicative of an overpaid free loader.


The average total compensation for all civilian employees in the united states according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics (salary plus benefits) is 113K per year. Looks like teacher are not only underpaid, but almost grossly underpaid.

I can't post links yet, but I'll try typing the url to the Bureau's salary report

bls.gov slash web slash eci slash echistrynaics.pdf (see Table 1)

 

[shintao]

I always enjoy stupid liberal tricks. Yeah, by "government employee" I was referring first to the military. You knew that of course, which is why it's a stupid liberal trick. I know some young, bright eyed liberal would say this. I didn't specify because I knew it would amuse me. I was right.

So since you went with the obvious, I'll give the obvious correction. All government bureaucrats in this country are overpaid. Probably no one more then government teachers.

Do you know what the average teacher with a masters degree earns compared to the average non-teacher with a masters degree?

Um...what does it matter?

Shouldn't a person earn whatever their work is worth to their employer? Shouldn't the labor market decide what labor is worth?

Not necessarily. A person should earn what they can negotiate their work is worth, independent of anything any employer dreams up who has not seen the work.

The labor market does decide what labor is worth, just like the worker decides what his labor is worth. The labor market has to have a standard to go by, and a Union's wage & benefit package is a good standard to America. Mainly because chaos rains from the private individual sector workers wages and benefits.

 

[shintao]

I did make an apples to apples comparison. Those who PAY THE SALARIES are a very proper benchmark.

Good,

"The median expected salary for a typical Chief Executive Officer in the United States is $701,331. "

Looks like teachers are underpaid!

What a moron.

Comparing a teacher to a CEO is specious.

What an imbecile!

Comparing a dish washer to a college educated teacher.

Come on stupid, either make the comparison or admit you are a fool as well.

 

[Leweman]

Theres definately a bigger difference between a CEO and an average teacher than a dishwasher and an average teacher

 

[keee keee]

Damned right they are over paid. and they are lucky that they are not paid for by their performance. Where I live in Chicago the drop out rate is at about 50%. and the ones that graduate don't know shit!!!! At a cost of of more than $10.000 per student. Most are dumber than a box of rocks. But are brained washed by these liberal morons called teachers!!!! It would be wiser to send these kids to private schools and cheaper than the public schools system.

 

[shintao]

Theres definately a bigger difference between a CEO and an average teacher than a dishwasher and an average teacher

Well the point is B wants to compare "average" teacher wage/benefit packages to average private sector wages/(NO benefit packages), and then claim a teacher makes more than the average Wisconsian worker.

She doesn't want to add in private sector benefit packages because,

1. The private sector average is higher than teachers.
2. She can't find an average for Wisconsin private workers benefits.

Obviously the private sector benefits are going to be higher than teachers. So if she just compares the wages between teachers & private sector, she loses the argument.

 

[shintao]

Damned right they are over paid. and they are lucky that they are not paid for by their performance. Where I live in Chicago the drop out rate is at about 50%. and the ones that graduate don't know shit!!!! At a cost of of more than $10.000 per student. Most are dumber than a box of rocks. But are brained washed by these liberal morons called teachers!!!! It would be wiser to send these kids to private schools and cheaper than the public schools system.

Drop out rate isn't a teachers fault, nor is students who cheat on tests. Yes, the money to educate your children should end. Maybe when you pay $25,000. a year to educate your own children, you will have less of them, make sure they attend school, and do not cheat their way through the system. Looks like you got educated by those moron Liberal teachers.

 

[Toro]

Here's your choices..


Contribute some to your retirement and health care or get your sorry ass laid off. Which would you choose?

Why should those be the only choices? The state of Florida pays professionals - accountants, lawyers, IT - significantly less than what people make in the private sector - 30%, 40%, 50% less in some cases - and that's after compensation for healthcare and retirement. If the government of Florida paid market rates, total compensation would be higher for many professions, even if those government employers paid a portion of their benefits.

 

[edthecynic]

Show us where those numbers came from and how both were calculated.

Here you go. The actual total teacher comp averages $100K for the Milwaukee school system. The average base salary is $55K, so the benefits load is over $45K.

Average MPS Teacher Compensation Tops $100k/year | MacIver Institute

Wisconsin Teaching Salaries | How Much Do Wisconsin Teachers Make?

Using the benefits load ratio compared to average salaries for the state comes to over $90K in total comp.

Compare that to the average per capita com data from the BLS.

Wisconsin QuickFacts from the US Census Bureau

The difference is huge.

I don't see anywhere in that link where the 'fringe benefits' are broken down dollar for dollar.

Exactly!!!
The CON$ervative Brotherhood never says what these benefits are. I found that the school board pays 97% of the health insurance for single teachers which is $363 per month and 95% of the health insurance for families which is $801 per month. That is no where near $45,000 per year and CON$ can't seem to show how that $45,000 was calculated. The teachers PAY 5% of their salary for their retirement so that is no benefit. So where does the other $44,000 in "benefits" come from????

 

[Leweman]

Are you an idiot? They pay ONLY 5 percent for retirement most people pay at least 50 percent. How is that not a benifit to have 95 percent of your pension payed for? Coupled with the 10000 dollars a year for insurance for families Im sure that comes out to about an extra 30 or 40 grand a year on top of salary. Not to mention they work only 180 days a year. Gimme a break.

 

[Article 15]

During the tax debate:

$250k in NY ... not rich ... barely scraping by

Trying to bust up Unions:

$53k in WI ... ZOMG OVERPAID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[editec]

Job Net Monthly Income constant 2005 US$ (1) Notes Gross Monthly Average Income (2) Compulsory Deductions (3) Weekly Hours (4)

General Physician average salary PPP $ 8,189 $ 8,189

Family and general practitioners, standardized hours (2,080 hours/year), 2005. 11,698 dollars 30%

Dentist average salary PPP $ 6,164 $ 6,164 Full-time and part-time employees, 2005. 8,561 dollars 28% 38.0

Engineer average salary PPP $ 4,710 $ 4,710 Chemical engineer, Full-time and part-time employees, 2005. 6,197 dollars 24% 40.0

Professor average salary PPP $ 4,638 $ 4,638 Full-time and part-time employees, all college and university teachers, 2005. 6,103 dollars 24% 32.3

Airline Pilot average income PPP $ 4,206 $ 4,206 Aircraft pilots & flight engineers, median earnings, 2007. Standardized weeks per month: 4.33. 5,884 dollars 24%

Computer Programmer average salary PPP $ 4,141 $ 4,141 Full-time and part-time employees, 2005. 5,378 dollars 23% 39.4

Teacher average salary PPP $ 4,055 $ 4,055 Full-time and part-time employees, 2005. 5,266 dollars 23% 36.6

Physiotherapist average salary PPP $ 3,434 $ 3,434 Full-time and part-time employees, 2005. 4,402 dollars 22% 34.2

Accountant average salary PPP $ 3,370 $ 3,370 Full-time and part-time employees, 2005. 4,321 dollars 22% 38.5

Professional Nurse average salary PPP $ 3,168 $ 3,168 Full-time and part-time employees, 2005. 4,061 dollars 22% 33.0

Flight Attendant median salary PPP $ 2,949 $ 2,949 Full-time and part-time employees, 2003. 3,520 dollars 21%

Firefighter average salary PPP $ 2,729 $ 2,729 Full-time and part-time employees, 2005. 3,454 dollars 21% 48.9

Miner median salary PPP $ 2,694 $ 2,694 Standardized salary (180 hours/month), Full-time and part-time employees, 2004. 3,270 dollars 20%

Postman median salary PPP $ 2,638 $ 2,638 Standardized salary (160 hours/month), Full-time and part-time employees, 2002. 3,040 dollars 20%

Car Mechanic average salary PPP $ 2,526 $ 2,526 Full-time and part-time employees, 2005. 3,118 dollars 19% 39.1

Carpenter average salary PPP $ 2,460 $ 2,460 Full-time and part-time employees, 2005. 3,037 dollars 19% 39.6

Auxiliary Nurse median salary PPP $ 2,268 $ 2,268 Standardized salary (160 hours/month), Full-time and part-time employees, 2004. 2,686 dollars 18%

Office Clerk average salary PPP $ 1,921 $ 1,921 Full-time and part-time employees, 2005. 2,314 dollars 17% 37.6

Salesperson average salary PPP $ 1,876 $ 1,876 Full-time and part-time employees, all categories, 2005. 2,260 dollars 17% 32.0

Wood Grinder average salary PPP $ 1,760 $ 1,760 Full-time and part-time employees, wood lathe operator, 2005. 2,095 dollars 16% 39.8

Garment Cutter average salary PPP $ 1,661 $ 1,661 Full-time and part-time employees, dressmaker, 2005. 1,977 dollars 16% 36.5

Furniture Finisher average salary PPP $ 1,660 $ 1,660 Full-time and part-time employees, 2005. 1,976 dollars 16% 38.0

Bus Driver average salary PPP $ 1,594 $ 1,594 Full-time and part-time employees, 2005. 1,898 dollars 16% 29.4

Hotel Receptionist average salary PPP $ 1,469 $ 1,469 Full-time and part-time employees, all receptionists, 2005. 1,749 dollars 16%
34.2

Baker average salary PPP $ 1,461 $ 1,461 Full-time and part-time employees, 2005. 1,739 dollars 16% 34.3

Chambermaid median salary PPP $ 1,251 $ 1,251 Standardized salary (180 hours/month), Full-time and part-time employees, 2004. 1,413 dollars 14%

Sector
Gas-Electricity-Water average income PPP $ 3,691 $ 3,691 Full-time and part-time production workers in the private sector, 2005. Incl. overtime, excl. bonus. 4,732 dollars 22% 40.9

Mining-Quarrying average income PPP $ 2,961 $ 2,961 Full-time and part-time production workers in the private sector, 2005. Incl. overtime, excl. bonus. 3,748 dollars 21% 45.4

Construction average income PPP $ 2,584 $ 2,584 Full-time and part-time production workers in the private sector, 2005. Incl. overtime, excl. bonus. 3,230 dollars 20% 38.3

Manufacturing average income PPP $ 2,372 $ 2,372 Full-time and part-time production workers in the private sector, 2005. Incl. overtime, excl. bonus. 2,928 dollars 19% 40.8

All Sectors median income PPP $ 2,313 $ 2,313 Median usual earnings, full-time employees, 2005. Entire workforce excl. part-time workers, non-incorporated self-employed, and incorporated self-employed. 2,821 dollars

source

 

[chanel]

Are you an idiot? They pay ONLY 5 percent for retirement most people pay at least 50 percent. How is that not a benifit to have 95 percent of your pension payed for? Coupled with the 10000 dollars a year for insurance for families Im sure that comes out to about an extra 30 or 40 grand a year on top of salary. Not to mention they work only 180 days a year. Gimme a break.

50%? You sure about that?

 

[Defiant1]

Job Net Monthly Income constant 2005 US$ (1) Notes Gross Monthly Average Income (2) Compulsory Deductions (3) Weekly Hours (4)

General Physician average salary PPP $ 8,189 $ 8,189

Family and general practitioners, standardized hours (2,080 hours/year), 2005. 11,698 dollars 30%

Dentist average salary PPP $ 6,164 $ 6,164 Full-time and part-time employees, 2005. 8,561 dollars 28% 38.0

Engineer average salary PPP $ 4,710 $ 4,710 Chemical engineer, Full-time and part-time employees, 2005. 6,197 dollars 24% 40.0

Professor average salary PPP $ 4,638 $ 4,638 Full-time and part-time employees, all college and university teachers, 2005. 6,103 dollars 24% 32.3

Airline Pilot average income PPP $ 4,206 $ 4,206 Aircraft pilots & flight engineers, median earnings, 2007. Standardized weeks per month: 4.33. 5,884 dollars 24%

Computer Programmer average salary PPP $ 4,141 $ 4,141 Full-time and part-time employees, 2005. 5,378 dollars 23% 39.4

Teacher average salary PPP $ 4,055 $ 4,055 Full-time and part-time employees, 2005. 5,266 dollars 23% 36.6

Physiotherapist average salary PPP $ 3,434 $ 3,434 Full-time and part-time employees, 2005. 4,402 dollars 22% 34.2

Accountant average salary PPP $ 3,370 $ 3,370 Full-time and part-time employees, 2005. 4,321 dollars 22% 38.5

Professional Nurse average salary PPP $ 3,168 $ 3,168 Full-time and part-time employees, 2005. 4,061 dollars 22% 33.0

Flight Attendant median salary PPP $ 2,949 $ 2,949 Full-time and part-time employees, 2003. 3,520 dollars 21%

Firefighter average salary PPP $ 2,729 $ 2,729 Full-time and part-time employees, 2005. 3,454 dollars 21% 48.9

Miner median salary PPP $ 2,694 $ 2,694 Standardized salary (180 hours/month), Full-time and part-time employees, 2004. 3,270 dollars 20%

Postman median salary PPP $ 2,638 $ 2,638 Standardized salary (160 hours/month), Full-time and part-time employees, 2002. 3,040 dollars 20%

Car Mechanic average salary PPP $ 2,526 $ 2,526 Full-time and part-time employees, 2005. 3,118 dollars 19% 39.1

Carpenter average salary PPP $ 2,460 $ 2,460 Full-time and part-time employees, 2005. 3,037 dollars 19% 39.6

Auxiliary Nurse median salary PPP $ 2,268 $ 2,268 Standardized salary (160 hours/month), Full-time and part-time employees, 2004. 2,686 dollars 18%

Office Clerk average salary PPP $ 1,921 $ 1,921 Full-time and part-time employees, 2005. 2,314 dollars 17% 37.6

Salesperson average salary PPP $ 1,876 $ 1,876 Full-time and part-time employees, all categories, 2005. 2,260 dollars 17% 32.0

Wood Grinder average salary PPP $ 1,760 $ 1,760 Full-time and part-time employees, wood lathe operator, 2005. 2,095 dollars 16% 39.8

Garment Cutter average salary PPP $ 1,661 $ 1,661 Full-time and part-time employees, dressmaker, 2005. 1,977 dollars 16% 36.5

Furniture Finisher average salary PPP $ 1,660 $ 1,660 Full-time and part-time employees, 2005. 1,976 dollars 16% 38.0

Bus Driver average salary PPP $ 1,594 $ 1,594 Full-time and part-time employees, 2005. 1,898 dollars 16% 29.4

Hotel Receptionist average salary PPP $ 1,469 $ 1,469 Full-time and part-time employees, all receptionists, 2005. 1,749 dollars 16%
34.2

Baker average salary PPP $ 1,461 $ 1,461 Full-time and part-time employees, 2005. 1,739 dollars 16% 34.3

Chambermaid median salary PPP $ 1,251 $ 1,251 Standardized salary (180 hours/month), Full-time and part-time employees, 2004. 1,413 dollars 14%

Sector
Gas-Electricity-Water average income PPP $ 3,691 $ 3,691 Full-time and part-time production workers in the private sector, 2005. Incl. overtime, excl. bonus. 4,732 dollars 22% 40.9

Mining-Quarrying average income PPP $ 2,961 $ 2,961 Full-time and part-time production workers in the private sector, 2005. Incl. overtime, excl. bonus. 3,748 dollars 21% 45.4

Construction average income PPP $ 2,584 $ 2,584 Full-time and part-time production workers in the private sector, 2005. Incl. overtime, excl. bonus. 3,230 dollars 20% 38.3

Manufacturing average income PPP $ 2,372 $ 2,372 Full-time and part-time production workers in the private sector, 2005. Incl. overtime, excl. bonus. 2,928 dollars 19% 40.8

All Sectors median income PPP $ 2,313 $ 2,313 Median usual earnings, full-time employees, 2005. Entire workforce excl. part-time workers, non-incorporated self-employed, and incorporated self-employed. 2,821 dollars

source

Is this teacher pay based on 12 months or the 9 months of 6 hour days they actually work?

 

[WorldWatcher]

Is this teacher pay based on 12 months or the 9 months of 6 hour days they actually work?

180 Days, 9 Months, 6 Hours are not what teachers actually work - you may be confusing students on campus with hours worked.

It's a common mistake.



>>>>

 

[AmericanFirst]

The problem with what the governor has done is that he is literally pulling the rug out from under people whose own personal budgets have depended on what they earn NOW. There's undoubtedly room for cuts, but not before honest negotiation takes place, just as it has in many other states. You don't just start DICTATING something that will drastically and immediately affect the income people have come to rely upon.

It's Walker's attitude that needs adjusting, not public payrolls.

He told people what he was going to do and the majority voted him in, now they are crying because they might have to contribute some to their healthcare benefits, boo hoo.

 

[georgephillip]

Are Public Employees Overpaid?

Governor Walker has said that the labor changes are necessary because Wisconsin’s local and state employees haven’t made the same sacrifices during the Great Recession as private sector workers.

Walker glossed over the fact that state employees had eight unpaid furlough days in 2009 and 2010, which saved the state $121 million, and their wages have been flat for years.

He also forgot to mention that when he was Milwaukee County executive, members of the largest county employee union took 26 unpaid furlough days in 2010, or one unpaid day off for every two-week pay period—a 10% pay cut. They’ll have 26 unpaid days off this year, too, as a result of Walker’s final county budget. (The employees at the Shepherd Express, a private sector company, did not have any wage decreases or forced furlough days.)

Walker’s Renewed War on Workers

"Teachers are givers in a world dominated by takers, and they're also sharers. This collaborative instinct makes our profession unlike any other."
Barbara Keshishian

Scott Walker's $144,423 per year salary as governor places him in the richest 1% of all US earners. The same economic class that benefited most from the inflation and collapse of an $8 trillion housing bubble in 2007-08.

That collapse and the subsequent rise in unemployment coupled with the decline of consumer purchasing power and state and local tax revenue is why corporate whores like Scott Walker were put in office.

To serve the Koch brothers and other assorted parasites who have increased their share of national wealth by two percent since the housing bubble burst.

It won't stop by "choosing" between Republican OR Democrat in 2012.

 

[asterism]

Are Public Employees Overpaid?

Governor Walker has said that the labor changes are necessary because Wisconsin’s local and state employees haven’t made the same sacrifices during the Great Recession as private sector workers.

Walker glossed over the fact that state employees had eight unpaid furlough days in 2009 and 2010, which saved the state $121 million, and their wages have been flat for years.

He also forgot to mention that when he was Milwaukee County executive, members of the largest county employee union took 26 unpaid furlough days in 2010, or one unpaid day off for every two-week pay period—a 10% pay cut. They’ll have 26 unpaid days off this year, too, as a result of Walker’s final county budget. (The employees at the Shepherd Express, a private sector company, did not have any wage decreases or forced furlough days.)

Walker’s Renewed War on Workers

"Teachers are givers in a world dominated by takers, and they're also sharers. This collaborative instinct makes our profession unlike any other."
Barbara Keshishian

Scott Walker's $144,423 per year salary as governor places him in the richest 1% of all US earners. The same economic class that benefited most from the inflation and collapse of an $8 trillion housing bubble in 2007-08.

That collapse and the subsequent rise in unemployment coupled with the decline of consumer purchasing power and state and local tax revenue is why corporate whores like Scott Walker were put in office.

To serve the Koch brothers and other assorted parasites who have increased their share of national wealth by two percent since the housing bubble burst.

It won't stop by "choosing" between Republican OR Democrat in 2012.

False. The top 1% for 2008 was over $380,000. $144K doesn't even make it into the top 5%.

The Tax Foundation - Summary of Latest Federal Individual Income Tax Data

 

[georgephillip]

Sorry for the mistake.

I should have placed Walker in the top 10% of earners based on his salary.

I'm not aware of any additional income he may receive.

 

[edthecynic]

Are you an idiot? They pay ONLY 5 percent for retirement most people pay at least 50 percent. How is that not a benifit to have 95 percent of your pension payed for? Coupled with the 10000 dollars a year for insurance for families Im sure that comes out to about an extra 30 or 40 grand a year on top of salary. Not to mention they work only 180 days a year. Gimme a break.

This is the intelligence level of the CON$ervative Brotherhood that has to be dealt with!
Teachers pay 5% of their SALARY into a retirement fund. No one pays 50% of their SALARY into a retirement fund and no one gets 100% of their SALARY put into a retirement fund each year.
Sheeeeeeesh!