Are Whites Ashamed...

[MizMolly]

Blacks were the only workers that werent paid a salary. The white people that didnt own slaves were the equivalent of white trash today.

So poor blacks today are black trash

No. Theyre Black not white. Your line of logic doesnt account for that. Just because poor whites are white trash doesnt mean poor Blacks are Black trash.

Just because there are poor whites, that doesnt make them trash. I have seen poor black neighborhoods here, much trashier than the poor white neighborhoods

Every poor white neighborhood I have seen is filled with white trash and trashier than the poor Black neighborhoods I grew up in.

Actually I grew up in a poor mostly black neighborhood and the worst eyesore, the trashiest property in the neighborhood, was one owned by a white family. It stunk up the block and pretty much looked like the local landfill. Yet they were still racists and thought they were better than blacks.

Bullshit. Now who is lying?

 

[MizMolly]

Ridiculous

You dont believe me? Watch this all the way through.

Its a tide commercial. It isnt what you dream it to be. Your dirty socks and underwear smell good? Lol

Its a Tide commercial that says...."Now I dont smell like wet dog" You said that it was ridiculous yet there it is in the commercial you claimed didnt exist.

Oh, so one woman who said that means all whites smell like wet dogs? Shall we stereotype blacks more? You seem to think all whites are alike.

You claimed it wasnt true. I pointed out that there was a commercial about it. Do you think the commercial just made that up or its something that is commonly known?

I have no problem with who you stereotype. I expect you to do that anyway.

Did you not get the gist of the commercial? It was because her clothes werent getting clean.

 

[MizMolly]

Ridiculous

You dont believe me? Watch this all the way through.

Its a tide commercial. It isnt what you dream it to be. Your dirty socks and underwear smell good? Lol

Its a Tide commercial that says...."Now I dont smell like wet dog" You said that it was ridiculous yet there it is in the commercial you claimed didnt exist.

Oh, so one woman who said that means all whites smell like wet dogs? Shall we stereotype blacks more? You seem to think all whites are alike.

You claimed it wasnt true. I pointed out that there was a commercial about it. Do you think the commercial just made that up or its something that is commonly known?

I have no problem with who you stereotype. I expect you to do that anyway.

I don't stereotype, but you certainly do and other blacks yet they cry when they are sterotyped

 

[Asclepias]

You dont believe me? Watch this all the way through.

Its a tide commercial. It isnt what you dream it to be. Your dirty socks and underwear smell good? Lol

Its a Tide commercial that says...."Now I dont smell like wet dog" You said that it was ridiculous yet there it is in the commercial you claimed didnt exist.

Oh, so one woman who said that means all whites smell like wet dogs? Shall we stereotype blacks more? You seem to think all whites are alike.

You claimed it wasnt true. I pointed out that there was a commercial about it. Do you think the commercial just made that up or its something that is commonly known?

I have no problem with who you stereotype. I expect you to do that anyway.

Did you not get the gist of the commercial? It was because her clothes werent getting clean.

She said now I dont smell like wet dog. She didnt say now my clothes dont smell like wet dog. Now that you have deflected can you answer my question?

Do you think the commercial just made that up or its something that is commonly known?

 

[MizMolly]

Your hatred seethes through your post, just thought you'd like to know. I'm not trying to change you, I don't care about that, I just wanted you to know how you come off, like a total white hating racist. Now why should anyone take anything you rant about seriously?

You are a white racist, how I come off to you is what you deserve to get. Again, your attempts at tone policing is not going to stop anything. It doesn't matter how it's presented, because you'll say the same thing about how people hate all whites. That's your built in excuse so you can deny the truth. So how long are we going to wait for you to man up and explain why blacks could possibly be mad at whites?

I dunno why blacks would be mad at whites. We brought you over, freed you, gave you equal rights, you can go for the "American Dream"... Compared to Africa, you have it really good here. So why ARE you so mad?

Did you read what you posted? Are you serious?

Everyone went through hard times, even whites, to make it in America, and to make America what it is today. You just want to bitch at history.

Not how it happened. I know you have to lie to yourself, but you need to just lie to yourself and stop trying to tell me how your lie is the way things are.

You are pathetic. So, now you believe whites never had it bad? If you are so successful, as you claim, you had it better than some whites so quit your lying.

 

[Asclepias]

You dont believe me? Watch this all the way through.

Its a tide commercial. It isnt what you dream it to be. Your dirty socks and underwear smell good? Lol

Its a Tide commercial that says...."Now I dont smell like wet dog" You said that it was ridiculous yet there it is in the commercial you claimed didnt exist.

Oh, so one woman who said that means all whites smell like wet dogs? Shall we stereotype blacks more? You seem to think all whites are alike.

You claimed it wasnt true. I pointed out that there was a commercial about it. Do you think the commercial just made that up or its something that is commonly known?

I have no problem with who you stereotype. I expect you to do that anyway.

I don't stereotype, but you certainly do and other blacks yet they cry when they are sterotyped

They should stop crying. Its in whites nature to stereotype.

 

[MizMolly]

Its a tide commercial. It isnt what you dream it to be. Your dirty socks and underwear smell good? Lol

Its a Tide commercial that says...."Now I dont smell like wet dog" You said that it was ridiculous yet there it is in the commercial you claimed didnt exist.

Oh, so one woman who said that means all whites smell like wet dogs? Shall we stereotype blacks more? You seem to think all whites are alike.

You claimed it wasnt true. I pointed out that there was a commercial about it. Do you think the commercial just made that up or its something that is commonly known?

I have no problem with who you stereotype. I expect you to do that anyway.

Did you not get the gist of the commercial? It was because her clothes werent getting clean.

She said now I dont smell like wet dog. She didnt say now my clothes dont smell like wet dog. Now that you have deflected can you answer my question?

Do you think the commercial just made that up or its something that is commonly known?

How lame, what was the commerial about? LAUNDRY SMELLING GOOD, because it wasn't clean before....your gloating is so stupid

 

[MizMolly]

Its a tide commercial. It isnt what you dream it to be. Your dirty socks and underwear smell good? Lol

Its a Tide commercial that says...."Now I dont smell like wet dog" You said that it was ridiculous yet there it is in the commercial you claimed didnt exist.

Oh, so one woman who said that means all whites smell like wet dogs? Shall we stereotype blacks more? You seem to think all whites are alike.

You claimed it wasnt true. I pointed out that there was a commercial about it. Do you think the commercial just made that up or its something that is commonly known?

I have no problem with who you stereotype. I expect you to do that anyway.

I don't stereotype, but you certainly do and other blacks yet they cry when they are sterotyped

They should stop crying. Its in whites nature to stereotype.

Where do you suppose those stereotypes came from?

 

[Asclepias]

Its a Tide commercial that says...."Now I dont smell like wet dog" You said that it was ridiculous yet there it is in the commercial you claimed didnt exist.

Oh, so one woman who said that means all whites smell like wet dogs? Shall we stereotype blacks more? You seem to think all whites are alike.

You claimed it wasnt true. I pointed out that there was a commercial about it. Do you think the commercial just made that up or its something that is commonly known?

I have no problem with who you stereotype. I expect you to do that anyway.

Did you not get the gist of the commercial? It was because her clothes werent getting clean.

She said now I dont smell like wet dog. She didnt say now my clothes dont smell like wet dog. Now that you have deflected can you answer my question?

Do you think the commercial just made that up or its something that is commonly known?

How lame, what was the commerial about? LAUNDRY SMELLING GOOD, because it wasn't clean before....your gloating is so stupid

Stating a fact is not gloating. I would be laughing at you if I was gloating. The facts are is that she said "now I dont smell like wet dog" She said her clothes had that yoga aroma. Two different things.

 

[Asclepias]

Its a Tide commercial that says...."Now I dont smell like wet dog" You said that it was ridiculous yet there it is in the commercial you claimed didnt exist.

Oh, so one woman who said that means all whites smell like wet dogs? Shall we stereotype blacks more? You seem to think all whites are alike.

You claimed it wasnt true. I pointed out that there was a commercial about it. Do you think the commercial just made that up or its something that is commonly known?

I have no problem with who you stereotype. I expect you to do that anyway.

I don't stereotype, but you certainly do and other blacks yet they cry when they are sterotyped

They should stop crying. Its in whites nature to stereotype.

Where do you suppose those stereotypes came from?

White insecurity and fear.

 

[IM2]

This is for Avery. You say the same thing every time.... Nothing.

The math on Black out of wedlock births
Ta-Nehisi Coates Feb 17, 2009

TNC and others disputed that 7O percent of black children are born out of wedlock. Here is one source that supports that figure.

• Government statistics reveal that the percentage of all babies born to unwed mothers nationally rose to 32 percent in 1997 from only 5.3 percent in 1960. Among blacks nationally, 69 percent of births were to unwed mothers.
  
  http://www.dadi.org/dn_bleak.htm
  
  Here is another source that says that in Indiana, 80 percent of black children are born out of wedlock.
  
  http://blackamericans.com/blogs/news/archive/2008/01/25/about-80-of-black-babies-are-born-to-unwed-moms.aspx
  
  the scholars are united that most black children are in fact born out of wedlock.
  In fact, I dispute no such thing. Here is what the commenter is referring to:
  
  The basic conclusion is that the birth rate for unmarried black women is--and has been--declining. In 1970 the birth rate for unmarried black women was 96 per 1,000. In 1980, it was 87.9. In 2005 it was 60.6. There is a huge spike in the late 1980s, but the overall trend is clear--the birth rate for unmarried black women has been declining for almost 40 years.
  
  Something else that should add some context to that 70 percent figure which we all love. The birth rate for married black women has declined way more for married black women than it has for married white women. Also, the birth rate for unmarried women overall is on the increase, but that seems to be being driven by an increase among white and Hispanic women. It's also worth noting that the rate for unmarried black women is still waaayyyy higher than the rate for white women, while lower than the rate for Hispanic women.
  
  I was not a statistics major in college. If anyone wants to debunk these or add context, I'm totally open.
  
  The data to support this can be found here and here. In other words, no one disputes that 70 percent of black babies are born out of wedlock--or maybe they do, I never have. What we dispute are the reasons why. One notion that's gained quite a bit of currency is that over the last 40 years, black mothers have, for whatever reason, decided that they'd much rather be single mothers. But the facts don't back this up. As the data shows unmarried black women are having less, not more, kids then they were having 40 years ago. Furthermore, the number of unmarried black women having kids is declining, while the number of unmarried women--overall--having babies is increasing. From the report:
  
  In 1970 the rate for unmarried black women, 96 per 1,000, was nearly 7 times the rate for unmarried white women, 14. By 1998 this differential was just under 2; the rate for black women fell to 73 whereas the rate for white women rose to 38 per l,000.
  
  The rate for unmarried white women more than doubled from 18 per 1,000 in 1980 to 38 in 1994, and has since changed little (38 in 1998). (The rate for non-Hispanic white women has also changed little since 1994; it was 28 in 1998.) In contrast, the rate for unmarried black
  women increased about 12 percent from 81 in 1980 to 91 in 1989, and has declined steadily since, by 19 percent, to 73 per 1,000 in 1998 (figure 8 and table 3).
  
  Rates for unmarried Hispanic women are available only since1990. The rate was highest in 1994, at 101 per 1,000, and has dropped11 percent since (figure 8, table 3). The birth rate for unmarried Hispanic women is the highest of any race or ethnicity group; this is consistent with the overall fertility patterns for Hispanic women (2, 4).
  Now, you can argue, that double is still too high. What you can't argue is for any sort of "moral decline."
  
  
  How can it be true that unmarried black women are having less kids, and yet the number of black babies born out of wedlock is 70 percent? Well, that question only looks at half the equation it never asks, "What is the behavior of married black women?"
  
  
  Birth rates for married black women have declined even more than rates for unmarried black women and are now quite similar (tables 3 and 8). As a result, the proportion of births to unmarried black women remains high, 69 percent in 1999. Birth rates by age for unmarried non-Hispanic white and Hispanic women have generally stabilized or declined during the mid-1990's, while rates for married women have been increasing. Despite this, the proportions of births to unmarried non-Hispanic white and Hispanic women increased during the 1990's.
  Birth rates for married black women haven't just declined, they're actually lower than for married white women:
  
  It is important to realize that the "percent of births" is not a birth rate. The birth rate is the number of births for every 1,000 women in a specific category. The last marital birth rates calculated by the National Center for Health Statistics were for 2002. In 2002, the black marital birth rate was 64.9 births for every 1,000 married black women. The white marital birth rate was 88.2 for every 1,000 married white women. The black marital birth rate was 23.3 births less than the white rate. In the past, the black marital birth rate was higher than the white rate. Because there is such a low number of births among married black women, the percent of births to unmarried black women is especially high.
  To summarize--there is no data to show that the black "illegitimacy" figure of 70 percent has been caused by unmarried black women having more kids than they did in the past. In fact, the trend is the exact opposite. What is clear is that the behavior of married black women has changed, to the point that married black women are actually having less kids than married white women.
  
  This is why stigmatizing lifestyles is a strategy for neanderthals, why it's always sinful to look past the weeds in your lawn in order to lecture your neighbor. I'll live for the day when all these social conservatives who think that the 70 percent figure is the cause of all that's wrong in black America, start hectoring married black people to have more kids.

The math on Black out of wedlock births

 

[Asclepias]

This is for Avery. You say the same thing every time.... Nothing.

The math on Black out of wedlock births
Ta-Nehisi Coates Feb 17, 2009

TNC and others disputed that 7O percent of black children are born out of wedlock. Here is one source that supports that figure.

• Government statistics reveal that the percentage of all babies born to unwed mothers nationally rose to 32 percent in 1997 from only 5.3 percent in 1960. Among blacks nationally, 69 percent of births were to unwed mothers.
  
  http://www.dadi.org/dn_bleak.htm
  
  Here is another source that says that in Indiana, 80 percent of black children are born out of wedlock.
  
  http://blackamericans.com/blogs/news/archive/2008/01/25/about-80-of-black-babies-are-born-to-unwed-moms.aspx
  
  the scholars are united that most black children are in fact born out of wedlock.
  In fact, I dispute no such thing. Here is what the commenter is referring to:
  
  The basic conclusion is that the birth rate for unmarried black women is--and has been--declining. In 1970 the birth rate for unmarried black women was 96 per 1,000. In 1980, it was 87.9. In 2005 it was 60.6. There is a huge spike in the late 1980s, but the overall trend is clear--the birth rate for unmarried black women has been declining for almost 40 years.
  
  Something else that should add some context to that 70 percent figure which we all love. The birth rate for married black women has declined way more for married black women than it has for married white women. Also, the birth rate for unmarried women overall is on the increase, but that seems to be being driven by an increase among white and Hispanic women. It's also worth noting that the rate for unmarried black women is still waaayyyy higher than the rate for white women, while lower than the rate for Hispanic women.
  
  I was not a statistics major in college. If anyone wants to debunk these or add context, I'm totally open.
  
  The data to support this can be found here and here. In other words, no one disputes that 70 percent of black babies are born out of wedlock--or maybe they do, I never have. What we dispute are the reasons why. One notion that's gained quite a bit of currency is that over the last 40 years, black mothers have, for whatever reason, decided that they'd much rather be single mothers. But the facts don't back this up. As the data shows unmarried black women are having less, not more, kids then they were having 40 years ago. Furthermore, the number of unmarried black women having kids is declining, while the number of unmarried women--overall--having babies is increasing. From the report:
  
  In 1970 the rate for unmarried black women, 96 per 1,000, was nearly 7 times the rate for unmarried white women, 14. By 1998 this differential was just under 2; the rate for black women fell to 73 whereas the rate for white women rose to 38 per l,000.
  
  The rate for unmarried white women more than doubled from 18 per 1,000 in 1980 to 38 in 1994, and has since changed little (38 in 1998). (The rate for non-Hispanic white women has also changed little since 1994; it was 28 in 1998.) In contrast, the rate for unmarried black
  women increased about 12 percent from 81 in 1980 to 91 in 1989, and has declined steadily since, by 19 percent, to 73 per 1,000 in 1998 (figure 8 and table 3).
  
  Rates for unmarried Hispanic women are available only since1990. The rate was highest in 1994, at 101 per 1,000, and has dropped11 percent since (figure 8, table 3). The birth rate for unmarried Hispanic women is the highest of any race or ethnicity group; this is consistent with the overall fertility patterns for Hispanic women (2, 4).
  Now, you can argue, that double is still too high. What you can't argue is for any sort of "moral decline."
  
  
  How can it be true that unmarried black women are having less kids, and yet the number of black babies born out of wedlock is 70 percent? Well, that question only looks at half the equation it never asks, "What is the behavior of married black women?"
  
  
  Birth rates for married black women have declined even more than rates for unmarried black women and are now quite similar (tables 3 and 8). As a result, the proportion of births to unmarried black women remains high, 69 percent in 1999. Birth rates by age for unmarried non-Hispanic white and Hispanic women have generally stabilized or declined during the mid-1990's, while rates for married women have been increasing. Despite this, the proportions of births to unmarried non-Hispanic white and Hispanic women increased during the 1990's.
  Birth rates for married black women haven't just declined, they're actually lower than for married white women:
  
  It is important to realize that the "percent of births" is not a birth rate. The birth rate is the number of births for every 1,000 women in a specific category. The last marital birth rates calculated by the National Center for Health Statistics were for 2002. In 2002, the black marital birth rate was 64.9 births for every 1,000 married black women. The white marital birth rate was 88.2 for every 1,000 married white women. The black marital birth rate was 23.3 births less than the white rate. In the past, the black marital birth rate was higher than the white rate. Because there is such a low number of births among married black women, the percent of births to unmarried black women is especially high.
  To summarize--there is no data to show that the black "illegitimacy" figure of 70 percent has been caused by unmarried black women having more kids than they did in the past. In fact, the trend is the exact opposite. What is clear is that the behavior of married black women has changed, to the point that married black women are actually having less kids than married white women.
  
  This is why stigmatizing lifestyles is a strategy for neanderthals, why it's always sinful to look past the weeds in your lawn in order to lecture your neighbor. I'll live for the day when all these social conservatives who think that the 70 percent figure is the cause of all that's wrong in black America, start hectoring married black people to have more kids.

The math on Black out of wedlock births

The thing I like about the out of wedlock stat is that there is an assumption that the father doest live with the child because they are not married. Even if the father doesnt live with the child there is an assumption he doesnt care for the child. Mind you this is only when the father is Black that these assumptions are made.

 

[MizMolly]

This is for Avery. You say the same thing every time.... Nothing.

The math on Black out of wedlock births
Ta-Nehisi Coates Feb 17, 2009

TNC and others disputed that 7O percent of black children are born out of wedlock. Here is one source that supports that figure.

• Government statistics reveal that the percentage of all babies born to unwed mothers nationally rose to 32 percent in 1997 from only 5.3 percent in 1960. Among blacks nationally, 69 percent of births were to unwed mothers.
  
  http://www.dadi.org/dn_bleak.htm
  
  Here is another source that says that in Indiana, 80 percent of black children are born out of wedlock.
  
  http://blackamericans.com/blogs/news/archive/2008/01/25/about-80-of-black-babies-are-born-to-unwed-moms.aspx
  
  the scholars are united that most black children are in fact born out of wedlock.
  In fact, I dispute no such thing. Here is what the commenter is referring to:
  
  The basic conclusion is that the birth rate for unmarried black women is--and has been--declining. In 1970 the birth rate for unmarried black women was 96 per 1,000. In 1980, it was 87.9. In 2005 it was 60.6. There is a huge spike in the late 1980s, but the overall trend is clear--the birth rate for unmarried black women has been declining for almost 40 years.
  
  Something else that should add some context to that 70 percent figure which we all love. The birth rate for married black women has declined way more for married black women than it has for married white women. Also, the birth rate for unmarried women overall is on the increase, but that seems to be being driven by an increase among white and Hispanic women. It's also worth noting that the rate for unmarried black women is still waaayyyy higher than the rate for white women, while lower than the rate for Hispanic women.
  
  I was not a statistics major in college. If anyone wants to debunk these or add context, I'm totally open.
  
  The data to support this can be found here and here. In other words, no one disputes that 70 percent of black babies are born out of wedlock--or maybe they do, I never have. What we dispute are the reasons why. One notion that's gained quite a bit of currency is that over the last 40 years, black mothers have, for whatever reason, decided that they'd much rather be single mothers. But the facts don't back this up. As the data shows unmarried black women are having less, not more, kids then they were having 40 years ago. Furthermore, the number of unmarried black women having kids is declining, while the number of unmarried women--overall--having babies is increasing. From the report:
  
  In 1970 the rate for unmarried black women, 96 per 1,000, was nearly 7 times the rate for unmarried white women, 14. By 1998 this differential was just under 2; the rate for black women fell to 73 whereas the rate for white women rose to 38 per l,000.
  
  The rate for unmarried white women more than doubled from 18 per 1,000 in 1980 to 38 in 1994, and has since changed little (38 in 1998). (The rate for non-Hispanic white women has also changed little since 1994; it was 28 in 1998.) In contrast, the rate for unmarried black
  women increased about 12 percent from 81 in 1980 to 91 in 1989, and has declined steadily since, by 19 percent, to 73 per 1,000 in 1998 (figure 8 and table 3).
  
  Rates for unmarried Hispanic women are available only since1990. The rate was highest in 1994, at 101 per 1,000, and has dropped11 percent since (figure 8, table 3). The birth rate for unmarried Hispanic women is the highest of any race or ethnicity group; this is consistent with the overall fertility patterns for Hispanic women (2, 4).
  Now, you can argue, that double is still too high. What you can't argue is for any sort of "moral decline."
  
  
  How can it be true that unmarried black women are having less kids, and yet the number of black babies born out of wedlock is 70 percent? Well, that question only looks at half the equation it never asks, "What is the behavior of married black women?"
  
  
  Birth rates for married black women have declined even more than rates for unmarried black women and are now quite similar (tables 3 and 8). As a result, the proportion of births to unmarried black women remains high, 69 percent in 1999. Birth rates by age for unmarried non-Hispanic white and Hispanic women have generally stabilized or declined during the mid-1990's, while rates for married women have been increasing. Despite this, the proportions of births to unmarried non-Hispanic white and Hispanic women increased during the 1990's.
  Birth rates for married black women haven't just declined, they're actually lower than for married white women:
  
  It is important to realize that the "percent of births" is not a birth rate. The birth rate is the number of births for every 1,000 women in a specific category. The last marital birth rates calculated by the National Center for Health Statistics were for 2002. In 2002, the black marital birth rate was 64.9 births for every 1,000 married black women. The white marital birth rate was 88.2 for every 1,000 married white women. The black marital birth rate was 23.3 births less than the white rate. In the past, the black marital birth rate was higher than the white rate. Because there is such a low number of births among married black women, the percent of births to unmarried black women is especially high.
  To summarize--there is no data to show that the black "illegitimacy" figure of 70 percent has been caused by unmarried black women having more kids than they did in the past. In fact, the trend is the exact opposite. What is clear is that the behavior of married black women has changed, to the point that married black women are actually having less kids than married white women.
  
  This is why stigmatizing lifestyles is a strategy for neanderthals, why it's always sinful to look past the weeds in your lawn in order to lecture your neighbor. I'll live for the day when all these social conservatives who think that the 70 percent figure is the cause of all that's wrong in black America, start hectoring married black people to have more kids.

The math on Black out of wedlock births

The thing I like about the out of wedlock stat is that there is an assumption that the father doest live with the child because they are not married. Even if the father doesnt live with the child there is an assumption he doesnt care for the child. Mind you this is only when the father is Black that these assumptions are made.

No, I know plenty of white men who are deadbeat dads.

 

[Asclepias]

This is for Avery. You say the same thing every time.... Nothing.

The math on Black out of wedlock births
Ta-Nehisi Coates Feb 17, 2009

TNC and others disputed that 7O percent of black children are born out of wedlock. Here is one source that supports that figure.

• Government statistics reveal that the percentage of all babies born to unwed mothers nationally rose to 32 percent in 1997 from only 5.3 percent in 1960. Among blacks nationally, 69 percent of births were to unwed mothers.
  
  http://www.dadi.org/dn_bleak.htm
  
  Here is another source that says that in Indiana, 80 percent of black children are born out of wedlock.
  
  http://blackamericans.com/blogs/news/archive/2008/01/25/about-80-of-black-babies-are-born-to-unwed-moms.aspx
  
  the scholars are united that most black children are in fact born out of wedlock.
  In fact, I dispute no such thing. Here is what the commenter is referring to:
  
  The basic conclusion is that the birth rate for unmarried black women is--and has been--declining. In 1970 the birth rate for unmarried black women was 96 per 1,000. In 1980, it was 87.9. In 2005 it was 60.6. There is a huge spike in the late 1980s, but the overall trend is clear--the birth rate for unmarried black women has been declining for almost 40 years.
  
  Something else that should add some context to that 70 percent figure which we all love. The birth rate for married black women has declined way more for married black women than it has for married white women. Also, the birth rate for unmarried women overall is on the increase, but that seems to be being driven by an increase among white and Hispanic women. It's also worth noting that the rate for unmarried black women is still waaayyyy higher than the rate for white women, while lower than the rate for Hispanic women.
  
  I was not a statistics major in college. If anyone wants to debunk these or add context, I'm totally open.
  
  The data to support this can be found here and here. In other words, no one disputes that 70 percent of black babies are born out of wedlock--or maybe they do, I never have. What we dispute are the reasons why. One notion that's gained quite a bit of currency is that over the last 40 years, black mothers have, for whatever reason, decided that they'd much rather be single mothers. But the facts don't back this up. As the data shows unmarried black women are having less, not more, kids then they were having 40 years ago. Furthermore, the number of unmarried black women having kids is declining, while the number of unmarried women--overall--having babies is increasing. From the report:
  
  In 1970 the rate for unmarried black women, 96 per 1,000, was nearly 7 times the rate for unmarried white women, 14. By 1998 this differential was just under 2; the rate for black women fell to 73 whereas the rate for white women rose to 38 per l,000.
  
  The rate for unmarried white women more than doubled from 18 per 1,000 in 1980 to 38 in 1994, and has since changed little (38 in 1998). (The rate for non-Hispanic white women has also changed little since 1994; it was 28 in 1998.) In contrast, the rate for unmarried black
  women increased about 12 percent from 81 in 1980 to 91 in 1989, and has declined steadily since, by 19 percent, to 73 per 1,000 in 1998 (figure 8 and table 3).
  
  Rates for unmarried Hispanic women are available only since1990. The rate was highest in 1994, at 101 per 1,000, and has dropped11 percent since (figure 8, table 3). The birth rate for unmarried Hispanic women is the highest of any race or ethnicity group; this is consistent with the overall fertility patterns for Hispanic women (2, 4).
  Now, you can argue, that double is still too high. What you can't argue is for any sort of "moral decline."
  
  
  How can it be true that unmarried black women are having less kids, and yet the number of black babies born out of wedlock is 70 percent? Well, that question only looks at half the equation it never asks, "What is the behavior of married black women?"
  
  
  Birth rates for married black women have declined even more than rates for unmarried black women and are now quite similar (tables 3 and 8). As a result, the proportion of births to unmarried black women remains high, 69 percent in 1999. Birth rates by age for unmarried non-Hispanic white and Hispanic women have generally stabilized or declined during the mid-1990's, while rates for married women have been increasing. Despite this, the proportions of births to unmarried non-Hispanic white and Hispanic women increased during the 1990's.
  Birth rates for married black women haven't just declined, they're actually lower than for married white women:
  
  It is important to realize that the "percent of births" is not a birth rate. The birth rate is the number of births for every 1,000 women in a specific category. The last marital birth rates calculated by the National Center for Health Statistics were for 2002. In 2002, the black marital birth rate was 64.9 births for every 1,000 married black women. The white marital birth rate was 88.2 for every 1,000 married white women. The black marital birth rate was 23.3 births less than the white rate. In the past, the black marital birth rate was higher than the white rate. Because there is such a low number of births among married black women, the percent of births to unmarried black women is especially high.
  To summarize--there is no data to show that the black "illegitimacy" figure of 70 percent has been caused by unmarried black women having more kids than they did in the past. In fact, the trend is the exact opposite. What is clear is that the behavior of married black women has changed, to the point that married black women are actually having less kids than married white women.
  
  This is why stigmatizing lifestyles is a strategy for neanderthals, why it's always sinful to look past the weeds in your lawn in order to lecture your neighbor. I'll live for the day when all these social conservatives who think that the 70 percent figure is the cause of all that's wrong in black America, start hectoring married black people to have more kids.

The math on Black out of wedlock births

The thing I like about the out of wedlock stat is that there is an assumption that the father doest live with the child because they are not married. Even if the father doesnt live with the child there is an assumption he doesnt care for the child. Mind you this is only when the father is Black that these assumptions are made.

No, I know plenty of white men who are deadbeat dads.

I do too but that has nothing to do with what I said.

 

[MizMolly]

This is for Avery. You say the same thing every time.... Nothing.

The math on Black out of wedlock births
Ta-Nehisi Coates Feb 17, 2009

TNC and others disputed that 7O percent of black children are born out of wedlock. Here is one source that supports that figure.

• Government statistics reveal that the percentage of all babies born to unwed mothers nationally rose to 32 percent in 1997 from only 5.3 percent in 1960. Among blacks nationally, 69 percent of births were to unwed mothers.
  
  http://www.dadi.org/dn_bleak.htm
  
  Here is another source that says that in Indiana, 80 percent of black children are born out of wedlock.
  
  http://blackamericans.com/blogs/news/archive/2008/01/25/about-80-of-black-babies-are-born-to-unwed-moms.aspx
  
  the scholars are united that most black children are in fact born out of wedlock.
  In fact, I dispute no such thing. Here is what the commenter is referring to:
  
  The basic conclusion is that the birth rate for unmarried black women is--and has been--declining. In 1970 the birth rate for unmarried black women was 96 per 1,000. In 1980, it was 87.9. In 2005 it was 60.6. There is a huge spike in the late 1980s, but the overall trend is clear--the birth rate for unmarried black women has been declining for almost 40 years.
  
  Something else that should add some context to that 70 percent figure which we all love. The birth rate for married black women has declined way more for married black women than it has for married white women. Also, the birth rate for unmarried women overall is on the increase, but that seems to be being driven by an increase among white and Hispanic women. It's also worth noting that the rate for unmarried black women is still waaayyyy higher than the rate for white women, while lower than the rate for Hispanic women.
  
  I was not a statistics major in college. If anyone wants to debunk these or add context, I'm totally open.
  
  The data to support this can be found here and here. In other words, no one disputes that 70 percent of black babies are born out of wedlock--or maybe they do, I never have. What we dispute are the reasons why. One notion that's gained quite a bit of currency is that over the last 40 years, black mothers have, for whatever reason, decided that they'd much rather be single mothers. But the facts don't back this up. As the data shows unmarried black women are having less, not more, kids then they were having 40 years ago. Furthermore, the number of unmarried black women having kids is declining, while the number of unmarried women--overall--having babies is increasing. From the report:
  
  In 1970 the rate for unmarried black women, 96 per 1,000, was nearly 7 times the rate for unmarried white women, 14. By 1998 this differential was just under 2; the rate for black women fell to 73 whereas the rate for white women rose to 38 per l,000.
  
  The rate for unmarried white women more than doubled from 18 per 1,000 in 1980 to 38 in 1994, and has since changed little (38 in 1998). (The rate for non-Hispanic white women has also changed little since 1994; it was 28 in 1998.) In contrast, the rate for unmarried black
  women increased about 12 percent from 81 in 1980 to 91 in 1989, and has declined steadily since, by 19 percent, to 73 per 1,000 in 1998 (figure 8 and table 3).
  
  Rates for unmarried Hispanic women are available only since1990. The rate was highest in 1994, at 101 per 1,000, and has dropped11 percent since (figure 8, table 3). The birth rate for unmarried Hispanic women is the highest of any race or ethnicity group; this is consistent with the overall fertility patterns for Hispanic women (2, 4).
  Now, you can argue, that double is still too high. What you can't argue is for any sort of "moral decline."
  
  
  How can it be true that unmarried black women are having less kids, and yet the number of black babies born out of wedlock is 70 percent? Well, that question only looks at half the equation it never asks, "What is the behavior of married black women?"
  
  
  Birth rates for married black women have declined even more than rates for unmarried black women and are now quite similar (tables 3 and 8). As a result, the proportion of births to unmarried black women remains high, 69 percent in 1999. Birth rates by age for unmarried non-Hispanic white and Hispanic women have generally stabilized or declined during the mid-1990's, while rates for married women have been increasing. Despite this, the proportions of births to unmarried non-Hispanic white and Hispanic women increased during the 1990's.
  Birth rates for married black women haven't just declined, they're actually lower than for married white women:
  
  It is important to realize that the "percent of births" is not a birth rate. The birth rate is the number of births for every 1,000 women in a specific category. The last marital birth rates calculated by the National Center for Health Statistics were for 2002. In 2002, the black marital birth rate was 64.9 births for every 1,000 married black women. The white marital birth rate was 88.2 for every 1,000 married white women. The black marital birth rate was 23.3 births less than the white rate. In the past, the black marital birth rate was higher than the white rate. Because there is such a low number of births among married black women, the percent of births to unmarried black women is especially high.
  To summarize--there is no data to show that the black "illegitimacy" figure of 70 percent has been caused by unmarried black women having more kids than they did in the past. In fact, the trend is the exact opposite. What is clear is that the behavior of married black women has changed, to the point that married black women are actually having less kids than married white women.
  
  This is why stigmatizing lifestyles is a strategy for neanderthals, why it's always sinful to look past the weeds in your lawn in order to lecture your neighbor. I'll live for the day when all these social conservatives who think that the 70 percent figure is the cause of all that's wrong in black America, start hectoring married black people to have more kids.

The math on Black out of wedlock births

The thing I like about the out of wedlock stat is that there is an assumption that the father doest live with the child because they are not married. Even if the father doesnt live with the child there is an assumption he doesnt care for the child. Mind you this is only when the father is Black that these assumptions are made.

No, I know plenty of white men who are deadbeat dads.

I do too but that has nothing to do with what I said.

Yes it does. You said the assumptions that a father doesn't care for his children is only made when the father is black. I disagree, there are a lot of white deadbeat dads too.

 

[Asclepias]

This is for Avery. You say the same thing every time.... Nothing.

The math on Black out of wedlock births
Ta-Nehisi Coates Feb 17, 2009

TNC and others disputed that 7O percent of black children are born out of wedlock. Here is one source that supports that figure.

• Government statistics reveal that the percentage of all babies born to unwed mothers nationally rose to 32 percent in 1997 from only 5.3 percent in 1960. Among blacks nationally, 69 percent of births were to unwed mothers.
  
  http://www.dadi.org/dn_bleak.htm
  
  Here is another source that says that in Indiana, 80 percent of black children are born out of wedlock.
  
  http://blackamericans.com/blogs/news/archive/2008/01/25/about-80-of-black-babies-are-born-to-unwed-moms.aspx
  
  the scholars are united that most black children are in fact born out of wedlock.
  In fact, I dispute no such thing. Here is what the commenter is referring to:
  
  The basic conclusion is that the birth rate for unmarried black women is--and has been--declining. In 1970 the birth rate for unmarried black women was 96 per 1,000. In 1980, it was 87.9. In 2005 it was 60.6. There is a huge spike in the late 1980s, but the overall trend is clear--the birth rate for unmarried black women has been declining for almost 40 years.
  
  Something else that should add some context to that 70 percent figure which we all love. The birth rate for married black women has declined way more for married black women than it has for married white women. Also, the birth rate for unmarried women overall is on the increase, but that seems to be being driven by an increase among white and Hispanic women. It's also worth noting that the rate for unmarried black women is still waaayyyy higher than the rate for white women, while lower than the rate for Hispanic women.
  
  I was not a statistics major in college. If anyone wants to debunk these or add context, I'm totally open.
  
  The data to support this can be found here and here. In other words, no one disputes that 70 percent of black babies are born out of wedlock--or maybe they do, I never have. What we dispute are the reasons why. One notion that's gained quite a bit of currency is that over the last 40 years, black mothers have, for whatever reason, decided that they'd much rather be single mothers. But the facts don't back this up. As the data shows unmarried black women are having less, not more, kids then they were having 40 years ago. Furthermore, the number of unmarried black women having kids is declining, while the number of unmarried women--overall--having babies is increasing. From the report:
  
  In 1970 the rate for unmarried black women, 96 per 1,000, was nearly 7 times the rate for unmarried white women, 14. By 1998 this differential was just under 2; the rate for black women fell to 73 whereas the rate for white women rose to 38 per l,000.
  
  The rate for unmarried white women more than doubled from 18 per 1,000 in 1980 to 38 in 1994, and has since changed little (38 in 1998). (The rate for non-Hispanic white women has also changed little since 1994; it was 28 in 1998.) In contrast, the rate for unmarried black
  women increased about 12 percent from 81 in 1980 to 91 in 1989, and has declined steadily since, by 19 percent, to 73 per 1,000 in 1998 (figure 8 and table 3).
  
  Rates for unmarried Hispanic women are available only since1990. The rate was highest in 1994, at 101 per 1,000, and has dropped11 percent since (figure 8, table 3). The birth rate for unmarried Hispanic women is the highest of any race or ethnicity group; this is consistent with the overall fertility patterns for Hispanic women (2, 4).
  Now, you can argue, that double is still too high. What you can't argue is for any sort of "moral decline."
  
  
  How can it be true that unmarried black women are having less kids, and yet the number of black babies born out of wedlock is 70 percent? Well, that question only looks at half the equation it never asks, "What is the behavior of married black women?"
  
  
  Birth rates for married black women have declined even more than rates for unmarried black women and are now quite similar (tables 3 and 8). As a result, the proportion of births to unmarried black women remains high, 69 percent in 1999. Birth rates by age for unmarried non-Hispanic white and Hispanic women have generally stabilized or declined during the mid-1990's, while rates for married women have been increasing. Despite this, the proportions of births to unmarried non-Hispanic white and Hispanic women increased during the 1990's.
  Birth rates for married black women haven't just declined, they're actually lower than for married white women:
  
  It is important to realize that the "percent of births" is not a birth rate. The birth rate is the number of births for every 1,000 women in a specific category. The last marital birth rates calculated by the National Center for Health Statistics were for 2002. In 2002, the black marital birth rate was 64.9 births for every 1,000 married black women. The white marital birth rate was 88.2 for every 1,000 married white women. The black marital birth rate was 23.3 births less than the white rate. In the past, the black marital birth rate was higher than the white rate. Because there is such a low number of births among married black women, the percent of births to unmarried black women is especially high.
  To summarize--there is no data to show that the black "illegitimacy" figure of 70 percent has been caused by unmarried black women having more kids than they did in the past. In fact, the trend is the exact opposite. What is clear is that the behavior of married black women has changed, to the point that married black women are actually having less kids than married white women.
  
  This is why stigmatizing lifestyles is a strategy for neanderthals, why it's always sinful to look past the weeds in your lawn in order to lecture your neighbor. I'll live for the day when all these social conservatives who think that the 70 percent figure is the cause of all that's wrong in black America, start hectoring married black people to have more kids.

The math on Black out of wedlock births

The thing I like about the out of wedlock stat is that there is an assumption that the father doest live with the child because they are not married. Even if the father doesnt live with the child there is an assumption he doesnt care for the child. Mind you this is only when the father is Black that these assumptions are made.

No, I know plenty of white men who are deadbeat dads.

I do too but that has nothing to do with what I said.

Yes it does. You said the assumptions that a father doesn't care for his children is only made when the father is black. I disagree, there are a lot of white deadbeat dads too.

You disagree. Whites in general pretend there are no deadbeat white dads. Thats why they try and trot out that stat. Then they get pissed off when I trot out the stat that says Black men are actually more attentive fathers.

 

[MizMolly]

This is for Avery. You say the same thing every time.... Nothing.

The math on Black out of wedlock births
Ta-Nehisi Coates Feb 17, 2009

TNC and others disputed that 7O percent of black children are born out of wedlock. Here is one source that supports that figure.

• Government statistics reveal that the percentage of all babies born to unwed mothers nationally rose to 32 percent in 1997 from only 5.3 percent in 1960. Among blacks nationally, 69 percent of births were to unwed mothers.
  
  http://www.dadi.org/dn_bleak.htm
  
  Here is another source that says that in Indiana, 80 percent of black children are born out of wedlock.
  
  http://blackamericans.com/blogs/news/archive/2008/01/25/about-80-of-black-babies-are-born-to-unwed-moms.aspx
  
  the scholars are united that most black children are in fact born out of wedlock.
  In fact, I dispute no such thing. Here is what the commenter is referring to:
  
  The basic conclusion is that the birth rate for unmarried black women is--and has been--declining. In 1970 the birth rate for unmarried black women was 96 per 1,000. In 1980, it was 87.9. In 2005 it was 60.6. There is a huge spike in the late 1980s, but the overall trend is clear--the birth rate for unmarried black women has been declining for almost 40 years.
  
  Something else that should add some context to that 70 percent figure which we all love. The birth rate for married black women has declined way more for married black women than it has for married white women. Also, the birth rate for unmarried women overall is on the increase, but that seems to be being driven by an increase among white and Hispanic women. It's also worth noting that the rate for unmarried black women is still waaayyyy higher than the rate for white women, while lower than the rate for Hispanic women.
  
  I was not a statistics major in college. If anyone wants to debunk these or add context, I'm totally open.
  
  The data to support this can be found here and here. In other words, no one disputes that 70 percent of black babies are born out of wedlock--or maybe they do, I never have. What we dispute are the reasons why. One notion that's gained quite a bit of currency is that over the last 40 years, black mothers have, for whatever reason, decided that they'd much rather be single mothers. But the facts don't back this up. As the data shows unmarried black women are having less, not more, kids then they were having 40 years ago. Furthermore, the number of unmarried black women having kids is declining, while the number of unmarried women--overall--having babies is increasing. From the report:
  
  In 1970 the rate for unmarried black women, 96 per 1,000, was nearly 7 times the rate for unmarried white women, 14. By 1998 this differential was just under 2; the rate for black women fell to 73 whereas the rate for white women rose to 38 per l,000.
  
  The rate for unmarried white women more than doubled from 18 per 1,000 in 1980 to 38 in 1994, and has since changed little (38 in 1998). (The rate for non-Hispanic white women has also changed little since 1994; it was 28 in 1998.) In contrast, the rate for unmarried black
  women increased about 12 percent from 81 in 1980 to 91 in 1989, and has declined steadily since, by 19 percent, to 73 per 1,000 in 1998 (figure 8 and table 3).
  
  Rates for unmarried Hispanic women are available only since1990. The rate was highest in 1994, at 101 per 1,000, and has dropped11 percent since (figure 8, table 3). The birth rate for unmarried Hispanic women is the highest of any race or ethnicity group; this is consistent with the overall fertility patterns for Hispanic women (2, 4).
  Now, you can argue, that double is still too high. What you can't argue is for any sort of "moral decline."
  
  
  How can it be true that unmarried black women are having less kids, and yet the number of black babies born out of wedlock is 70 percent? Well, that question only looks at half the equation it never asks, "What is the behavior of married black women?"
  
  
  Birth rates for married black women have declined even more than rates for unmarried black women and are now quite similar (tables 3 and 8). As a result, the proportion of births to unmarried black women remains high, 69 percent in 1999. Birth rates by age for unmarried non-Hispanic white and Hispanic women have generally stabilized or declined during the mid-1990's, while rates for married women have been increasing. Despite this, the proportions of births to unmarried non-Hispanic white and Hispanic women increased during the 1990's.
  Birth rates for married black women haven't just declined, they're actually lower than for married white women:
  
  It is important to realize that the "percent of births" is not a birth rate. The birth rate is the number of births for every 1,000 women in a specific category. The last marital birth rates calculated by the National Center for Health Statistics were for 2002. In 2002, the black marital birth rate was 64.9 births for every 1,000 married black women. The white marital birth rate was 88.2 for every 1,000 married white women. The black marital birth rate was 23.3 births less than the white rate. In the past, the black marital birth rate was higher than the white rate. Because there is such a low number of births among married black women, the percent of births to unmarried black women is especially high.
  To summarize--there is no data to show that the black "illegitimacy" figure of 70 percent has been caused by unmarried black women having more kids than they did in the past. In fact, the trend is the exact opposite. What is clear is that the behavior of married black women has changed, to the point that married black women are actually having less kids than married white women.
  
  This is why stigmatizing lifestyles is a strategy for neanderthals, why it's always sinful to look past the weeds in your lawn in order to lecture your neighbor. I'll live for the day when all these social conservatives who think that the 70 percent figure is the cause of all that's wrong in black America, start hectoring married black people to have more kids.

The math on Black out of wedlock births

The thing I like about the out of wedlock stat is that there is an assumption that the father doest live with the child because they are not married. Even if the father doesnt live with the child there is an assumption he doesnt care for the child. Mind you this is only when the father is Black that these assumptions are made.

No, I know plenty of white men who are deadbeat dads.

I do too but that has nothing to do with what I said.

Yes it does. You said the assumptions that a father doesn't care for his children is only made when the father is black. I disagree, there are a lot of white deadbeat dads too.

You disagree. Whites in general pretend there are no deadbeat white dads. Thats why they try and trot out that stat. Then they get pissed off when I trot out the stat that says Black men are actually more attentive fathers.

I KNOW there are deadbeat white dads. two of my sisters married assholes who left and didnt take care of their kids. I don't care what color a man or woman is, take care of your kids.

 

[Asclepias]

The thing I like about the out of wedlock stat is that there is an assumption that the father doest live with the child because they are not married. Even if the father doesnt live with the child there is an assumption he doesnt care for the child. Mind you this is only when the father is Black that these assumptions are made.

No, I know plenty of white men who are deadbeat dads.

I do too but that has nothing to do with what I said.

Yes it does. You said the assumptions that a father doesn't care for his children is only made when the father is black. I disagree, there are a lot of white deadbeat dads too.

You disagree. Whites in general pretend there are no deadbeat white dads. Thats why they try and trot out that stat. Then they get pissed off when I trot out the stat that says Black men are actually more attentive fathers.

I KNOW there are deadbeat white dads. two of my sisters married assholes who left and didnt take care of their kids. I don't care what color a man or woman is, take care of your kids.

You may know but you dont make up the rest of the white population. My point is that whites always use the "out of wedlock" argument as if not being married makes you a deadbeat father.

 

[MizMolly]

No, I know plenty of white men who are deadbeat dads.

I do too but that has nothing to do with what I said.

Yes it does. You said the assumptions that a father doesn't care for his children is only made when the father is black. I disagree, there are a lot of white deadbeat dads too.

You disagree. Whites in general pretend there are no deadbeat white dads. Thats why they try and trot out that stat. Then they get pissed off when I trot out the stat that says Black men are actually more attentive fathers.

I KNOW there are deadbeat white dads. two of my sisters married assholes who left and didnt take care of their kids. I don't care what color a man or woman is, take care of your kids.

You may know but you dont make up the rest of the white population. My point is that whites always use the "out of wedlock" argument as if not being married makes you a deadbeat father.

All the whites I know feel the way I do, except for the deadbeats.

 

[Taz]

Your hatred seethes through your post, just thought you'd like to know. I'm not trying to change you, I don't care about that, I just wanted you to know how you come off, like a total white hating racist. Now why should anyone take anything you rant about seriously?

You are a white racist, how I come off to you is what you deserve to get. Again, your attempts at tone policing is not going to stop anything. It doesn't matter how it's presented, because you'll say the same thing about how people hate all whites. That's your built in excuse so you can deny the truth. So how long are we going to wait for you to man up and explain why blacks could possibly be mad at whites?

I dunno why blacks would be mad at whites. We brought you over, freed you, gave you equal rights, you can go for the "American Dream"... Compared to Africa, you have it really good here. So why ARE you so mad?

Did you read what you posted? Are you serious?

Everyone went through hard times, even whites, to make it in America, and to make America what it is today. You just want to bitch at history.

Not how it happened. I know you have to lie to yourself, but you need to just lie to yourself and stop trying to tell me how your lie is the way things are.

So you're saying that only black people had a tough time in America since the pilgrims first came here? Is that your final answer?