Are we an impolite society?

Okay ... again but slowly this time:

What ... is ... considered ... impolite ... changes ... with ... the ... times ... and ... places.

I think it's rude for people to talk on their phones in public, but I have to deal with it, why? Because most people don't think it is, get it now?

That was pretty rude. Personally, talking on the cellphone in public is not necessarily rude if volume is kept at a minimum. But I wholeheartedly disagree with the premise that because the majority of America is impolite that we just have to go along with their behavior.

We don't have to follow the herd.
 
That was pretty rude. Personally, talking on the cellphone in public is not necessarily rude if volume is kept at a minimum. But I wholeheartedly disagree with the premise that because the majority of America is impolite that we just have to go along with their behavior.

We don't have to follow the herd.

1. I don't believe that the majority of America IS impolite.
2. Define impolite. Do you follow Judith Martin's advice, to the letter?
3. What was polite 40 years ago is not necessarily polite today.

"impolite" is, in and of itself, a subjective term.

But, carry on with the hand-wringing if it makes you feel better.

By the way, this is a great site that compares etiquette over about 100 years:

http://www.missabigail.com/advice/index.html
 
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That was pretty rude. Personally, talking on the cellphone in public is not necessarily rude if volume is kept at a minimum. But I wholeheartedly disagree with the premise that because the majority of America is impolite that we just have to go along with their behavior.

We don't have to follow the herd.

Hmm ... so those who are on the 'moral high ground' in this thread have also been rude at many points in here. One such rudeness that never ceases to amaze me is that towards religions other than their own .... or those of alternate lifestyles or sexualities ... or ... well you get the hint. The problem is this: what one person considers rude another may not, what one person considers polite another may consider immoral or evil.
 
there comes a point to say the lowest denominator wins. This certainly is in contention. In any case, my time here regarding such is done.

Is the not-so-veiled insult in your post impolite? Just wondering.

I would not say that I have impeccable manners. But, I'm a gracious hostess, a giving person, and I make it a point to pay it forward in daily life. I don't notice an epidemic of rudeness. But then, I'm too busy to look for one, too.

;)
 
1. I don't believe that the majority of America IS impolite.
2. Define impolite. Do you follow Judith Martin's advice, to the letter?
3. What was polite 40 years ago is not necessarily polite today.

"impolite" is, in and of itself, a subjective term.

But, carry on with the hand-wringing if it makes you feel better.

We are talking about TODAY not 40 years ago.

Do you agree or disagree that not letting a pregnant lady take your seat if you are able-bodied, is impolite?

Do you agree or disagree that talking loudly on the phone on a bus is impolite?

Do you agree or disagree that not sending a thank you card or making a phone call after receiving a present is impolite?
 
We are talking about TODAY not 40 years ago.

"Polite" is a subjective term that is meaningless unless it is fully defined and we are doing a time-basis comparison. Polite, compared to what? Polite, defined as what?
Do you agree or disagree that not letting a pregnant lady take your seat if you are able-bodied, is impolite?

What sort of seat should I be offering? I rarely ride buses or trains, but if I do, I will always offer my seat to someone who is less able-bodied or older. HOWEVER, do you have any statistical data that suggests that people have stopped doing this? Furthermore, in what situations is someone required to offer up their seat? Am I obligated to give a pregnant woman my first class seat on an airplane, for instance? Who decides what the rules are in that context? Etiquette and manners are in a constant state of evolution, and they are always developing.

Your contention is solely based upon a hand-wringing commentary that loudly decries the descent of human society into barbarism. The fact of the matter is that it was a whole lot more barbaric 40-50 years ago than it is right now, on the basis of human rights, alone.

For instance, cell phones hardly existed 20 years ago. It's unsurprising that the etiquette surrounding them is still in a state of flux and there is no clear-cut, definitive rule for how they should be handled.

Do you not understand that the discussion, as you've posited it, is incredibly subjective? Or are you more interested in wringing your hands about how everything has gone into the toilet these days than thinking about this logically?
 
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"Polite" is a subjective term that is meaningless unless it is fully defined and we are doing a time-basis comparison. Polite, compared to what? Polite, defined as what?


What sort of seat should I be offering? I rarely ride buses or trains, but if I do, I will always offer my seat to someone who is less able-bodied or older. HOWEVER, do you have any statistical data that suggests that people have stopped doing this? Furthermore, in what situations is someone required to offer up their seat? Am I obligated to give a pregnant woman my first class seat on an airplane, for instance? Who decides what the rules are in that context? Etiquette and manners are in a constant state of evolution, and they are always developing.

Your contention is solely based upon a hand-wringing commentary that loudly decries the descent of human society into barbarism. The fact of the matter is that it was a whole lot more barbaric 40-50 years ago than it is right now, on the basis of human rights, alone.

For instance, cell phones hardly existed 20 years ago. It's unsurprising that the etiquette surrounding them is still in a state of flux and there is no clear-cut, definitive rule for how they should be handled.

Do you not understand that the discussion, as you've posited it, is incredibly subjective? Or are you more interested in wringing your hands about how everything has gone into the toilet these days than thinking about this logically?

Somehow the image of me wringing my hands is quite pleasing to you! LOL!

I don't think we need to pay $$ to have someone do a study about this topic. Perhaps just talking about it and teaching our children and students at school what is proper courteous behavior may be suffice to make a change in society.

I'm not saying we have to follow Emily Post to the letter. Although, I would like it if everybody did... But, to deny that there isn't rudeness in our society because the standards have changed is not a good argument. If we took a poll about what we would classify as being polite/impolite, there would be a concensus.

Catz, I would like to discuss this with you further, but this baby's got to go to bed. It was good talking to you. :)
 
No, Catz made a great point, what is polite changes with the culture and times. For instance spitting on someone here is a grave insult, but there is a country where spitting on someone is actually a blessing to them (it actually exists I am just too lazy to find the link). Another, here throwing a shoe at someone is assault while in the Middle East it's just an insult. 20 years ago it was illegal to spit on the sidewalk, it would land you 30 days in jail or a 30 dollar fine, now I see it all the time by the 'polite' people. It's relative to where you live and the when you live. Of course it takes higher brain function to understand this it would seem. Now THAT was rude of me ....

A demonstration of the fact that it is possible to find a justification for pretty much any position.
 
Perhaps just talking about it and teaching our children and students at school what is proper courteous behavior may be suffice to make a change in society.

I'm not saying we have to follow Emily Post to the letter. Although, I would like it if everybody did... But, to deny that there isn't rudeness in our society because the standards have changed is not a good argument. If we took a poll about what we would classify as being polite/impolite, there would be a concensus.

Catz, I would like to discuss this with you further, but this baby's got to go to bed. It was good talking to you. :)

Proper courteous behavior is a subjective idea that changes over time. That's my point. ;)
 
We are talking about TODAY not 40 years ago.

Do you agree or disagree that not letting a pregnant lady take your seat if you are able-bodied, is impolite?

Do you agree or disagree that talking loudly on the phone on a bus is impolite?

Do you agree or disagree that not sending a thank you card or making a phone call after receiving a present is impolite?

Well, as a pregnant woman, let me just say that I find it very impolite, and also asking for trouble, not to be courteous to me. ;) On the other hand, I've found that most people are.

People just don't teach their children how to behave any more, and they carry that into adulthood. The other day, I was grocery shopping, and talking to my husband on the cell phone because I have baby brain and knew there was something he wanted me to get, but couldn't remember what it was. I got in the checkout line and ended my call by saying, "I'm checking out, so I need to hang up now." I put the phone in my purse, and the cashier said, "Thank you, but you didn't have to. Most people don't." Having done cashier work before myself, I know perfectly well that most people don't, and it's a pain and a half to try to communicate with them while they're chattering away, which is why I do it. I expect the cashier's undivided attention during my transaction, so the least I can do in return is to pay attention to her so that we can complete it quickly.

I suck at thank-you notes except for official occasions like wedding or baby showers, but I always make a point of a personal thank-you and acknowledgement. And when someone does me a special favor, such as my next-door neighbor fixing my car, I like to give a little gift in return, such as a dish of homemade candy.
 
Oh, and I should point out that I am also vindictive enough to take my revenge on certain people who behave as though they are the only people in the world. I never fail to be amazed by the number of people who go shopping in the week before Christmas and slop their cars into the parking space any which way, taking up two spaces as though no one else in the city is doing last-minute shopping, or park in the handicapped space because they'll "just be a minute". For these occasions, I carry a supply of chewing gum, which can be quickly mushed up and planted under the handle of the driver's side door. I know someone else who carries a small bar of hotel soap in her purse in order to write rude messages on the offender's windshield, but that's more effort than I care to go to.
 
There are standards of "etiquette" that ought to be more or less universal in that they range on the border of being more serious "ethical" issues. For instance, giving a seat on a bus to an elderly or ill person ought to be considered a "courteous" behavior in that such a person is in greater need of a seat, and to give up your seat would be to grant such a person considerable relief without sacrificing anything of comparable moral significance if you are able-bodied.

However, there are components of "etiquette" that I would gladly do without, such as prudery and taboos against profanity. There are also forms of "courteous" speech that I have little love for. Trivial as they may seem, they establish a framework for larger societal states of affairs. Consider George Orwell's commentary about the Spanish region of Aragon during the Spanish Revolution, written in his Homage to Catalonia.

"Many of the normal motives of civilized life--snobbishness, money-grubbing, fear of the boss, etc.--had simply ceased to exist. The ordinary class-division of society had disappeared to an extent that is almost unthinkable in the money-tainted air of England; there was no one there except the peasants and ourselves, and no one owned anyone else as his master...Waiters and shop-walkers looked you in the face and treated you as an equal. Servile and even ceremonial forms of speech had temporarily disappeared. Nobody said 'Senor' or 'Don' or even 'Ústed'; everyone called everyone else 'Comrade' or 'Thou', and said 'Salud!' instead of 'Buenos días'. Tipping had been forbidden by law since the time of Primo de Rivera; almost my first experience was receiving a lecture from a hotel manager for trying to tip a lift-boy...In outward appearance it was a town in which the wealthy classes had practically ceased to exist. Except for a small number of women and foreigners there were no 'well-dressed' people at all. Practically everyone wore rough working-class clothes, or blue overalls or some variant of militia uniform. All this was queer and moving. There was much in this that I did not understand, in some ways I did not even like it, but I recognized it immediately as a state of affairs worth fighting for."

To me, such a society would not seem "discourteous" in the least.
 
A new year's resolution: Could we be a little more polite, please?

Fuck that.

Just kiddding.

I never understood the mythology about some bygone era when people were supposedly kinder and more polite.

I don't think it existed. I think some things are better now, some things are worse.

50 or a 100 years ago, blacks were treated as subhuman. Women couldn't vote. Wives and children could get the shit beat out of them, and society would turn a blind eye - it was a husband's right. A man could date rape a woman, a white could string up a black from a tree, and the law and the courts would let it slide. Business, government, and power were the province of white christian men. No one else need apply.

I don't think society was kinder, gentler, or more egalitarian in the 1920 or 1950s than it is today.

Maybe people cursed less back then. Maybe men held the door for women more often. But, I'll trade the curse words for the social progress and equality we've made.
 
Oh, and I should point out that I am also vindictive enough to take my revenge on certain people who behave as though they are the only people in the world. I never fail to be amazed by the number of people who go shopping in the week before Christmas and slop their cars into the parking space any which way, taking up two spaces as though no one else in the city is doing last-minute shopping, or park in the handicapped space because they'll "just be a minute". For these occasions, I carry a supply of chewing gum, which can be quickly mushed up and planted under the handle of the driver's side door. I know someone else who carries a small bar of hotel soap in her purse in order to write rude messages on the offender's windshield, but that's more effort than I care to go to.

Why am I not surprised that Cecilie views herself as the passive aggressive enforcer of courtesies?
 
I always got a kick out of this being from NYC

New York (!) named politest city - Life- msnbc.com

New Yorkers are a polite bunch. No, really, they are. So says Reader’s Digest.

The magazine sent reporters “undercover” to 36 cities, in 35 countries, to measure courtesy. New York was the only American city on the list.

In a city with a reputation for being in-your-face, New Yorkers seem to be expressing themselves with a new one-finger salute: a raised pinkie. In fact, they seem to have even better manners than people in London, Toronto and Moscow.
 
I taught my older boys to be polite, and my younger kids already know open doors for people.

My boys would always help out the elderly, and women of any age or appearance. They will shovel, push, lift, lead, stabilize, whatever without even breaking stride.
 
New Yorkers are a polite bunch. No, really, they are. So says Reader’s Digest.

I've always found the folks from NYC to be an incredibly gracious bunch of people. I've had quite a lot of business dealings with people up there in my field, and they have all been some of the most cordial and welcoming people imaginable. Particularly, the coppers I've worked with from Brooklyn were the best of all. I've come to believe that the native New Yorkers are some of the best people in the U.S.
 
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I've always found the folks from NYC to be an incredibly gracious bunch of people. I've had quite a lot of business dealings with people up there in my field, and they have all been some of the most cordial and welcoming people imaginable. Particularly, the coppers I've worked with from Brooklyn, in particular. I've come to believe that the native New Yorkers are some of the best people in the U.S.

I can vouch for that.
 

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