Are we Americans....

[Annie]

Originally posted by MrMarbles
Settle down Kathy, France has it's ups and downs, so does the States. They have a right to support you or not, they didn't, leave them alone. Lots of other countries and your own nation were opposed to the war, why aren't you harassing them?

Hey marbles, who the f cares what they do? It's not 'me' but US and we don't have to pay diddleysquat to France.

 

[nycflasher]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by nycflasher
Anyone else find it ironic that as George Bush met with Chirac this weekend:

1. It is the 60th Anniversary of D-Day.
2. President Ronald "Tear down the Wall" Reagan dies.
3. It is the 60th anniversary of D-Day.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally posted by insein
How is that irony?

Not sure exactly where I was going with that...

Maybe ironic because it was the anniversary of the biggest reason many Americans are pissed off at the French. We helped save them from Hitler and now they won't help save the world from terrorists.

 

[nycflasher]

Originally posted by Gop guy
still mad at the French?

Is it time to forgive and forget? I say not yet, but that's just me.

IMO, it hardly matters. Our biggest concern now is getting Bush out of office and fighting terrorism. France will do what they will, and we can't stop them. We can keep trying to get them on board, though.

 

[Zhukov]

Originally posted by nycflasher
Our biggest concern now is getting Bush out of office and fighting terrorism.

That strikes me as paradoxical.

 

[MrMarbles]

They don't want to go to Iraq, fine don't go, no one was forcing them to; but why actively get in our way when we're trying to depose a tyrant and liberate millions of people? All they had to do was keep quiet. Wouldn't their pride let them? Seems not.

France is a memeber of the UN security council, when they States went to the Security council for approval France had they right to argue against your case.

 

[EuroIrish]

France represented the views of the vast majority of the PEOPLE of the World, they also represented the vast majority of people of democratic nations (both not necessarily the same thing), they also where representing a large proportion of U.S. citizens views when they took their stance at the U.N. I have never seen the admiration that a French person now receives here in Ireland. I have heard from friends across Europe, New Zealand, & Australia the same. The Germans have increased in popularity but not as much. However the French where always held high in Ireland, a lot has to do with their continued historical support for Ireland. This respect has grown also within the E.U. But that is a tangent. France did not block the U.S. to disrespect or annoy the United States, but because they believed that they where doing the right & just thing just as the United States wrongly believed it was doing, now proven throw the lack of W.M.D., through the lack of a threat to the United States, the West or even Iraqis enemies, the lack of stability, they increased risk of terrorism, the creation of new targets for terrorists, (thanks a lot), the unnecessary deaths of U.S., Iraqi, & coalition troops, not to mention the tens of thousands of Iraqi civilians. It has also led to America imitating the very scourge they claimed to be fighting.

G.W.B. out, its time for regime change in Washington, save the great nation of America. If you want a little help the Republic of Irelands always willing to help J

 

[Annie]

EuroIrish, can you explain why so many Europeans feel compelled to voice an opinion on our elections?

Is it because the US is so powerful?
Their own governments so ineffectual?

 

[freeandfun1]

Originally posted by EuroIrish
France represented the views of the vast majority of the PEOPLE of the World, they also represented the vast majority of people of democratic nations (both not necessarily the same thing), they also where representing a large proportion of U.S. citizens views when they took their stance at the U.N. I have never seen the admiration that a French person now receives here in Ireland. I have heard from friends across Europe, New Zealand, & Australia the same. The Germans have increased in popularity but not as much. However the French where always held high in Ireland, a lot has to do with their continued historical support for Ireland. This respect has grown also within the E.U. But that is a tangent. France did not block the U.S. to disrespect or annoy the United States, but because they believed that they where doing the right & just thing just as the United States wrongly believed it was doing, now proven throw the lack of W.M.D., through the lack of a threat to the United States, the West or even Iraqis enemies, the lack of stability, they increased risk of terrorism, the creation of new targets for terrorists, (thanks a lot), the unnecessary deaths of U.S., Iraqi, & coalition troops, not to mention the tens of thousands of Iraqi civilians. It has also led to America imitating the very scourge they claimed to be fighting.

G.W.B. out, its time for regime change in Washington, save the great nation of America. If you want a little help the Republic of Irelands always willing to help J

your ID should read "EuroTrash".

 

[Zhukov]

Originally posted by MrMarbles
France is a memeber of the UN security council, when they States went to the Security council for approval France had they right to argue against your case.

Of course they did. I never said they didn't. I'm saying they shouldn't have. Once upon a time what America thought was best was good enough for the rest of the free world. But now that the Euro's don't have a Soviet Empire breathing down their neck, they've happily kicked us to the curb. They didn't object to this Iraqi war on principle. They objected to it because a.) they didn't want to be seen as subservient to us, and b.) they didn't want their illegal economic ties to Hussein to be revealed.

EuroIrish
France represented the views of the vast majority of the PEOPLE of the World, they also represented the vast majority of people of democratic nations

India was on our side. That's a billion people in democratic nations. Care to tally up the other side. Oh, I'm sorry, what you meant by 'democratic nations' was english speaking or western European democratic nations. My mistake.

And I'm so happy the French and Germans are popular in Ireland.

France did not block the U.S. to disrespect or annoy the United States, but because they believed that they where doing the right & just thing

Right and just? Right.

http://www.vote.com/magazine/columns/dickmorris/column60024236.phtml

http://www.heritage.org/Research/MiddleEast/wm217.cfm

Did you know the only fatality in the Israeli bombing of the French-built nuclear reactor in Iraq was a frenchman?

This article has a nice picture of Saddam and Chirac.

http://www.factsofisrael.com/blog/archives/000622.html

 

[MrMarbles]

Originally posted by Zhukov
Of course they did. I never said they didn't. I'm saying they shouldn't have. Once upon a time what America thought was best was good enough for the rest of the free world. But now that the Euro's don't have a Soviet Empire breathing down their neck, they've happily kicked us to the curb. They didn't object to this Iraqi war on principle. They objected to it because a.) they didn't want to be seen as subservient to us, and b.) they didn't want their illegal economic ties to Hussein to be revealed.



India was on our side. That's a billion people in democratic nations. Care to tally up the other side. Oh, I'm sorry, what you meant by 'democratic nations' was english speaking or western European democratic nations. My mistake.

And I'm so happy the French and Germans are popular in Ireland.



Right and just? Right.

http://www.vote.com/magazine/columns/dickmorris/column60024236.phtml

http://www.heritage.org/Research/MiddleEast/wm217.cfm

Did you know the only fatality in the Israeli bombing of the French-built nuclear reactor in Iraq was a frenchman?

This article has a nice picture of Saddam and Chirac.

http://www.factsofisrael.com/blog/archives/000622.html

France could of Veto the whole thing, and not let it pass at all. They let it go to a vote, and it was defeated fairly, unfortunately, fair tends to only work for America, when it helps America.

 

[MrMarbles]

Just curious, why Zhukov?

 

[Zhukov]

Originally posted by MrMarbles

unfortunately, fair tends to only work for America, when it helps America.

There you go again. Who ever said it wasn't fair? I'm not discussing the 'fairness' of it all. My aim is to point out the myopic self-interest, the moral cowardice and confusion, and the abject hypocrisy of France when it comes to confronting evil. A trait characteristic of many of our socialist-leaning 'allies' in Western Europe.

Besides, 1441 was sufficient. Here's another point: when you can't back up your own words, you prove yourself feckless. What a great message to send to genocidal dictators around the world: "we're not serious. do whatever the hell you want."

Just curious, why Zhukov?

Because he, perhaps more than any other single individual, destroyed the Third Reich, which makes him a hero in my book.

 

[EuroIrish]

To the person whose only response was to say may handle should be Eurotrash, what the hell that phrase means, I always wondered, it sounds rather stupid to me. Please do tell, please do. Now go to back to bed, I heard the bedtime in the orphanage was half past eight.

More seriously, Europeans are interested in American elections for the exact same way we stuck our nose in to Frances local elections, when Petan wanted to bully Muslims, Jews, non-whites, socialists, the centre left & citizens of other E.U. nations living in France. The French Centre, Left, & moderate right joined together in a joint effort along with support throughout the Union to destroy the fascist scourge. We kept the far-right at bay in Austria and also in the United Kingdom. Europeans seek the highest standards from other Europeans and also from countries we expect to play to the same rulebook as we do the United States, Canada, South Africa, Japan, Australia, and New Zealand for example. We analyze America because we expect the same high standards from them as we do of ourselves. George Bush is a dangerous man. To be honest he has more effect on our lives than Saddam Hussein, therefore when a corrupt & ignorant fool as himself is what we have to deal with, we worry, we worry big time. We are seriously afraid it is not France which is a danger but that the United States is slipping towards fascism, instead of the Jews and Communists to blame, now the new bad guys are the Muslims, & Europeans (esp. the French).

 

[Zhukov]

You needn't worry yourself about America slipping into fascism.

We have a longer and stronger tradition of political freedom than any European country. That is after all why many European immigrants came here, and not the other way around.

So you can relax, we know what we're doing. And we're going to do it whether we get help from the rest of the world or not, because we can and we must.

The difference this time is, we won't even expect any gratitude for it. We're beyond that.

 

[EuroIrish]

Soviet Hero, there are thousands of Americans in Ireland who live here because they feel they can no longer live in G.W.B.s 1984. I saw a very funny example of a sarcastic Brazilian response to U.S. demands on foreign visitors giving up personal details about themselves before flights, the Brazilians made everyone take out their passports, all nationalities (if not suspicious of course) where allowed to flights around the World without any additional hassle, all the Americans where interviewed on very personal details before they could board the planes. A bit of your own medicine can taste very bitter.

Europe has learned from its historical lessons. America appears not to have done the same.

European fascism, yes it did exist, but so too did American.

Oppression of the Native populations.
W.A.S.P. discrimination against the Irish & other Catholics when they first arrived.
Enslavement of a whole race.
The arrogant annexation of Texas and other Western Regions.
The annexation of Hawaii.
The Imperial ventures into Cuba & the Philippians (several hundred thousand natives where killed in the second.
Aggression towards the British/Canadians to your the North.
Attacks on the French navy not long after their valiant liberation of your colonies.
Your attacks against the Barbary Coast.

Note, that’s before you even enter into the 20’Th century & things get a whole lot worse after that.

Apartheid in certain parts of America in the 1960's!!!!!!!

 

[freeandfun1]

Originally posted by EuroIrish
The arrogant annexation of Texas and other Western Regions.

Hideeho little hero, you don't know shit do ya?

Texans (Texicans) fought a war of Revolution and won and then decided on their own to join the Union. Not sure where you get that Texas was "annexed".

DOH!

 

[Zhukov]

First of all, not one thing you listed is an example of 'American fascism'. And most of what you listed is dishonest spin, if not outright fabrication.

Secondly, considering most of western Europe is now gravitating towards another form of the socialism that just recently brought ruin to eastern Europe, and then collapsed under the weight of it's own ineffectiveness, I'd say you haven't learned your 'historical lessons'.

You're current attempts at appeasement are yet another example of not having learned anything from Europe's bloody history.

Isn't one description of insanity something along the lines of trying the same thing repeatedly and expecting a different result?

You'll pardon us if we try it our way for once.

 

[NightTrain]

Europe has learned from its historical lessons. America appears not to have done the same.

It appears abundantly clear that France, Spain & Germany haven't learned a damn thing from history when it comes to appeasement. Probably more accurately, they've forgotten because they haven't had to defend themselves. The USA provided for their defense for too long.

European fascism, yes it did exist, but so too did American.


The arrogant annexation of Texas and other Western Regions.
The annexation of Hawaii.

Both States voted & were admitted into the U.S. I fail to see the connection.

The Imperial ventures into Cuba & the Philippians (several hundred thousand natives where killed in the second.

lol, Imperial ventures? Explain?

Aggression towards the British/Canadians to your the North.

You must mean the War of 1812. You really don't have a clue about U.S. history, do you? How exactly is that fascism?

Attacks on the French navy not long after their valiant liberation of your colonies.

I'm not familiar with that, but if we did, then they probably deserved it.

While France did assist us in fighting the Brits during the American Revolution, it was a case (as usual) of what was convenient for France. It was mutually beneficial to ally against England.

To give them credit for 'valiant liberation of the colonies' is hardly accurate.

Your attacks against the Barbary Coast.

You must think that state-sanctioned piracy on the High Seas and enslavement of American sailors by muslims is perfectly acceptable. You damn right we responded with force.

Do yourself a favor and research your subjects before spouting off like this and making an ass of yourself.

 

[MrMarbles]

It appears abundantly clear that France, Spain & Germany haven't learned a damn thing from history when it comes to appeasement. Probably more accurately, they've forgotten because they haven't had to defend themselves. The USA provided for their defense for too long.

Do you remember, or were taught about Vietnam.

The US intervend in a civil war. 'For the good of the world, communism must be stopped', was the line spouted at the time.
Long story short.... US assasinated the democraic leader of South Vietnam, then proceed in a drawn out war which they lost. One that cost hundred of thousands of American lives, and millions of Vietnamese lives. IN the end, the 'evil' communists over ran the country. To this date it is communist. But now America does a lot of bussiness with them. Are they not evil? They killed there own people, why support them? They killed your own poeple and you support them. Meanwhile, US invades Iraq using alot of the same language as Vietnam.

What is the difference? That is the history the world is looking at when they condem the US actions in Iraq. US's argument is not credible when compared to it's own history.

 

[Avatar4321]

Attacks on the French navy not long after their valiant liberation of your colonies..

Valiently liberating our colonies? They didnt show up till the last frickin battle. And all they did there was block the British from fleeing. They assisted, yes, but until France launches a DDay invasion to liberate the US from any oppressor i think Valient liberation is a bit exagerated.