Are utopian beliefs bad?

JakeWIlls92

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Apr 6, 2014
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Back in 2014 after experiencing space sci fi like Mass Effect and Guardians of the Galaxy for the first time I quickly adapted an utopian worldview. I was just an immature idealist. I wanted a space faring secular humanity that has evolved past greed, racism, and organized religion. Part of the appeal of space sci fi was that it portrayed a future without racism and this was a time when I got angry at police brutality. In Mass Effect 2 you get to blow up a private prison. I thought private prisons were a plot to destroy black people. In 2014 I considered the police, the Republicans, criminal justice system, and even some Democrats the enemy of the utopia I wanted. Now with what is happening in China I am reconsidering my desire for a secular interstellar utopia. China wants a utopia of sorts but it is causing a genocide. What they are doing to Uyghurs is beyond sickening! I don't believe in using genocide to achieve a better future. Are utopian beliefs bad? Doesn't utopia often lead to genocide? After all the Soviets, Nazis, Mao, and Pol Pot thought they were building the perfect utopia.

After 2016 I saw how my anti police and utopian beliefs had led to even more hate and division in society. Since last year I have become more and more moderate.
 
There is no utopian society ever conceived that can please everyone ... so, the only way one can achieve utopia is to eliminate those who don't fit your ideal of utopians.
 
There is no utopian society ever conceived that can please everyone ... so, the only way one can achieve utopia is to eliminate those who don't fit your ideal of utopians.
The day Star Track becomes reality and a replicator is created that will create whatever you want right before your eyes there will never be a utopian society. You might have pods of utopian societies but sooner or later you'll have one group trying to take the other group's property.
 
A utopia requires more than a fulfillment of society's physical needs. We currently live in a society where nearly everyone the same basic possessions. For the most part, even the poorest of us has a place to live, a car, a television, a smartphone, clothing, and food. We live in a society with so much abundance, that the poorest among us suffer most from obesity.

A utopia requires not just a fulfillment of wants. Above all else, it requires a conformity of thought. In order for society to exist, harmoniously, everyone must except the the same societal goals and rules. Anyone not willing to adapt the utopian ideals, will not be able to live in the utopia.

Even in the world of 'Star Trek', society is stratified into haves and have nots. It's clear the way some races in the show hoard resources that people outside of Starfleet don't have access to replicator technology. While it is never fully explained in the the show, it is clear that Starfleet is an elitist organization which is both competitive and hard to join. Starfleet consists of a rank structure, so competition for advancement is inevitable. While the show only focuses on the officers in Starfleet, there must be lower ranks that clean the ship, fix broken parts, and generally keep things working. Everyone can't be an officer.
 
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Take some magic mushroom and look at the pretty picture and you'll all find what you're looking for...

*****CHUCKLE*****



:)
 
Since you asked.

Atheists won't like what I'm going to say, but I believe that a utopian belief is only bad when it's based on the assumption that it's possible without God. Mankind has made a total mess of this world, and the people who run this world are flat out evil. So it's just not going to happen in this age, but even if IS attempted, it will be a false utopia, one brought about by the barrel of a gun.

That said, according to the bible, in the next age, there is going to be a utopian period of time, the millennial reign of Christ, when there will be peace and harmony on earth, as things were meant to be in the very beginning.

The wolf will live with the lamb, the leopard will lie down with the goat, the calf and the lion and the yearling together; and a little child will lead them.

The cow will feed with the bear, their young will lie down together, and the lion will eat straw like the ox. The infant will play near the cobra’s den, and the young child will put its hand into the viper’s nest.

They will neither harm nor destroy on all my holy mountain, for the earth will be filled with the knowledge of the Lord as the waters cover the sea.

Isaiah 11:6-9​
 
Since you asked.

Atheists won't like what I'm going to say, but I believe that a utopian belief is only bad when it's based on the assumption that it's possible without God. Mankind has made a total mess of this world, and the people who run this world are flat out evil. So it's just not going to happen in this age, but even if IS attempted, it will be a false utopia, one brought about by the barrel of a gun.

That said, according to the bible, in the next age, there is going to be a utopian period of time, the millennial reign of Christ, when there will be peace and harmony on earth, as things were meant to be in the very beginning.

The wolf will live with the lamb, the leopard will lie down with the goat, the calf and the lion and the yearling together; and a little child will lead them.

The cow will feed with the bear, their young will lie down together, and the lion will eat straw like the ox. The infant will play near the cobra’s den, and the young child will put its hand into the viper’s nest.

They will neither harm nor destroy on all my holy mountain, for the earth will be filled with the knowledge of the Lord as the waters cover the sea.

Isaiah 11:6-9​
The Bible was written by men. I went to Catholic schools and I still attend church but yes, the Bible was written by men.
 
Since you asked.

Atheists won't like what I'm going to say, but I believe that a utopian belief is only bad when it's based on the assumption that it's possible without God. Mankind has made a total mess of this world, and the people who run this world are flat out evil. So it's just not going to happen in this age, but even if IS attempted, it will be a false utopia, one brought about by the barrel of a gun.

That said, according to the bible, in the next age, there is going to be a utopian period of time, the millennial reign of Christ, when there will be peace and harmony on earth, as things were meant to be in the very beginning.

The wolf will live with the lamb, the leopard will lie down with the goat, the calf and the lion and the yearling together; and a little child will lead them.

The cow will feed with the bear, their young will lie down together, and the lion will eat straw like the ox. The infant will play near the cobra’s den, and the young child will put its hand into the viper’s nest.

They will neither harm nor destroy on all my holy mountain, for the earth will be filled with the knowledge of the Lord as the waters cover the sea.

Isaiah 11:6-9​
The Bible was written by men. I went to Catholic schools and I still attend church but yes, the Bible was written by men.

Men wrote it down, yes, but the Christian belief is that the bible was inspired by God. There are a number of compelling reasons to believe that's true, but that's a topic for another time and thread.
 
Back in 2014 after experiencing space sci fi like Mass Effect and Guardians of the Galaxy for the first time I quickly adapted an utopian worldview. I was just an immature idealist. I wanted a space faring secular humanity that has evolved past greed, racism, and organized religion. Part of the appeal of space sci fi was that it portrayed a future without racism and this was a time when I got angry at police brutality. In Mass Effect 2 you get to blow up a private prison. I thought private prisons were a plot to destroy black people. In 2014 I considered the police, the Republicans, criminal justice system, and even some Democrats the enemy of the utopia I wanted. Now with what is happening in China I am reconsidering my desire for a secular interstellar utopia. China wants a utopia of sorts but it is causing a genocide. What they are doing to Uyghurs is beyond sickening! I don't believe in using genocide to achieve a better future. Are utopian beliefs bad? Doesn't utopia often lead to genocide? After all the Soviets, Nazis, Mao, and Pol Pot thought they were building the perfect utopia.

After 2016 I saw how my anti police and utopian beliefs had led to even more hate and division in society. Since last year I have become more and more moderate.
Jake Wills: "Are utopian beliefs bad? Doesn't utopia often lead to genocide?"
I'm so glad you were able to see the light and become a more moderate person, because the casualties of World War II were enormous. Here is a moderate, but low estimate of losses in WWII, broken down even into country by country. The reason it was higher is because two societies, China and Russia, used the cover of WWII as other countries were too busy to notice them, Lenin is alleged to have killed over 20,000,000 (with some saying 5 x that number) and Mao is said to have killed over a hundred million. These were enumerated nowhere that we know of, but we do know the Germans took fastidious notes, and WWII casualties are more verified here: World War II casualties - Wikipedia

From wikipedia WWII Casualties page: "World War II was the deadliest military conflict in history. An estimated total of 70–85 million people perished, which was about 3% of the 1940 world population (est. 2.3 billion).[1]"
Thanks for your post. It renews us all to hear that someone who was radicallized comes back down to earth with the moderation of wanting to live in a good and right way. Most Americans not involved in politics or only moderately so, have some views on the right and some views on the left. Others can't choose and become independents. Others claim one side or the other, but have occasional dalliances with right or left.

Being a moderate, you have the freedom of seeing behaviors for what they are or the ease of changing your mind as lies unfold and are shown for what they are. Best wishes in your growing political in a good way. It's not an easy lottery to be fully aware of what is and is not true, but some of us have 30 years or more of knowing politics, which helps us see lying behaviors on the part of politicians is particularly weaponized because when validated, they become trusted, but when invalidated time after time, they're only fooling themselves about Americans believing in them. Hang in there.
 
Since you asked.

Atheists won't like what I'm going to say, but I believe that a utopian belief is only bad when it's based on the assumption that it's possible without God. Mankind has made a total mess of this world, and the people who run this world are flat out evil. So it's just not going to happen in this age, but even if IS attempted, it will be a false utopia, one brought about by the barrel of a gun.

That said, according to the bible, in the next age, there is going to be a utopian period of time, the millennial reign of Christ, when there will be peace and harmony on earth, as things were meant to be in the very beginning.

The wolf will live with the lamb, the leopard will lie down with the goat, the calf and the lion and the yearling together; and a little child will lead them.

The cow will feed with the bear, their young will lie down together, and the lion will eat straw like the ox. The infant will play near the cobra’s den, and the young child will put its hand into the viper’s nest.

They will neither harm nor destroy on all my holy mountain, for the earth will be filled with the knowledge of the Lord as the waters cover the sea.

Isaiah 11:6-9​
The Bible was written by men. I went to Catholic schools and I still attend church but yes, the Bible was written by men.

Men wrote it down, yes, but the Christian belief is that the bible was inspired by God. There are a number of compelling reasons to believe that's true, but that's a topic for another time and thread.



I really like the message in your avi.
 
Since you asked.

Atheists won't like what I'm going to say, but I believe that a utopian belief is only bad when it's based on the assumption that it's possible without God. Mankind has made a total mess of this world, and the people who run this world are flat out evil. So it's just not going to happen in this age, but even if IS attempted, it will be a false utopia, one brought about by the barrel of a gun.

That said, according to the bible, in the next age, there is going to be a utopian period of time, the millennial reign of Christ, when there will be peace and harmony on earth, as things were meant to be in the very beginning.

The wolf will live with the lamb, the leopard will lie down with the goat, the calf and the lion and the yearling together; and a little child will lead them.

The cow will feed with the bear, their young will lie down together, and the lion will eat straw like the ox. The infant will play near the cobra’s den, and the young child will put its hand into the viper’s nest.

They will neither harm nor destroy on all my holy mountain, for the earth will be filled with the knowledge of the Lord as the waters cover the sea.

Isaiah 11:6-9​
The Bible was written by men. I went to Catholic schools and I still attend church but yes, the Bible was written by men.

Men wrote it down, yes, but the Christian belief is that the bible was inspired by God. There are a number of compelling reasons to believe that's true, but that's a topic for another time and thread.



I really like the message in your avi.

Thanks. As you can tell, I'm not a fan of tv, haha. Btw, I just realized, that could be a good topic for a new thread. I'd have to verify this, but I remember hearing some very telling quotes about tv, from the founder of the church of satan.
 
Since you asked.

Atheists won't like what I'm going to say, but I believe that a utopian belief is only bad when it's based on the assumption that it's possible without God. Mankind has made a total mess of this world, and the people who run this world are flat out evil. So it's just not going to happen in this age, but even if IS attempted, it will be a false utopia, one brought about by the barrel of a gun.

That said, according to the bible, in the next age, there is going to be a utopian period of time, the millennial reign of Christ, when there will be peace and harmony on earth, as things were meant to be in the very beginning.

The wolf will live with the lamb, the leopard will lie down with the goat, the calf and the lion and the yearling together; and a little child will lead them.

The cow will feed with the bear, their young will lie down together, and the lion will eat straw like the ox. The infant will play near the cobra’s den, and the young child will put its hand into the viper’s nest.

They will neither harm nor destroy on all my holy mountain, for the earth will be filled with the knowledge of the Lord as the waters cover the sea.

Isaiah 11:6-9​
The Bible was written by men. I went to Catholic schools and I still attend church but yes, the Bible was written by men.

Men wrote it down, yes, but the Christian belief is that the bible was inspired by God. There are a number of compelling reasons to believe that's true, but that's a topic for another time and thread.



I really like the message in your avi.

Thanks. As you can tell, I'm not a fan of tv, haha. Btw, I just realized, that could be a good topic for a new thread. I'd have to verify this, but I remember hearing some very telling quotes about tv, from the founder of the church of satan.

Sadly, any thread on books would obviate any input from our Leftist/Democrat/Liberals posters, government school grads.....who never read books.

I have often asked posters of that...persuasion....to name 3 or 4 of the books that have founded their geopolitical views....

....it's a joke...sad, but a joke.

None could reply.



But...you could ask 'em their favorite 24-hour all-cartoon network.....
 
There is no utopian society ever conceived that can please everyone ... so, the only way one can achieve utopia is to eliminate those who don't fit your ideal of utopians.
Okay, we take Shakespeare’s advice and first kill all the lawyers and then quickly pivot to the dimocrats.


Hmmmm......and it might work! ‘Cause if we kill ‘em all….we could claim at our trial that we didn’t have adequate representation.
 
There is no utopian society ever conceived that can please everyone ... so, the only way one can achieve utopia is to eliminate those who don't fit your ideal of utopians.
Okay, we take Shakespeare’s advice and first kill all the lawyers and then quickly pivot to the dimocrats.


Hmmmm......and it might work! ‘Cause if we kill ‘em all….we could claim at our trial that we didn’t have adequate representation.
As much as I love ya, PC, at “our” trial it was ALL your idea!
 
Beliefs can be bad but you have a right to express them. The problem comes when you whine about the right of other people to ridicule your beliefs when you lack the will or the education to defend them. .
 
There is no utopian society ever conceived that can please everyone ... so, the only way one can achieve utopia is to eliminate those who don't fit your ideal of utopians.
Okay, we take Shakespeare’s advice and first kill all the lawyers and then quickly pivot to the dimocrats.


Hmmmm......and it might work! ‘Cause if we kill ‘em all….we could claim at our trial that we didn’t have adequate representation.
As much as I love ya, PC, at “our” trial it was ALL your idea!



Under the bus, huh?
 
There is no utopian society ever conceived that can please everyone ... so, the only way one can achieve utopia is to eliminate those who don't fit your ideal of utopians.
Okay, we take Shakespeare’s advice and first kill all the lawyers and then quickly pivot to the dimocrats.


Hmmmm......and it might work! ‘Cause if we kill ‘em all….we could claim at our trial that we didn’t have adequate representation.
As much as I love ya, PC, at “our” trial it was ALL your idea!



Under the bus, huh?
Ah, such a crude euphemism for self-preservation.
 

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