Are the Palestinians a real people?

[rylah]

Never mind with your cryptic statements. They are narrow minded and not very deep. I remember when I was a student in Bar Ilan in 1982, and took a bus to the Tomb of the Patriarchs in Hebron. As I got off the bus, a smiling stranger met me and proceeded to take me all around the tombs. It was an hour before I found out he was an Arab. I wore a kippa, so he knew I was Jewish right away. And here in NY, I worked with an Arab who used to call me "Cousin." Not all Arabs are animals.

No one said that they were.

And.

There's nothing cryptic about you bowing to the state. Kapos did as well. Bolsheviks also.

Guys guys...

Instead of wasting time arguing about those whom the Torah calls 'non-people',
You could make Aliyah and vote in the next elections this spring.

Or before voting, join the ongoing discussions about Parliamentary Monarchy,
then instead of arguing about "bowing to state", You can argue who makes the King's Bracha and who answers Amen.

The Arabs... once relieved of the burden of playing the role the West projects on them, and responsibility for creating something they neither want nor know how, will have less psychological obstacles fitting into a power structure, an environment for which they've been wired and used to in the middle east most naturally.

All I'm saying we might not need another '67 to order things in their place,
just look at all the Arabs gathering around Rabbi Zamir Cohen...

Yes, I had forgotten that the Torah calls the modern so-called Palestinians a "non-people." Very prophetic. It predicted that we would be harassed by a certain "people" who are not really a people, and that's exactly what's happening today. However, I believe the Torah meant "non-people" in the nationalistic sense, in that they are not a unique people but are part of the larger Arab people. That is exactly what this thread is about. It doesn't mean that they are like animals, and not human beings. That is how the anti-Semites claim we look at Gentiles--as being less than human. Bereishis (Genesis) says that ALL ppl were created in the image of G-d.

A non people.

In denying them their identity from the most fundamental and religious level are you and others any different than those who deny Jews their identity? I dont think so. Regardless of how that identity started (coalescing around resistance to Israel) it is an identity now with it's own history and unique heritage defined by conflict and diaspora. Why is it so fundamentally impossible to accept to some that they must actively seek to erase it?

Enough with the charade,
It doesn't take a genius to understand it's contempt to basic human intelligence

You haven't been able to present a single thing that constitutes THEIR own identity,
without ripping every other culture, to the point where the only definite clear definition of this collective is nothing but their expressed - genocidal Jew hatred.

And then you have the audacity to accuse your target victim, of the crime you were prevented from committing??!

 

[Ropey]

No one said that they were.

And.

There's nothing cryptic about you bowing to the state. Kapos did as well. Bolsheviks also.

Guys guys...

Instead of wasting time arguing about those whom the Torah calls 'non-people',
You could make Aliyah and vote in the next elections this spring.

Or before voting, join the ongoing discussions about Parliamentary Monarchy,
then instead of arguing about "bowing to state", You can argue who makes the King's Bracha and who answers Amen.

The Arabs... once relieved of the burden of playing the role the West projects on them, and responsibility for creating something they neither want nor know how, will have less psychological obstacles fitting into a power structure, an environment for which they've been wired and used to in the middle east most naturally.

All I'm saying we might not need another '67 to order things in their place,
just look at all the Arabs gathering around Rabbi Zamir Cohen...

Yes, I had forgotten that the Torah calls the modern so-called Palestinians a "non-people." Very prophetic. It predicted that we would be harassed by a certain "people" who are not really a people, and that's exactly what's happening today. However, I believe the Torah meant "non-people" in the nationalistic sense, in that they are not a unique people but are part of the larger Arab people. That is exactly what this thread is about. It doesn't mean that they are like animals, and not human beings. That is how the anti-Semites claim we look at Gentiles--as being less than human. Bereishis (Genesis) says that ALL ppl were created in the image of G-d.

A non people.

In denying them their identity from the most fundamental and religious level are you and others any different than those who deny Jews their identity? I dont think so. Regardless of how that identity started (coalescing around resistance to Israel) it is an identity now with it's own history and unique heritage defined by conflict and diaspora. Why is it so fundamentally impossible to accept to some that they must actively seek to erase it?

You haven't been able to present a single thing that constitutes THEIR own identity,
without ripping every other culture, to the point where the only definite clear definition of this collective is nothing but their expressed - genocidal Jew hatred.

And then you have the audacity to accuse others of erasure??!

Enough with the charade,
It doesn't take a genius to understand it's an insult to basic human intelligence.

You just keep spouting off Hegel/Marx and then conflating it with talk about Hashem.

Your recorder is copying it all down.

 

[rylah]

Guys guys...

Instead of wasting time arguing about those whom the Torah calls 'non-people',
You could make Aliyah and vote in the next elections this spring.

Or before voting, join the ongoing discussions about Parliamentary Monarchy,
then instead of arguing about "bowing to state", You can argue who makes the King's Bracha and who answers Amen.

The Arabs... once relieved of the burden of playing the role the West projects on them, and responsibility for creating something they neither want nor know how, will have less psychological obstacles fitting into a power structure, an environment for which they've been wired and used to in the middle east most naturally.

All I'm saying we might not need another '67 to order things in their place,
just look at all the Arabs gathering around Rabbi Zamir Cohen...

Yes, I had forgotten that the Torah calls the modern so-called Palestinians a "non-people." Very prophetic. It predicted that we would be harassed by a certain "people" who are not really a people, and that's exactly what's happening today. However, I believe the Torah meant "non-people" in the nationalistic sense, in that they are not a unique people but are part of the larger Arab people. That is exactly what this thread is about. It doesn't mean that they are like animals, and not human beings. That is how the anti-Semites claim we look at Gentiles--as being less than human. Bereishis (Genesis) says that ALL ppl were created in the image of G-d.

A non people.

In denying them their identity from the most fundamental and religious level are you and others any different than those who deny Jews their identity? I dont think so. Regardless of how that identity started (coalescing around resistance to Israel) it is an identity now with it's own history and unique heritage defined by conflict and diaspora. Why is it so fundamentally impossible to accept to some that they must actively seek to erase it?

You haven't been able to present a single thing that constitutes THEIR own identity,
without ripping every other culture, to the point where the only definite clear definition of this collective is nothing but their expressed - genocidal Jew hatred.

And then you have the audacity to accuse others of erasure??!

Enough with the charade,
It doesn't take a genius to understand it's an insult to basic human intelligence.

You just keep spouting off Hegel/Marx and then conflating it with talk about Hashem.

Your recorder is copying it all down.

I have no idea where You saw Hegel/Marx in my answer to Coyote.
Frankly, my knowledge of Hegel is less than none, Marx only vaguely, and I'm sure not planning on reading the Capital.

In fact the things I talked about in our conversation, I've learned in Torah lessons.
The only construct outside of this frame is probably archetype of the collective unconscious by C.G. Jung, that it.

 

[Ropey]

You say 'collective' more times than you say' Hashem'.

 

[rylah]

You say 'collective' more times than you say' Hashem'.

"A song of Asaph. G-d is present in the congregation of E-l"

Tehilim 82

 

[Ropey]

Congregation =/= Collective

It's not even close.

 

[rylah]

Congregation =/= Collective

So how many? And WHO said that?

 

[Ropey]

Congregation =/= Collective

So ow many are that? And WHO said that?

Ow many ou want?

 

[rylah]

Congregation =/= Collective

So ow many are that? And WHO said that?

Ow many ou want?

And what does our name even mean?
What is Srara?

 

[Ropey]

Congregation =/= Collective

So ow many are that? And WHO said that?

Ow many ou want?

And what does our name even mean?

עִבְרִי

 

[rylah]

Congregation =/= Collective

So ow many are that? And WHO said that?

Ow many ou want?

And what does our name even mean?

עִבְרִי

I don't see G-d's name in there.
Neither in Ya'akov.

I dunno, maybe there's a pattern with a purpose:

Avram - singular
Avraham - collective

Ya'akov - singular
Yisrael- collective

There must be something, if Hashem changed their names in that order,
placing his name davka on the collective. As if there was some plan that proceeded further with this transformation...

Help me out.

 

[rylah]

PA claims Yehuda Glick ''stormed'' the Temple Mount

The PA news agency accuses Yehuda Glick and other "settlers" of a "provocative outbreak" on the Temple Mount compound.

PA official news agency Wafa reports that "extreme settler" (according to their language) Yehuda Glick led a new storming of al-Aqsa Mosque compound (Temple Mount), accompanied by dozens of "settlers."

According to the report, Glick, a former Likud MK, entered the al-Aqsa Mosque compound (Temple Mount) from the Mughrabi Gate and he and his companions were conducting "provocative tours" of the site and left through the Shalshelet gate.

The Palestinian Authority does not recognize any religious or historical affiliation of the Jewish people to Jerusalem, and it claims that the Temple never existed.

The religion of Islam covered all fathers and prophets, including Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and according to the concept of Islam, they were all Muslims, and the Israelites mentioned in the Torah and the Koran actually received the gospel of Islam, but rejected it.

In the Islamic faith, Jesus was not a Jew or Christian but a Muslim, and he also bore the gospel of Islam.

PA claims Yehuda Glick "stormed" the Temple Mount.

 

[Ropey]

Congregation =/= Collective

So ow many are that? And WHO said that?

Ow many ou want?

And what does our name even mean?

עִבְרִי

I don't see G-d's name in there.
Neither in Ya'akov.

I dunno, maybe there's a pattern with a purpose:

Avram - singular
Avraham - collective

Ya'akov - singular
Yisrael- collective

There must be something, if Hashem changed their names in that order,
placing his name davka on the collective. As if there was some plan that proceeded further with this transformation...

Help me out.

And what does our name even mean?

 

[rylah]

Know Your History: Even the Term “Free Palestine”
Was Co-opted From the Jews

Free, free Palestine!”

These are the words shouted out by Israel haters worldwide, more often than not an expression of their wish for the destruction of the state of Israel.

But did you know the first use of the words “Free Palestine” were for the exact opposite objective?


American League for a Free Palestine (ALFP) was created in July 1944, by Peter H Bergson (formerly Hillel Kook), for the purpose of supporting and funding his Hebrew Committee of National Liberation in Palestine. The ALFP attracted Jewish and non-Jewish members from all occupations, but especially those in politics and entertainment. The ALFP’s most notable achievement was the work of award winning playwright and director Ben Hecht, a member of the league. Hecht wrote A Flag is Born to propagandize the cause by comparing the fight for a free Palestine against the British to the American Revolution. With money raised from the production of the play, the league purchased a boat for the aliyah of Holocaust survivors from France. The group dissolved in December 1948 as the goal of the league had been achieved.

Do you think the Jews of the time would have named their movement this way had there been a distinguishable group of Arabs identifying as “palestinians”, who had run a state called “Palestine”?

Know Your History: Even the Term 'Free Palestine' Was Co-opted From the Jews

 

[deorro 1]

They speak Arabic, like in 21 other countries. They wear the keffiya and hijab, like in 21 other countries. They eat hummus and shwarma, like in 21 other countries. They celebrate Mohammed's birthday and Abraham's near sacrifice of his son, like in 21 other countries.


In Israel, they speak Hebrew. It's the only country with this national language. In Israel, they wear the kippa and kova temble, like in no other country. In Israel, they eat gefilte fish, kugel, kishke, and cholent, like in no other country. In Israel, the national holidays are Yom Kippur, Passover and Hanukkah. These are no other country's national holidays.

Why does Tinmore want to destroy the only Jewish state in the world to set up a 22nd jihadist state? Is this what the world really needs?

Hosea 4:6 "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children."

It's frighentening to not have knowledge that a person can actually literally 'die' if confined within 'no knowledge'.


If you can think about it this way it might make clearer sense.


If sense is like cents, a person can 'die' literally without being around 'sense'.

 

[rylah]

PA Historian Admits No ‘Palestinian People’ in 1917

From the indispensable Palestinian Media Watch:

To mark the 100th anniversary of the Balfour Declaration, Mahmoud Abbas, the President of the Palestinian Authority published an op-ed in the British Guardian newspaper. After castigating Lord Balfour for promising “a land that was not his to promise” he went on to describe the Palestinian people as “a proud nation with a rich heritage of ancient civilisations, and the cradle of the Abrahamic faiths.”

Contradicting Abbas’ historical revision, just a day before, PA official TV broadcast an interview with the historian Abd Al-Ghani Salameh, who explained that in 1917 there was no Palestinian people.

During the broadcast, the host of the program asked:

“There always was a historical struggle over Palestine, and many wanted to rule it. How did the aspirations to rule affect the Palestinian existence, the Palestinians’ options, and the Palestinians’ possibilities of development?”

“Before the Balfour Promise (i.e., Declaration) when the Ottoman rule ended, Palestine’s political borders as we know them today did not exist, and there was nothing called a Palestinian people with a political identity as we know today, since Palestine’s lines of administrative division stretched from east to west and included Jordan and southern Lebanon, and like all peoples of the region [the Palestinians] were liberated from the Turkish rule and immediately moved to colonial rule, without forming a Palestinian people’s political identity. However, Palestine as a geographic area and the people dwelling within it enjoyed prosperity.”



PA Historian Admits No 'Palestinian People' in 1917

 

[ForeverYoung436]

PA Historian Admits No ‘Palestinian People’ in 1917

From the indispensable Palestinian Media Watch:

To mark the 100th anniversary of the Balfour Declaration, Mahmoud Abbas, the President of the Palestinian Authority published an op-ed in the British Guardian newspaper. After castigating Lord Balfour for promising “a land that was not his to promise” he went on to describe the Palestinian people as “a proud nation with a rich heritage of ancient civilisations, and the cradle of the Abrahamic faiths.”

Contradicting Abbas’ historical revision, just a day before, PA official TV broadcast an interview with the historian Abd Al-Ghani Salameh, who explained that in 1917 there was no Palestinian people.

During the broadcast, the host of the program asked:

“There always was a historical struggle over Palestine, and many wanted to rule it. How did the aspirations to rule affect the Palestinian existence, the Palestinians’ options, and the Palestinians’ possibilities of development?”

“Before the Balfour Promise (i.e., Declaration) when the Ottoman rule ended, Palestine’s political borders as we know them today did not exist, and there was nothing called a Palestinian people with a political identity as we know today, since Palestine’s lines of administrative division stretched from east to west and included Jordan and southern Lebanon, and like all peoples of the region [the Palestinians] were liberated from the Turkish rule and immediately moved to colonial rule, without forming a Palestinian people’s political identity. However, Palestine as a geographic area and the people dwelling within it enjoyed prosperity.”



PA Historian Admits No 'Palestinian People' in 1917

Coyote and Tinmore, do you hear this?

 

[P F Tinmore]

PA Historian Admits No ‘Palestinian People’ in 1917

From the indispensable Palestinian Media Watch:

To mark the 100th anniversary of the Balfour Declaration, Mahmoud Abbas, the President of the Palestinian Authority published an op-ed in the British Guardian newspaper. After castigating Lord Balfour for promising “a land that was not his to promise” he went on to describe the Palestinian people as “a proud nation with a rich heritage of ancient civilisations, and the cradle of the Abrahamic faiths.”

Contradicting Abbas’ historical revision, just a day before, PA official TV broadcast an interview with the historian Abd Al-Ghani Salameh, who explained that in 1917 there was no Palestinian people.

During the broadcast, the host of the program asked:

“There always was a historical struggle over Palestine, and many wanted to rule it. How did the aspirations to rule affect the Palestinian existence, the Palestinians’ options, and the Palestinians’ possibilities of development?”

“Before the Balfour Promise (i.e., Declaration) when the Ottoman rule ended, Palestine’s political borders as we know them today did not exist, and there was nothing called a Palestinian people with a political identity as we know today, since Palestine’s lines of administrative division stretched from east to west and included Jordan and southern Lebanon, and like all peoples of the region [the Palestinians] were liberated from the Turkish rule and immediately moved to colonial rule, without forming a Palestinian people’s political identity. However, Palestine as a geographic area and the people dwelling within it enjoyed prosperity.”



PA Historian Admits No 'Palestinian People' in 1917

Coyote and Tinmore, do you hear this?

No argument here. There was no Palestine until 1924.

The people, though, were the natives of the land since they had lived there for hundreds even thousands of years.

 

[DGS49]

Imagine if you will, a movement in the State of Utah to form an LDS "State" (that is to say, COUNTRY). They secede from the United States, declare themselves to be the independent country of Smitheria, put up hard borders, form their own army, national government, print currency, etc. The United Nations agrees with their right to secede and set up their own country, and formally declares their support. The surrounding states declare war on Smitheria, which war ends up in a stalemate with the borders holding.

But the non-Mormons in Utah object to all this and still want to be considered "Americans," so they begin violent protests to destroy the LDS state of "Smitheria" - even denying its right to exist. They build their own schools and teach the kids that Mormons are...bad, and that Smitherea must be erased from the face of the earth.

But those non-Mormons are not a recognizable "nation," or people, ethnicity, or anything else. They are just the people who happened to be living in Utah when the new nation was formed, and they got caught up in it because of where they lived.

Just like the "Palestinians." They are generic arabs who happened to be living in Israel when that nation was formed, but don't want to be a part of it. They have no unique history, ethnicity, religion, or anything else other than geographical kinship.

I think my analogy is apropos.

 

[rylah]

Imagine if you will, a movement in the State of Utah to form an LDS "State" (that is to say, COUNTRY). They secede from the United States, declare themselves to be the independent country of Smitheria, put up hard borders, form their own army, national government, print currency, etc. The United Nations agrees with their right to secede and set up their own country, and formally declares their support. The surrounding states declare war on Smitheria, which war ends up in a stalemate with the borders holding.

But the non-Mormons in Utah object to all this and still want to be considered "Americans," so they begin violent protests to destroy the LDS state of "Smitheria" - even denying its right to exist. They build their own schools and teach the kids that Mormons are...bad, and that Smitherea must be erased from the face of the earth.

But those non-Mormons are not a recognizable "nation," or people, ethnicity, or anything else. They are just the people who happened to be living in Utah when the new nation was formed, and they got caught up in it because of where they lived.

Just like the "Palestinians." They are generic arabs who happened to be living in Israel when that nation was formed, but don't want to be a part of it. They have no unique history, ethnicity, religion, or anything else other than geographical kinship.

I think my analogy is apropos.

That comparison would work if Smitheria was an indigenous nation with rich history nd unique culture constantly under attack in American, and rather than merely secede re-constitute their independence.

But basically yes, Palestinians to Israel are like Americans to Milwaukee,
only with much less, if any, to offer humanity.