Are tesla shares now underpricced ?

[Tommy Tainant]

Elon Musk sells new $3.6bn tranche of Tesla shares

Latest selloff takes total sale this year to $23bn and follows loss of world’s richest man title

www.theguardian.com

Does the fall in value represent a good buying opportunitty ?

I normally steer clear of companies where the management is selling stock.But the reasons for thee musk sell off are not related to tesla.

Having said that the musk factor is a shadow over the companies prospects.I would expect the CEO to actually run the company rather than piss about on twitter all day.

So, buy or ignore ?

 

[Likkmee]

Ignore. The market will be floodes with electric nonsense soon. Real soon.
They do, on the other hand, need to be shipped.

 

[Baron Von Murderpaws]

The "professionals" say "Buy the dips"...........but thats just bullshit.
Unless you are EXTREMELY suave about whats current and happening behind the scenes of any stock trade of any kind, you have a 95% chance of losing it, or it taking YEARS to mature into anything worthwhile.

I invested in a start up EV company last year while they were still offering cheap rates. Now they went public and it's on the stock market.
They are working fast and hard to get to the production stage, and it will probably be 2025 before anything hits the market.........but I earmarked that money a long time ago for an investment opportunity at the ground level........and thats where it's staying.

I did years of research as well, before I ever decided on a company to invest in.

If you want to invest in anything, you need to talk to some investment professionals, people who've invested, and how long it takes and what can happen to your investment before you see any return. Don't go in blind, if you do, you might as well set all that money on fire and watch it burn.

If you are on social media, talk to Musk himself. Ask him the tough questions about investing in his company............any of them. He's a pretty honest CEO from what I've seen and he does like to talk to his customers and intersted parties in his companies. He can probably give you the name of one of his people to talk to for more indepth information if you so choose.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

The "professionals" say "Buy the dips"...........but thats just bullshit.
Unless you are EXTREMELY suave about whats current and happening behind the scenes of any stock trade of any kind, you have a 95% chance of losing it, or it taking YEARS to mature into anything worthwhile.

I invested in a start up EV company last year while they were still offering cheap rates. Now they went public and it's on the stock market.
They are working fast and hard to get to the production stage, and it will probably be 2025 before anything hits the market.........but I earmarked that money a long time ago for an investment opportunity at the ground level........and thats where it's staying.

I did years of research as well, before I ever decided on a company to invest in.

If you want to invest in anything, you need to talk to some investment professionals, people who've invested, and how long it takes and what can happen to your investment before you see any return. Don't go in blind, if you do, you might as well set all that money on fire and watch it burn.

If you are on social media, talk to Musk himself. Ask him the tough questions about investing in his company............any of them. He's a pretty honest CEO from what I've seen and he does like to talk to his customers and intersted parties in his companies. He can probably give you the name of one of his people to talk to for more indepth information if you so choose.

Sound advice. But I hardly think Musk is going to talk down the prospects. Why would he ?

 

[Baron Von Murderpaws]

Sound advice. But I hardly think Musk is going to talk down the prospects. Why would he ?

Thats why you need to ask him your toughest and most indepth questions. See what he says.
It's better to talk to the head honcho if you have the chance. Sure he's not going to say anything bad, but I'm sure he's not going to outright lie to a prospect!!

If you don't ask the right people the right questions, you will never find out what you need to know!

And always remember, when talking to corporate people...........................it's not so much what they DO say, it's what they DON'T say that really counts!!!

And after all, it's your money........you don't want to fuck around with it, right?

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Ignore. The market will be floodes with electric nonsense soon. Real soon.
They do, on the other hand, need to be shipped.
View attachment 743855

I think you are probably correct. The EV market is getting crowded and the cost of electridity is a short term obstacle to growth.

 

[Baron Von Murderpaws]

I think you are probably correct. The EV market is getting crowded and the cost of electridity is a short term obstacle to growth.

Instead of investing in EV's themselves, you might look into EV power stations and accessories to that effect for EV's themselves.
THAT market is still in development, and you could easily find many ground level opportunities for investments.

Something else to investigate.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Elon Musk sells new $3.6bn tranche of Tesla shares

Latest selloff takes total sale this year to $23bn and follows loss of world’s richest man title

www.theguardian.com

Does the fall in value represent a good buying opportunitty ?

I normally steer clear of companies where the management is selling stock.But the reasons for thee musk sell off are not related to tesla.

Having said that the musk factor is a shadow over the companies prospects.I would expect the CEO to actually run the company rather than piss about on twitter all day.

So, buy or ignore ?

Even if it is under priced it is still to high for a normal person to make much money off of.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

The "professionals" say "Buy the dips"...........but thats just bullshit.
Unless you are EXTREMELY suave about whats current and happening behind the scenes of any stock trade of any kind, you have a 95% chance of losing it, or it taking YEARS to mature into anything worthwhile.

It is not BS. But it does take some work and effort. Also, the chances of losing it are more like 5% than 95%. It is hard to lose money in the stock market over the long term.

Take MRO for example. In 2020 due to COVID it dropped to its lowest point in almost 20 years. It was either going to go bankrupt or bounce back once COVID was dealt with. It is an old and established company so it was a good bet it would come back. And it did.

 

[SavannahMann]

Elon Musk sells new $3.6bn tranche of Tesla shares

Latest selloff takes total sale this year to $23bn and follows loss of world’s richest man title

www.theguardian.com

Does the fall in value represent a good buying opportunitty ?

I normally steer clear of companies where the management is selling stock.But the reasons for thee musk sell off are not related to tesla.

Having said that the musk factor is a shadow over the companies prospects.I would expect the CEO to actually run the company rather than piss about on twitter all day.

So, buy or ignore ?

I wouldn’t buy.

The falling stock has a lot to do with Musk being distracted by Twitter. It has a lot to do with other factors as well.

Other car companies are now producing EV options. So competition is increasing. So much so that Tesla has cut their prices to stay in the ball game. The economic situation means that fewer people are going to want to lay out the cash for one of his cars. They are going to avoid big ticket items they don’t need.

Finally we get to Twitter. Musk pushing RW narratives and ideals isn’t going to help him with his customer base which is left leaning celebrates and those sort of people. If they do get into the market for an EV they will look elsewhere for a luxury model. And there is no shortage.

Musk bought a White Elephant when he got Twitter. It was stupid and can not make money. In the public eye he has gone from the Wonderkid with grand ideals of technological future to another CT moron who will stand on the deck of a sinking ship swearing that the ship will float.

 

[krichton]

When Musk starts spreading Qanon conspiracy theories what will Tesla stock look like then? Crazy usually gets worse not better and public perception is everything. Musk has sold off Tesla shares three times now to pay off a sinking ship and has broken his promise not to sell off any more shares twice.

 

[DudleySmith]

It's a product of too much money sitting at the top with nowhere to invest it; most stocks are selling at 4-5 x their real values. It can't last, and neither can these outrageous real estate prices.

 

[DudleySmith]

I wouldn’t buy.

The falling stock has a lot to do with Musk being distracted by Twitter. It has a lot to do with other factors as well.

Other car companies are now producing EV options. So competition is increasing. So much so that Tesla has cut their prices to stay in the ball game. The economic situation means that fewer people are going to want to lay out the cash for one of his cars. They are going to avoid big ticket items they don’t need.

Finally we get to Twitter. Musk pushing RW narratives and ideals isn’t going to help him with his customer base which is left leaning celebrates and those sort of people. If they do get into the market for an EV they will look elsewhere for a luxury model. And there is no shortage.

Musk bought a White Elephant when he got Twitter. It was stupid and can not make money. In the public eye he has gone from the Wonderkid with grand ideals of technological future to another CT moron who will stand on the deck of a sinking ship swearing that the ship will float.

More like a glutted market at the price levels his EV sell for. There was never a large market base at those prices, and of course the false demand for litium has driven the prices of the batteries through the roof, so prices are never going to come down. It's just another govt. subsidized bubble that will pop, is all. Musk has little to do with it.

 

[SavannahMann]

More like a glutted market at the price levels his EV sell for. There was never a large market base at those prices, and of course the false demand for litium has driven the prices of the batteries through the roof, so prices are never going to come down. It's just another govt. subsidized bubble that will pop, is all. Musk has little to do with it.

A year ago Tesla was running a two to nine month backlog of cars. In other words. If you ordered one today, it would show up about in June if you were lucky. It could be September.

Today. That has been cut in half. Half. Now it is still a wait, but not nearly what it was a mere year ago. Musk hasn’t increased production. He hasn’t opened up a new line.

So demand is falling off. In the meantime every automaker is offering an EV now. Kia has an EV. Kia. Most of these are designed as City Cars. Cars for running around town. And for that they do a great job.

And sales are increasing.

Here’s how US electric vehicle sales by maker and EV model through Q3 2022 compare

2022 has been the biggest year for electric vehicles in the United States on record as automakers go head to...

electrek.co

So why are they falling at Tesla while they are increasing elsewhere? Partly. It is service. If I buy a Toyota EV I can take it to the dealer to get it fixed. I can’t do that with a Tesla. Partly it is financing. Finally it is accessibility. I can walk into a Ford Dealer and check out an EV. I can sit in it. Test drive it. I will have a decent idea if I’ll like it before I sign on the line.

All of this is not available with Tesla. It is check it out on the net and trust us that you’ll like it. If you have a problem you have to ship it back to the factory for repair. And suddenly Tesla doesn’t look like a smart choice compared to an Audi or Mercedes if you want a luxury model.

At the same time other companies are looking to build EV’s. A company called Canoo is starting out different. A platform, or Chassis if you prefer, with different body styles to suit the customer. One platform. A dozen different options. And they correctly assumed that the EV doesn’t need to look like a traditional engine in the front car to work.

How will it sell? I don’t know. I’m curious to see how they do.

Elon eschewed the traditional business model. Dealers for the cars. Repair shops for faults and repairs. He said it would not be needed. But people expect that. They want to be able to get their cars repaired. He assumed the charging station network would be all he needed. I think he was wrong. Time will tell.

For my money, which is the point of this thread, I wouldn’t invest in Tesla. I wouldn’t buy stock in the company. I wouldn’t risk my cash on that particular horse. I feel that Musk is going to sink himself, and take three companies with him. Twitter, Space-X, and Tesla.

If I was going to bet on any car company it would be either Toyota or Volkswagen. Both companies are large and profitable. They own other brands and can weather any storm. Volkswagen is especially well diversified. They own luxury cars in Audi, sports cars in Porsche, super and hyper cars in Lamborghini. They own strictly European brands. All are selling well, and turning good profits.

You may not see the return you will with Tesla, but you will have a much safer investment. Especially if the current trends continue.

 

[DudleySmith]

A year ago Tesla was running a two to nine month backlog of cars. In other words. If you ordered one today, it would show up about in June if you were lucky. It could be September.

With a population of 340 million legal population, and some 3 to 5% who can afford one, you're looking at a potential market of high end autos of around 10,000,000 plus at the low end. Studies show that the majority of Tesla owners also own another regular vehicle, many own three or more other vehicles, all IC; the Tesla is just a fashion accessory for rich people. Working people are never going to be able to afford an EV. That's just a marketing lie to sell the public on massive corporate welfare scams. The govt. kicks back thousands to buyers for buying one, and CAlifornia also kicks back rebates to the rich people who buy Teslas. It's not a real market, so yeah, investing in it now would be stupid. Right now there are 600,000 EVs on the road in the U.S. Hybrids don't count as far I'm concerend.

 

[airplanemechanic]

Electric vehicles are a fad. We don't have the electrical grid capacity to handle millions and millions of cars needing to be charged all the time. Not to mention their range sucks. Oh yea, in 10 years when the battery needs to be replaced, the car isn't worth the battery so the entire car is scrapped.

Electric cars are junk.

 

[SavannahMann]

With a population of 340 million legal population, and some 3 to 5% who can afford one, you're looking at a potential market of high end autos of around 10,000,000 plus at the low end. Studies show that the majority of Tesla owners also own another regular vehicle, many own three or more other vehicles, all IC; the Tesla is just a fashion accessory for rich people. Working people are never going to be able to afford an EV. That's just a marketing lie to sell the public on massive corporate welfare scams. The govt. kicks back thousands to buyers for buying one, and CAlifornia also kicks back rebates to the rich people who buy Teslas. It's not a real market, so yeah, investing in it now would be stupid. Right now there are 600,000 EVs on the road in the U.S. Hybrids don't count as far I'm concerend.

I disagree. And I’m not alone. Hyundai just started construction on a plant to build up to half a million EV’s a year in Georgia. In fact I drive by it regularly. They are spending $5.5 Billion to build this plant. Nobody is going to invest that much money on a fad or accessory.

https://www.usnews.com/news/business/articles/2022-10-25/hyundai-breaks-ground-on-5-5b-electric-car-plant-in-georgia

The Hyundai Kona starts at $33k. So we aren’t talking about a choice between a second home at Vale and a car. Easily affordable by middle class. And able to run around town without any problems. Which is what most people do in their cars.

The bigger car starts at $41k. And I spent that much ten years ago on a Toyota Van.

There is a market for them. The company Canoo I mentioned is building a run of several hundred Vans for delivery drivers. Companies like Fed-Ex.

The arguments you are making were made when Tesla started. And the predictions were that it would fail in five years. Not so far. But failure is always an option. Ask Saturn Automotive.

Because you don’t see a use, you assume nobody does. But other people do see a use. And they see the way to integrate these vehicles into their lives.

 

[DudleySmith]

Electric vehicles are a fad. We don't have the electrical grid capacity to handle millions and millions of cars needing to be charged all the time. Not to mention their range sucks. Oh yea, in 10 years when the battery needs to be replaced, the car isn't worth the battery so the entire car is scrapped.

Electric cars are junk.

You can make anything 'affordable' with large enough subsidies and rebates, at least for the first couple of million, then they begin to dwarf the cash left for real govt. functions and the bubble pops. The price of lithium is up 10x and keeps climbing, for one. The 'middle class' is shrinking; people have to take out 20 and 30 year mortgages just for cheap houses and 7 year car loans are equally absurd. Time to face reality, folks.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

I wonder if a larger carmaker might step in and buy them out. I dont know the sums involved but that may be cheaper than developing a car from scratch.

 

[SavannahMann]

I wonder if a larger carmaker might step in and buy them out. I dont know the sums involved but that may be cheaper than developing a car from scratch.

That won’t happen. First the car makers already have their own working. Seriously. Look at pretty much any car maker and you’ll see Electric Behicle Options.

Second. The Tesla cars were not designed for assembly. I don’t know if that is the case today, but it was a few years ago.

An expert dismantled a Tesla Model 3. He found poor design and manufacturing are squandering profits

The manufacturing analysts who spent 6,600 hours inside a warehouse north of Detroit picking apart a Model 3 have good news and bad news for Tesla Inc.

www.latimes.com

So the only thing that another car maker would get is a poorly designed car for their purposes, and the computer code they can already reverse engineer or just outright develop on their own.

Not much for all that money. Any CEO who approved the deal would face a riot with the stockholders at the next meeting.