Are people basically good?

[PixieStix]

We have the chioce to be either, but we are not inherently good or bad.

Would you say that the Holocaust was bad or good or are you arguing that Hitler had his good points?

Hitler chose to be evil. Why did you bring him into it? What are you trying to say?

Hitler is used because he is seen as universally evil. Really no other figure compares.

However, Jesus is seen as universally good, yet he said not to call himself good which I find thoroughly fascinating.

That is why I brought these two up in conversation.

As for Hitler, as I pointed out, he thought that he was doing "good", did he not?

The day that Adam and Eve recognized that they were naked and covered themselves is akin to a child getting caught with his or her hand in the cookie jar and lying about it.. Innocence lost. And so the not so good side shows up.

So NO, people are not basically good. People are generally bad. If people were basically good why is there so damned much suffering in the world, so many people being murdered, so many people harming children???. And lets not place the blame on God, it is people that is the source of all the suffering around the world.

Try seeing the whole picture. You have to look at the good and the bad. Surely you don’t believe it is all bad, right?

We are all in need of a Savior. Yes we are all bad, we have to work at being good. We have to teach our kids to be good. I have never had to teach my kid to be bad. That comes naturally

What does Genesis say God said after every step of Creation?

And he saw that it was good.

Evil is not extant. It only exists as the absence of good.

He saw that what he created was good. Not what Adam and Eve DID was good. Evil does not exists by itself. I would say that evil exists out of the absence of God, and the existence of greed, lust gluttony, pride etc..

 

[ding]

Would you say that the Holocaust was bad or good or are you arguing that Hitler had his good points?

Hitler chose to be evil. Why did you bring him into it? What are you trying to say?

Hitler is used because he is seen as universally evil. Really no other figure compares.

However, Jesus is seen as universally good, yet he said not to call himself good which I find thoroughly fascinating.

That is why I brought these two up in conversation.

As for Hitler, as I pointed out, he thought that he was doing "good", did he not?

The day that Adam and Eve recognized that they were naked and covered themselves is akin to a child getting caught with his or her hand in the cookie jar and lying about it.. Innocence lost. And so the not so good side shows up.

So NO, people are not basically good. People are generally bad. If people were basically good why is there so damned much suffering in the world, so many people being murdered, so many people harming children???. And lets not place the blame on God, it is people that is the source of all the suffering around the world.

Try seeing the whole picture. You have to look at the good and the bad. Surely you don’t believe it is all bad, right?

We are all in need of a Savior. Yes we are all bad, we have to work at being good. We have to teach our kids to be good. I have never had to teach my kid to be bad. That comes naturally

What does Genesis say God said after every step of Creation?

And he saw that it was good.

Evil is not extant. It only exists as the absence of good.

He saw that what he created was good. Not what Adam and Eve DID was good. Evil does not exists by itself. I would say that evil exists out of the absence of God, and the existence of greed, lust gluttony, pride etc..

Yes, they were good. Their prideful and vain behavior was bad. Which brings me back to my initial response to you, you have to weigh all the behaviors. I believe the good far outweighs the bad.

And since he uses it all for the good of those who love him the bad serves a purpose.

 

[Taz]

So explain it to me.

I have. Many times.

It's ok, I understand.

If that were true you wouldn’t keep asking the same questions over and over.

Fuck are you dense, I mean I understand why you won’t answer, because you have nothing.

But I have answered you. Dozens of times. You keep repeating the same questions.

And you are calling me dense?

If you had something you'd be more than happy to throw it in my face. Doucher.

 

[ding]

I have. Many times.

It's ok, I understand.

If that were true you wouldn’t keep asking the same questions over and over.

Fuck are you dense, I mean I understand why you won’t answer, because you have nothing.

But I have answered you. Dozens of times. You keep repeating the same questions.

And you are calling me dense?

If you had something you'd be more than happy to throw it in my face. Doucher.

I have everything and I have been more than happy to share it with you. But after dozens of times there is a point when it becomes illogical to continue doing so.

 

[OldLady]

it is the logical conclusion.
It is the logical conclusion if the survival of the human race is what you're aiming for, but who said our survival is the desired outcome for any but us?

I didn't say anything about the survival of the human race.

The logical conclusion is the continued evolution of consciousness until it makes the next evolutionary leap.

You are familiar with the stages of the evolution of of time and space, right?

No. I did not know time and space evolved. Or is that a typo?

I am also not familiar with consciousness evolving. What will it leap to?

Nor are you really interested in finding out.

Let's not waste each others time, OK?

That's so not true. I have never heard of those things before and I am not mocking you. Yes, we disagree on that fundamental good thing, but that doesn't mean I'm not curious.
But if you don't want to bother explaining it, that's fine with me too.

Ok, do you believe that evolution is when something moves from a less advanced state to a more advanced state?

It can. I can also just change. But okay, let's say yes.

 

[Taz]

It's ok, I understand.

If that were true you wouldn’t keep asking the same questions over and over.

Fuck are you dense, I mean I understand why you won’t answer, because you have nothing.

But I have answered you. Dozens of times. You keep repeating the same questions.

And you are calling me dense?

If you had something you'd be more than happy to throw it in my face. Doucher.

I have everything and I have been more than happy to share it with you. But after dozens of times there is a point when it becomes illogical to continue doing so.

And every time you've had nothing. Care to try again? But I'll understand if you avoid the whole thing. You like to say things and then run from them.

 

[ding]

If that were true you wouldn’t keep asking the same questions over and over.

Fuck are you dense, I mean I understand why you won’t answer, because you have nothing.

But I have answered you. Dozens of times. You keep repeating the same questions.

And you are calling me dense?

If you had something you'd be more than happy to throw it in my face. Doucher.

I have everything and I have been more than happy to share it with you. But after dozens of times there is a point when it becomes illogical to continue doing so.

And every time you've had nothing. Care to try again? But I'll understand if you avoid the whole thing. You like to say things and then run from them.

Looks to me like I am controlling you again.

 

[Taz]

Fuck are you dense, I mean I understand why you won’t answer, because you have nothing.

But I have answered you. Dozens of times. You keep repeating the same questions.

And you are calling me dense?

If you had something you'd be more than happy to throw it in my face. Doucher.

I have everything and I have been more than happy to share it with you. But after dozens of times there is a point when it becomes illogical to continue doing so.

And every time you've had nothing. Care to try again? But I'll understand if you avoid the whole thing. You like to say things and then run from them.

Looks to me like I am controlling you again.

I'm trying to get you to explain something you said and this is where you turn the conversation. Proof you have nothing.

 

[irosie91]

But I have answered you. Dozens of times. You keep repeating the same questions.

And you are calling me dense?

If you had something you'd be more than happy to throw it in my face. Doucher.

I have everything and I have been more than happy to share it with you. But after dozens of times there is a point when it becomes illogical to continue doing so.

And every time you've had nothing. Care to try again? But I'll understand if you avoid the whole thing. You like to say things and then run from them.

Looks to me like I am controlling you again.

I'm trying to get you to explain something you said and this is where you turn the conversation. Proof you have nothing.

there is some good in every dingbat........there is no
such thing as a completely BAD dingbat

 

[ding]

I didn't say anything about the survival of the human race.

The logical conclusion is the continued evolution of consciousness until it makes the next evolutionary leap.

You are familiar with the stages of the evolution of of time and space, right?

No. I did not know time and space evolved. Or is that a typo?

I am also not familiar with consciousness evolving. What will it leap to?

Nor are you really interested in finding out.

Let's not waste each others time, OK?

That's so not true. I have never heard of those things before and I am not mocking you. Yes, we disagree on that fundamental good thing, but that doesn't mean I'm not curious.
But if you don't want to bother explaining it, that's fine with me too.

Ok, do you believe that evolution is when something moves from a less advanced state to a more advanced state?

It can. I can also just change. But okay, let's say yes.

Thanks. Just so you know evolution extends to more than just biological evolution. In fact, biological evolution is just a small part of evolution. in its simplest form evolution means to change, but it does imply change from less advanced state to a more advanced state. I say this because we can use the term devolve to mean a change from a more advanced state to a less advanced state.

So if we look at the history of space and time, we see that existence has gotten more complex (or advanced) as time has gone by. And at each step along it's journey each phase made a leap into the next phase when matter reached the appropriate point to do so.

For instance....

~14 billion years ago all matter and energy existed in the tiny space of 1 billionth of 1 trillionth the space of a single atom and then began to expand and cool. Since that time matter and energy has merely changed form. It is a scientific fact that the matter and energy that make up the atoms in your body were present for the beginning of space and time.

At this time all matter existed as sub atomic particles and then began to expand and cool and very quickly formed hydrogen and helium. This is called the cosmic evolution phase.

The hydrogen and helium then created structures such as stars and galaxies. This is called the stellar evolution phase.

As stars supernova the blast furnace of the supernova "created" elements hydrogen and helium and chemical compounds. This is called the chemical evolution phase.

At some point matter made the leap to life and evolved from single cell organism into plants and animals. This is called the biological evolution phase.

Eventually life evolved until beings became self aware.

Given that the universe is a complex adaptive system and that since the beginning of space and time matter has comlexified it only makes sense that consciousness will evolve just like every phase before it.

 

[ding]

But I have answered you. Dozens of times. You keep repeating the same questions.

And you are calling me dense?

If you had something you'd be more than happy to throw it in my face. Doucher.

I have everything and I have been more than happy to share it with you. But after dozens of times there is a point when it becomes illogical to continue doing so.

And every time you've had nothing. Care to try again? But I'll understand if you avoid the whole thing. You like to say things and then run from them.

Looks to me like I am controlling you again.

I'm trying to get you to explain something you said and this is where you turn the conversation. Proof you have nothing.

No. You are trying to troll me, but I always beat you to the punch and leave you wanting.

 

[Michelle420]

To answer this question, we should first define what "good" means to each of us, and then answer.

What say you?

I think people are basically good. I think in terms of goodhearted, loving, compassionate and wanting to help others in need.

 

[Taz]

If you had something you'd be more than happy to throw it in my face. Doucher.

I have everything and I have been more than happy to share it with you. But after dozens of times there is a point when it becomes illogical to continue doing so.

And every time you've had nothing. Care to try again? But I'll understand if you avoid the whole thing. You like to say things and then run from them.

Looks to me like I am controlling you again.

I'm trying to get you to explain something you said and this is where you turn the conversation. Proof you have nothing.

No. You are trying to troll me, but I always beat you to the punch and leave you wanting.

 

[Pogo]

Here is how Wiki defines what is good.
.

In its most general context, the concept of good denotes that conduct which is to be or should be preferred when posed with a choice between a set of possible actions. Good is generally considered to be the opposite of evil. The concept is of interest in the study of morality, ethics, religion and philosophy, and the specific meaning and etiology of the term and its associated translations among ancient and contemporary languages has varied substantially in its inflected meaning depending on circumstances of place, history, religious context and philosophical context.

So here wiki seems to view "good" as the perceived desired choice, thereby making good relative. Problem is, Hitler thought he was doing the world a service by destroying the evil Jews.

I can't buy this line of thought. "What Hitler (or anybody) thought" he was doing is off the point, nor can we speak for what he "thought" anyway.

When I was a real tiny child one of my children's books claimed -- and this could have been and probably was entirely fabricated but it doesn't matter --- that in Indian spirituality when one dies the question put before the dead at the metaphorical pearly gates would be: "how many people on earth were made happier because you were born?"

I loved the way that was put. It resonated and made perfect sense and I've held onto the idea ever since. I doubt Hitler's victims would have given him much to put in that particular bank, but clearly deducing from his actions Hitler must NOT have thought "people are basically good". And he demonstrated where that POV leads.

Then wiki goes on to divulge the various cultural beliefs of "good" and "evil" that varied throughout history. Why so many views on what is good?. Saying that good is the opposite of evil is just as meaningless since evil would probably be described as the opposite of good.

Then we have the universal embodiment of good in Jesus Christ. All religions view him as "good", as do atheists who admit he existed, yet he took offense to being called good.

Mark 10:17 “As Jesus started on his way, a man ran up to him and fell on his knees before him. ‘Good teacher,’ he asked, ‘what must I do to inherit eternal life?’ ‘Why do you call me good?’ Jesus answered. ‘No one is good – except God alone. You know the commandments: Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony, do not defraud, honor your father and mother.’ ‘Teacher,’ he declared, ‘all these I have kept since I was a boy.’ Jesus looked at him and loved him. ‘One thing you lack,’ he said. ‘Go, sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.’ At this, the man’s face fell. He went away sad, because he had great wealth.”

How does everyone see this conundrum? What was Jesus talking about here?

All these side trips to "God" or in this case "Jesus" strike me as wholly unnecessary and irrelevant. It's all about karma. You want good things in, send good things out. No need to make it any more complex than that.