Are Libertarians Closet Anarchists?

[Madeline]

We've argued over the house left to burn because the homeowner failed to pay an optional fee for fire protection, and many "Libertarians'" or conservatives have argued vehemently against using the taxing power of government to assure fire protection for every structure.

Fine, fine fine....but it left me wondering, what do Libertarians see as essential government services?

I'm sure there's no one universally-accepted Libertarian hymnal, but I have read so often on USMB that "education is never mentioned in the constitution" and "the general welfare clause does not support Obamacare", etc. I am fairly certain most Libertarians are opposed to any social program whatsoever. Am I correct in this?

What about national defense? Immigration and border protection?

How about currency, banking regulation etc.? Any role for government in this vein considered to be essential by Libertarians?

What about criminal law and justice? Would a Libertarian support anti-drug or anti-abortion laws? Anti-suicide laws? Anti-murder laws?

We could just close all government offices and declare the US is now a ginormous commune. Does that appeal to a Libertarian?

Just how close is a Libertarian to an anarchist?

 

[Tom Clancy]

You just blew my mind.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

We've argued over the house left to burn because the homeowner failed to pay an optional fee for fire protection, and many "Libertarians'" or conservatives have argued vehemently against using the taxing power of government to assure fire protection for every structure.

Fine, fine fine....but it left me wondering, what do Libertarians see as essential government services?

I'm sure there's no one universally-accepted Libertarian hymnal, but I have read so often on USMB that "education is never mentioned in the constitution" and "the general welfare clause does not support Obamacare", etc. I am fairly certain most Libertarians are opposed to any social program whatsoever. Am I correct in this?

What about national defense? Immigration and border protection?

How about currency, banking regulation etc.? Any role for government in this vein considered to be essential by Libertarians?

What about criminal law and justice? Would a Libertarian support anti-drug or anti-abortion laws? Anti-suicide laws? Anti-murder laws?

We could just close all government offices and declare the US is now a ginormous commune. Does that appeal to a Libertarian?

Just how close is a Libertarian to an anarchist?

The fee was NOT OPTIONAL. You either paid it for service or you got no service. No option at all. Pay and be covered, don't pay and not be covered.

I personally find that a foolish way to run an essential service. The city should REQUIRE payment or enact a tax to cover the Fire Department. But it is their city and they are free to use what ever system they want.

Libertarians are just a notch up from anarchy. They do not believe Government above local has any authority over them ( or rather shouldn't) They believe that a court should be used to solve problems not the Government via enforced laws. A Local Court of course.

In my case here in NC we have volunteer fire Departments outside the city. They do fund raisers during the year and I always contribute.

 

[wyomingpatriot]

I like the colbert quote from a while back: "The government's role is to not ask what I'm doing on my compound."

if "libertarians" were true to their principles, yes, libertarianism essentially means absolute freedom of the individual - hence, anarchy. but then that anarchy would quickly evolve into government in a different form, that of varying factions and gangs, because throughout all of history humans have never been able to resist the urge to have power over others, and these would eventually form states.
government and law is a natural, inevitable tendency, and should be embraced, not inherently feared. thats what's known as civilization.

 

[Madeline]

We've argued over the house left to burn because the homeowner failed to pay an optional fee for fire protection, and many "Libertarians'" or conservatives have argued vehemently against using the taxing power of government to assure fire protection for every structure.

Fine, fine fine....but it left me wondering, what do Libertarians see as essential government services?

I'm sure there's no one universally-accepted Libertarian hymnal, but I have read so often on USMB that "education is never mentioned in the constitution" and "the general welfare clause does not support Obamacare", etc. I am fairly certain most Libertarians are opposed to any social program whatsoever. Am I correct in this?

What about national defense? Immigration and border protection?

How about currency, banking regulation etc.? Any role for government in this vein considered to be essential by Libertarians?

What about criminal law and justice? Would a Libertarian support anti-drug or anti-abortion laws? Anti-suicide laws? Anti-murder laws?

We could just close all government offices and declare the US is now a ginormous commune. Does that appeal to a Libertarian?

Just how close is a Libertarian to an anarchist?

The fee was NOT OPTIONAL. You either paid it for service or you got no service. No option at all. Pay and be covered, don't pay and not be covered.

I personally find that a foolish way to run an essential service. The city should REQUIRE payment or enact a tax to cover the Fire Department. But it is their city and they are free to use what ever system they want.

Libertarians are just a notch up from anarchy. They do not believe Government above local has any authority over them ( or rather shouldn't) They believe that a court should be used to solve problems not the Government via enforced laws. A Local Court of course.

In my case here in NC we have volunteer fire Departments outside the city. They do fund raisers during the year and I always contribute.

RGS, what do Libertarians view as "local government"? Do they want the US dissolved?

 

[California Girl]

True freedom is anarchy. Our founders created a document to ensure maximum freedom without tipping us over into anarchy. I see nothing wrong with that.

 

[California Girl]

We've argued over the house left to burn because the homeowner failed to pay an optional fee for fire protection, and many "Libertarians'" or conservatives have argued vehemently against using the taxing power of government to assure fire protection for every structure.

Fine, fine fine....but it left me wondering, what do Libertarians see as essential government services?

I'm sure there's no one universally-accepted Libertarian hymnal, but I have read so often on USMB that "education is never mentioned in the constitution" and "the general welfare clause does not support Obamacare", etc. I am fairly certain most Libertarians are opposed to any social program whatsoever. Am I correct in this?

What about national defense? Immigration and border protection?

How about currency, banking regulation etc.? Any role for government in this vein considered to be essential by Libertarians?

What about criminal law and justice? Would a Libertarian support anti-drug or anti-abortion laws? Anti-suicide laws? Anti-murder laws?

We could just close all government offices and declare the US is now a ginormous commune. Does that appeal to a Libertarian?

Just how close is a Libertarian to an anarchist?

The fee was NOT OPTIONAL. You either paid it for service or you got no service. No option at all. Pay and be covered, don't pay and not be covered.

I personally find that a foolish way to run an essential service. The city should REQUIRE payment or enact a tax to cover the Fire Department. But it is their city and they are free to use what ever system they want.

Libertarians are just a notch up from anarchy. They do not believe Government above local has any authority over them ( or rather shouldn't) They believe that a court should be used to solve problems not the Government via enforced laws. A Local Court of course.

In my case here in NC we have volunteer fire Departments outside the city. They do fund raisers during the year and I always contribute.

RGS, what do Libertarians view as "local government"? Do they want the US dissolved?

No offense, Mads but how the fuck do you know how to vote cuz sometimes you ask some really, really dumb questions.

If I were you, I would educate myself on each of the main parties so you actually know who you're supporting.

 

[wyomingpatriot]

Theres no civilization without a firm pillar of government beneath it. Humans couldnt have survived without this instinct. True freedom is chaos and destruction.

 

[Skull Pilot]

I call myself a libertarian and do not believe I am an anarchist.

As far as "essential" government services go I would ask you to define essential. A certain amount of government is a necessary evil but I do not feel that most of what government does these days is essential.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Theres no civilization without a firm pillar of government beneath it. Humans couldnt have survived without this instinct. True freedom is chaos and destruction.

I think you better look up the definition of instinct.

 

[Madeline]

I call myself a libertarian and do not believe I am an anarchist.

As far as "essential" government services go I would ask you to define essential. A certain amount of government is a necessary evil but I do not feel that most of what government does these days is essential.

So, Skull Pilot, what is an essential government service IYO? Do you agree with RGS, these services should be delivered locally?

Is there any need at all, in your view, for a state or federal government? If so, what for?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

I call myself a libertarian and do not believe I am an anarchist.

As far as "essential" government services go I would ask you to define essential. A certain amount of government is a necessary evil but I do not feel that most of what government does these days is essential.

So, Skull Pilot, what is an essential government service IYO? Do you agree with RGS, these services should be delivered locally?

Is there any need at all, in your view, for a state or federal government? If so, what for?

I am NOT a libertarian, do NOT ascribe to me their beliefs just because I informed you of them.

Libertarians believe that anything above the County level is unneeded Government. They believe that rather then pass criminal laws you just use civil law to sue people for any "affront". Get raped? No problem sue them in a local court for damages. Prisons would not exist for most current crimes.

Someone murders your family? Sue them in civil Court.

Your house catches on fire? To damn bad, should have been more careful.

 

[Madeline]

I call myself a libertarian and do not believe I am an anarchist.

As far as "essential" government services go I would ask you to define essential. A certain amount of government is a necessary evil but I do not feel that most of what government does these days is essential.

So, Skull Pilot, what is an essential government service IYO? Do you agree with RGS, these services should be delivered locally?

Is there any need at all, in your view, for a state or federal government? If so, what for?

I am NOT a libertarian, do NOT ascribe to me their beliefs just because I informed you of them.

Libertarians believe that anything above the County level is unneeded Government. They believe that rather then pass criminal laws you just use civil law to sue people for any "affront". Get raped? No problem sue them in a local court for damages. Prisons would not exist for most current crimes.

Someone murders your family? Sue them in civil Court.

Your house catches on fire? To damn bad, should have been more careful.

That's pretty radical. What happens if your rapist is poor?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

So, Skull Pilot, what is an essential government service IYO? Do you agree with RGS, these services should be delivered locally?

Is there any need at all, in your view, for a state or federal government? If so, what for?

I am NOT a libertarian, do NOT ascribe to me their beliefs just because I informed you of them.

Libertarians believe that anything above the County level is unneeded Government. They believe that rather then pass criminal laws you just use civil law to sue people for any "affront". Get raped? No problem sue them in a local court for damages. Prisons would not exist for most current crimes.

Someone murders your family? Sue them in civil Court.

Your house catches on fire? To damn bad, should have been more careful.

That's pretty radical. What happens if your rapist is poor?

Ask a Libertarian.

 

[Skull Pilot]

I call myself a libertarian and do not believe I am an anarchist.

As far as "essential" government services go I would ask you to define essential. A certain amount of government is a necessary evil but I do not feel that most of what government does these days is essential.

So, Skull Pilot, what is an essential government service IYO? Do you agree with RGS, these services should be delivered locally?

Is there any need at all, in your view, for a state or federal government? If so, what for?

I believe I already stipulated that government is a necessary evil

Federal government is needed but it should be limited to functions of national security and international affairs.

It makes sense that local governments handle the rest.

 

[Madeline]

I call myself a libertarian and do not believe I am an anarchist.

As far as "essential" government services go I would ask you to define essential. A certain amount of government is a necessary evil but I do not feel that most of what government does these days is essential.

So, Skull Pilot, what is an essential government service IYO? Do you agree with RGS, these services should be delivered locally?

Is there any need at all, in your view, for a state or federal government? If so, what for?

I believe I already stipulated that government is a necessary evil

Federal government is needed but it should be limited to functions of national security and international affairs.

It makes sense that local governments handle the rest.

Do you see a role for the federal government in regulating banking/finance? Commerce?

 

[wyomingpatriot]

Local governments alone dont have the power to establish universities or hospitals, or even an economy. Theyre too poor. It doesnt work. A libertarian society would rot, and then come crawling back to the big bad federal government for a handout.

 

[Si modo]

Godd grief...the libertarian/anarchist analogy again.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Godd grief...the libertarian/anarchist analogy again.

Libertarians are one step up from Anarchy. Pretty simple concept to fathom.

 

[Ravi]

Are Libertarians Closet Anarchists?

No, they are fake anarchists. They will send their children to public schools, take government loans, use any government service they can while telling everyone else that they have no right to do so.

In other words, they have their hands out while spitting in yours.