Are Johns as Bad as Hookers?

[jillian]

Jillian, seriously, what do you think the chances of a guy like you and a girl like me...

Well, I'm married....

and I don't date inter-species....

perhaps you'd do better with:

 

[StoneSoup]

Married???? What was all that one in a million talk????

Congratulations on getting the laptop in the kitchen though. Now mind those biscuits, they could burn if you aren't careful.

 

[Pillow Biter]

Tech,

Just realized you're in the city as well. Sounds like you're over in NE (aka Nurgahville). If you're east of 9th, I feel for you, bro.

You hit the H Street Festival this weekend? Talk about a show. One day a year quality bush can walk them streets and not be in danger of a hate crime (of the Alabama blacksnake ---> vagina kind).

 

[Tech_Esq]

Tech,

Just realized you're in the city as well. Sounds like you're over in NE (aka Nurgahville). If you're east of 9th, I feel for you, bro.

You hit the H Street Festival this weekend? Talk about a show. One day a year quality bush can walk them streets and not be in danger of a hate crime (of the Alabama blacksnake ---> vagina kind).

I am currently in NE, yes. I think I'll leave it at that.

No, I live in the exurbs in VA. I was at the Wine Fest over the weekend.

 

[ABikerSailor]

You know, I kinda think that prostitution should be legal. Lemmie explain.........

I spent 20 years in the Navy, and, when overseas, 2-4 days isn't long enough to get to know some girl in Europe, meet her family, and then have sex with her (that takes about 2-3 weeks), so, if you don't go to a brothel, you're celibate for the cruise.

Most countries over in Europe, prostitution is legal and regulated. Catania Sicily has one of the better red light districts that I've see by the way. Around 6:00 pm, the girls start gathering in this 4 block square area with lots of little buildings in it. Around 7:00, they start sitting out in the street, wearing lace and stuff, waiting for customers. You walk up, negotiate a price, and then she takes you into her little room, scrubs you down, services you, scrubs you off again, and sends you on your way. The cops are walking up and down the streets, making sure that everyone stays civil. Great place by the way.

Same with the "dance clubs" of Spain. Outstanding brothels, most of which had a burlesque show to watch as well.

If we would do something like that here in the US, we'd have another revenue stream of taxes, which would help fund things like health care.

Nope........legalize it. You'd probably also see the rape statistics drop as well if it was allowed.

 

[chanel]

Fine career for someone else's daughter, eh?

 

[ABikerSailor]

Fine career for someone else's daughter, eh?

You know........I've got a cousin, whom I raised, and treated just like my daughter, as her mother (my aunt) was a single mother. I stood in as the big brother/father figure for her 2 daughters.

One of them works in this kind of industry. I won't tell you exactly what she does, but she's very familiar with this kind of thing.

I also love and respect her very much. So what if her job is looked down upon by prudish assholes? She's happy with what she's doing, and she's doing pretty well for herself.

No, a person should support their family in whatever they want to do, as long as they do it safely and take good care of themselves.

 

[JD_2B]

Hookers predominantly are owned by a pimp.. Those pimps are the ones who find the Johns.

I think that there should be a lot more research into sex trafficking- because generally, a hooker with a pimp is a human sex slave. Overall, I think that the pimp and the john should be sent to prison, where they can hopefully drop the soap one too many times. The hookers, unless they are independents, should be released (that is, if they were pimped- which is just a fancy way of saying somebody's slave). In that case they are victims.

The independents should be admitted into drug rehab. Usually an independent prostitute gets to that point by becoming hooked on drugs, losing their regular, respectful jobs, and becoming unemployable. They have to support their drug habit somehow, so they turn to prostitution. Drug Rehab might make a difference to them, and give society the room it needs to become enlightened about the current drug dependency epidemic- and in turn, maybe even offer these ex-addict, ex-hookers a respectable job again.

Ahh in a perfect world, right..

I don't think you have a clear understanding of the world of sex workers. It is never that neat and tidy. I'm sure there are plenty of girls out there that are doing it because they like the work. I know that offends lots of people's sensibilities....but there you have it. It's a great big world out there folks and lots of people are doing (and liking) all kinds of things you can't imagine.

Yeah, sure- and strippers really like you...

Look- I am sure there are oddballs everywhere that enjoy doing things that are outside of our traditional societal norms- But hookers who are owned by a pimp are not among them, and the ones who are doped up on meth, heroin, coke, and crack are also not among them, I can assure you.

This is why prostitution could and probably should be legalized. However, this is a slippery slope, too. Just like massage parlors that use the license number of legitimate massage therapists who are actually licensed, and open the massage parlor to partake in illegal activity, so too will whorehouses. Conceptually, I do not think that prostitution should be criminal, but I do think that the surrounding troubles should be. People who run the places would obviously not require their personnel to be drug free (Hell, Disney doesn't even have a drug free workplace, lol) which can perpetuate into a drug selling house, or at least drug trafficking.. And drug use is very very dangerous, at least in concern with certain drugs that must be cooked to be used- OK let me be clear here- I do not think that the coca leaf is bad for you- relatively speaking- but cocaine and crack most certainly are. Methamphetamines, heroine, and prescription drugs that a person does not have a prescription for- also very bad for you. Also, the sex trafficking issue is a MAJOR one. Almost a million new people are trafficked in the sex trade worldwide, every year. That is an estimate! Estimates tend to be conservative, too. Who knows how many whorehouses would have abducted or kidnapped teens or children in them, being forced to have sex to make their owner's wallets fatter. Then there is the issue of rape. How many people would take a prostitute's rape accusations seriously? The fact of the matter is, many would not. That really sucks, when the prostitute is really just a 15 year old girl who was kidnapped and has been forced to lead a life of sexual servitude for the past 2 or 3 years, hypothetically escaped, and is now an "independent" to try to raise the money to get back home, (a different country) where she can reunite with her family and be loved again.

You can sell a baggie of cocaine for 50 bucks.. you can sell a woman for a hundred. The difference is, you can only sell that baggie one time. The woman can be sold over and over and over again.

When we discuss "hookers and johns" please keep in mind that there are a great many women and children in this "profession" who did not make the choice to be there.

 

[ABikerSailor]

If it was legal, they would have a choice, as they would then be able to call the authorities to help them get away from abusive workplaces.

I say legalize it!

 

[Tech_Esq]

JD_2B,

I was objecting to your characterizing it as if all sex workers were in the fix you describe. Yes, many are, but many are not. By driving it underground, you increase not decrease the likelihood of the situations you describe.

Like Sailor's experience, I've seen the same thing in Europe. In Germany, prostitution is well organized and well regulated. (I'm sure well taxed too). The women are required to have regular check ups to ensure they are not spreading STDs. They're vaginas are money making tools, so they take care to ensure they are protected. The Polizei will be there in a hot minute, if anyone tries to be uncivil.

There are certainly areas of the world where sex workers are mostly made up of kidnapped or otherwise sex slave prostitutes, but I think you would find those are mostly in countries where the trade is not legal.

 

[JD_2B]

If it was legal, they would have a choice, as they would then be able to call the authorities to help them get away from abusive workplaces.

I say legalize it!

But see that is the point- not everything is so simple and clear cut. Prostitution being legal, does not mean that the people being prostituted are doing it willingly.. they could still be trafficked, and it would just make it easier for the owners to get away with it.

If someone kept a woman locked in a room, only to let her come out to service the johns, complete with a gun strapped to his belt at all times- Do you really think that she would be able to call the police? Get real, sailor. C'mon.. It's just not likely. And I know that you think that those hookers in Spain are great and all- but have you ever heard of a back door to a business? (of course you have) So then you must realize that the sidewalk standing lacy thong wearing grown up beauties are not the only ones working for the establishments. In fact, sometimes the cops are even <shock> crooked enough to take bribes and keep their mouths shut about it.. and they get their own incentives, too. How many female cops have you seen working red light districts? Not many, I would imagine..

PS- I am a Navy vet, too, shipmate! =) Nice!

 

[noose4]

Or should they be treated more leniently?

both should be treated leniently, prostitution should be legal.

 

[chanel]

I teach high school. I'll be damned if some guidance counselor tells my girls that they have a natural talent for prostitution. Even though many probably do.

I would not mind seeing legalized brothels like they have in Nevada. But that's not the way it would work. It would still be as dangerous and sleazy as it is today. With the exception that the girls would have to pay taxes.

 

[Care4all]

no one will stop prostitution on the street,

with no medical tests of the girls...even in vegas, where there are brothels outside of it in the dessert...street walking was not eliminated....not in the least!

many girls walking are drug addits, supporting a habit and some are college students, paying their way through college higher degrees...they won't be working it in a legal brothel with licensing and a record of them.

NOTHING changes on the street with legalized prostitution in brothels...other than perhaps a married guy wanting some medical assurance so that he doesn't get caught by passing a sexual disease on to his wife... imo.

and pimps ARE WORSE than prostitutes imo....because in most cases pimps abuse their ''ladies'' and have taken advantage like a loan shark, when they are down and out.

 

[JD_2B]

JD_2B,

I was objecting to your characterizing it as if all sex workers were in the fix you describe. Yes, many are, but many are not. By driving it underground, you increase not decrease the likelihood of the situations you describe.

Like Sailor's experience, I've seen the same thing in Europe...

So in other words, since you are also a john, you prefer that prostitution be made legal, and refuse to believe that there is a very sadistic and devastating hidden world, all because you need to get an orgasm, and cant allow yourself to develop any compassion for the women who might actually be putting on an act for their boss to not kill them or their families back home?

Driving it underground?? Sorry but sex trafficking only gets worse when countries legalize brothels.

The State Department’s TIP report confirms that through research by academic, scientific and nongovernmental organizations (NGOs) there is a “direct link between prostitution and trafficking.” Prostitution “contributes to trafficking in persons by serving as a front behind which traffickers for sexual exploitation operate,” the report states. The International Organization for Migration estimates that 500,000 women are annually sold into prostitution in Europe.

Research shows that legalizing prostitution does not remedy the problem of sex trafficking but rather increases it. Where prostitution is legalized, the price for sexual services includes medical examinations, brothel rent and registration fees. In efforts to circumvent these fees, a black market for prostitution emerges. The black market provides cheaper prices, and pimps do not need to adhere to the health codes or age limits the countries set into place.

All of this information, of course, is logical. In the more developed nations, girls and women do not usually choose to go into prostitution because they have opportunities; in addition, they are usually protected so only runaway girls and others in vulnerable situations are in danger of getting lured into the trap of pimps and johns. Thus, the traffickers go to countries where destitute people are looking for a chance to improve their lives. They are prey to the unscrupulous criminals who lure, entrap, lie, ensnare and seduce the unsuspecting and vulnerable children and women. They take them into an isolated place, steal their passports and beat them into submission, so that they will do anything they are told.

Countries with legalized prostitution have three to 10 times as many non-registered women prostitutes as registered prostitutes. Many non-registered women are victims of sex trafficking.
Concerned Women for America - The Horrifying Reality of Sex Trafficking

 

[ABikerSailor]

If it was legal, they would have a choice, as they would then be able to call the authorities to help them get away from abusive workplaces.

I say legalize it!

But see that is the point- not everything is so simple and clear cut. Prostitution being legal, does not mean that the people being prostituted are doing it willingly.. they could still be trafficked, and it would just make it easier for the owners to get away with it.

If someone kept a woman locked in a room, only to let her come out to service the johns, complete with a gun strapped to his belt at all times- Do you really think that she would be able to call the police? Get real, sailor. C'mon.. It's just not likely. And I know that you think that those hookers in Spain are great and all- but have you ever heard of a back door to a business? (of course you have) So then you must realize that the sidewalk standing lacy thong wearing grown up beauties are not the only ones working for the establishments. In fact, sometimes the cops are even <shock> crooked enough to take bribes and keep their mouths shut about it.. and they get their own incentives, too. How many female cops have you seen working red light districts? Not many, I would imagine..

PS- I am a Navy vet, too, shipmate! =) Nice!

Question shipmate, ever been to Sicily? If so, you would see not only the red light district of Catania, but, you'd also see the "street walkers" which handle the lunchtime crowd. Most are independent operators btw, and yes, they are required to carry a current license stating that they are clean and up to date.

IMHO, legalization would solve a lot more problems than it would cause.

 

[TTPANL]

Johns and Hookers are both good -leave them alone.

I'm not into punishing the non-violent -or even the thieves.

If a thief is caught, just take his money and his property -ALL OF IT !

PAY OFF THE DEBT !
Don't pay money to keep him in prison, THAT'S STUPID !

 

[Big Black Dog]

Don't know. Never screwed a John.

 

[JD_2B]

Look at the bottom of page 5- I love how the Johns on this thread conveniently overlooked that post, with plenty of quoted statistics to back up my claims that, basically, for every one licensed sex worker who pays for the tests and the fees and all that, there are 10 unlicensed sex workers who do not.

Look at the bottom of page 5, and respond to that, or you are just being a <bawk bawk> chicken by avoiding the real issue.. ;-)

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Neither Johns nor hookers are as bad as ACORN