Are Johns as Bad as Hookers?

[Wry Catcher]

It depends on the John, and the Hooker. I suspect that hookers, like members of congress, provide the best service to those who pay the most; and Johns, like the public, get screwed rather than the other way around, most of the time.

 

[Tech_Esq]

JD_2B,

I was objecting to your characterizing it as if all sex workers were in the fix you describe. Yes, many are, but many are not. By driving it underground, you increase not decrease the likelihood of the situations you describe.

Like Sailor's experience, I've seen the same thing in Europe...

So in other words, since you are also a john, you prefer that prostitution be made legal, and refuse to believe that there is a very sadistic and devastating hidden world, all because you need to get an orgasm, and cant allow yourself to develop any compassion for the women who might actually be putting on an act for their boss to not kill them or their families back home?

Driving it underground?? Sorry but sex trafficking only gets worse when countries legalize brothels.

The State Department’s TIP report confirms that through research by academic, scientific and nongovernmental organizations (NGOs) there is a “direct link between prostitution and trafficking.” Prostitution “contributes to trafficking in persons by serving as a front behind which traffickers for sexual exploitation operate,” the report states. The International Organization for Migration estimates that 500,000 women are annually sold into prostitution in Europe.

Research shows that legalizing prostitution does not remedy the problem of sex trafficking but rather increases it. Where prostitution is legalized, the price for sexual services includes medical examinations, brothel rent and registration fees. In efforts to circumvent these fees, a black market for prostitution emerges. The black market provides cheaper prices, and pimps do not need to adhere to the health codes or age limits the countries set into place.

All of this information, of course, is logical. In the more developed nations, girls and women do not usually choose to go into prostitution because they have opportunities; in addition, they are usually protected so only runaway girls and others in vulnerable situations are in danger of getting lured into the trap of pimps and johns. Thus, the traffickers go to countries where destitute people are looking for a chance to improve their lives. They are prey to the unscrupulous criminals who lure, entrap, lie, ensnare and seduce the unsuspecting and vulnerable children and women. They take them into an isolated place, steal their passports and beat them into submission, so that they will do anything they are told.

Countries with legalized prostitution have three to 10 times as many non-registered women prostitutes as registered prostitutes. Many non-registered women are victims of sex trafficking.
Concerned Women for America - The Horrifying Reality of Sex Trafficking

So your position is that as long as it is illegal, no trafficking occurs and it is only when the government becomes involved in the regulating and taxing of prostitution that trafficking becomes and issue?

Or, is it your position that trafficking is always a problem and government legalizing, regulating and taxing it only makes it worse?

 

[JD_2B]

I think that legalizing it makes the problems get worse, of course..

I am not judging people who are legal prostitutes or countries that have legalized prostitution, but it certainly contributes to a whole plethora of problems. Legalizing it does not mean that every prostitute whose license you see hanging on a wall is going to be THEIR license, even.

Think outside of the box with me for just a moment, please-

In the US- fully licensed massage parlors everywhere, but sometimes the licenses are not the parlor owners. They are someone else's license- who gets paid like 500 dollars a week for the use of the license.
Its not just massage, either- many professions have prostitution and sex trafficking use this same guise- hair salons, retail stores, clubs, etc.. And then you get into money laundering, because as the establishment grows in clientele, the owners get greedy, and start putting women and little girls into some basement of some house, locked away, and the only time they can go anywhere is when they are filed out to the car, blindfolded, until they reach some bachelor party, where they are forced to have sex with men so that the owner can get paid a few grand.

Look- I do not like pimps, or even the word itself. Johns and hookers would be few and far between if it wasnt for the problem with worldwide human slavery through the sex industry.

Also, I do think that Johns are very bad men- because they think with their penises, and not with their brains. Why would anyone go out and spend even 20 dollars on a hooker, when you can simply go to a bar, and meet someone who hasn't been with like 10,000 people? Its gross and stupid and I have no respect for any of it! Why do some guys minimize their own prowess to the point that they actually PAY someone to sleep with them? Why???

 

[ABikerSailor]

If it was legal, then more people would be inclined to get their license.

Additionally, it would make it easier to keep regulated and safe. The only reason that most of you have a bad perception of prostitution is because you've never been in a place where it is legal and established.

Trust me.......there are VERY FEW unlicensed sex workers in Europe.

 

[Tech_Esq]

I think that legalizing it makes the problems get worse, of course..

I am not judging people who are legal prostitutes or countries that have legalized prostitution, but it certainly contributes to a whole plethora of problems. Legalizing it does not mean that every prostitute whose license you see hanging on a wall is going to be THEIR license, even.

Think outside of the box with me for just a moment, please-

In the US- fully licensed massage parlors everywhere, but sometimes the licenses are not the parlor owners. They are someone else's license- who gets paid like 500 dollars a week for the use of the license.
Its not just massage, either- many professions have prostitution and sex trafficking use this same guise- hair salons, retail stores, clubs, etc.. And then you get into money laundering, because as the establishment grows in clientele, the owners get greedy, and start putting women and little girls into some basement of some house, locked away, and the only time they can go anywhere is when they are filed out to the car, blindfolded, until they reach some bachelor party, where they are forced to have sex with men so that the owner can get paid a few grand.

Look- I do not like pimps, or even the word itself. Johns and hookers would be few and far between if it wasnt for the problem with worldwide human slavery through the sex industry.

Also, I do think that Johns are very bad men- because they think with their penises, and not with their brains. Why would anyone go out and spend even 20 dollars on a hooker, when you can simply go to a bar, and meet someone who hasn't been with like 10,000 people? Its gross and stupid and I have no respect for any of it! Why do some guys minimize their own prowess to the point that they actually PAY someone to sleep with them? Why???

I'll answer your last question, much the way sailor did a while ago. If you are in the military and you don't speak the language and you are stuck in a foreign country (and for us, going to the field constantly so you are only in garrison for a few days at a time), either you are going to do without sex, or you are going to pay for it.

In my particular case, I spent 150+ of my first 180 days in Germany in the field. The time I got back was not in one clump but spread over the course of 6 months. Now, at the time, the mark rate (yes marks) was about 3.5 to the dollar. That means I could go out, eat dinner, get drunk and get laid all for less than $30 US. Why in the hell wouldn't I get laid for that?

As for the number of people someone has been with, I'm the last one to cast aspersions about that. If you are happy about your 3, I'm happy for you. Others make a different choice about what sex is to them and in their lives.

 

[JD_2B]

The Beverly LeHaye Institute begs to differ.. Again you arbitrarily decided to circumvent reading the quoted text! You also failed to answer my question.

PS- I do not think that prostitution should be a criminal offense, but sex trafficking IS a MAJOR issue, and one that you clearly do not have the emotional capacity to even consider, much less discuss. <bawk bawk>

 

[Tech_Esq]

If it was legal, then more people would be inclined to get their license.

Additionally, it would make it easier to keep regulated and safe. The only reason that most of you have a bad perception of prostitution is because you've never been in a place where it is legal and established.

Trust me.......there are VERY FEW unlicensed sex workers in Europe.

Very true! I would never visit one here. But, it's a different story in Europe (or it was when I was there). I may have changed. There is a lot about the world over there that has changed.

 

[Tech_Esq]

The Beverly LeHaye Institute begs to differ.. Again you arbitrarily decided to circumvent reading the quoted text! You also failed to answer my question.

PS- I do not think that prostitution should be a criminal offense, but sex trafficking IS a MAJOR issue, and one that you clearly do not have the emotional capacity to even consider, much less discuss. <bawk bawk>

I think sex trafficking is a problem. (Major or minor isn't relevant until you are talking about allocation of resources), but I disagree with your opinion that legalization leads to greater trafficking. The Beverly folks have a policy position. I understand that and you should too. The people that though drinking alcohol thought that prohibition of alcohol would solve all of the societal ills of alcoholism. They convinced so many people they got a Constitutional amendment passed (imagine that!) and? They were wrong.

Similarly, the Beverly folks are well-intentioned, but wrong. By taking up their position, so are you.

 

[JD_2B]

The Beverly LeHaye Institute begs to differ.. Again you arbitrarily decided to circumvent reading the quoted text! You also failed to answer my question.

PS- I do not think that prostitution should be a criminal offense, but sex trafficking IS a MAJOR issue, and one that you clearly do not have the emotional capacity to even consider, much less discuss. <bawk bawk>

I think sex trafficking is a problem. (Major or minor isn't relevant until you are talking about allocation of resources), but I disagree with your opinion that legalization leads to greater trafficking. The Beverly folks have a policy position. I understand that and you should too. The people that though drinking alcohol thought that prohibition of alcohol would solve all of the societal ills of alcoholism. They convinced so many people they got a Constitutional amendment passed (imagine that!) and? They were wrong.

I wholeheartedly agree about the sentiment you have on substances.. But that doesn't mean that I think that, say, crack should be legalized. Marijuana, on the other hand, and other substances (ones that do not require cooking and mixing, creating a volatile environment that is prone to explode), no matter how bad they are for someone, should definitely be legalized, or at least de-criminalized. How is prohibition of alcohol related to this subject by the way? It is illogical to use the prohibition analogy against acts, rather than substances. Doing this might give your opponent to say something like "well since prohibition against alcohol didn't work, and prohibition against murder doesn't work- then why not just legalize murder and rape and everything else that happens to be illegal, all based on my prohibition analogy!" See how irrelevant that is now? =)

Similarly, the Beverly folks are well-intentioned, but wrong. By taking up their position, so are you.

Prove it. Prove they are wrong. I provided a source- so can you... (except that there is no basis to your claim that I am wrong, lol)

 

[JW Frogen]

Question shipmate, ever been to Sicily? If so, you would see not only the red light district of Catania, but, you'd also see the "street walkers" which handle the lunchtime crowd. Most are independent operators btw, and yes, they are required to carry a current license stating that they are clean and up to date.

IMHO, legalization would solve a lot more problems than it would cause.

Do it in 'The Gut', sexy, sexy.

Though I preferred the Involtini di Melanzane.

What makes sex exciting is the chase, the seduction, the emotional turmoil. You can't get that with a VISA card.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Question shipmate, ever been to Sicily? If so, you would see not only the red light district of Catania, but, you'd also see the "street walkers" which handle the lunchtime crowd. Most are independent operators btw, and yes, they are required to carry a current license stating that they are clean and up to date.

IMHO, legalization would solve a lot more problems than it would cause.

Do it in 'The Gut', sexy, sexy.

Though I preferred the Involtini di Melanzane.

What makes sex exciting is the chase, the seduction, the emotional turmoil. You can't get that with a VISA card.

True......you can't get that with a VISA, but when you're in port for only 3 days to a week, time is kind of an issue, and you don't always have the time for chasing, seduction, and emotion.

VISA is not as exciting, granted..........but when time is an issue, it's always nice to know you can flush your pipes without too much investment of time.

 

[JW Frogen]

True......you can't get that with a VISA, but when you're in port for only 3 days to a week, time is kind of an issue, and you don't always have the time for chasing, seduction, and emotion.

.

Fair enough shipmate. I was stationed at NAS Sigonella for four years so had all the time in the world. It counted as sea duty too at the time!!!!!!!


Side note however, though the prostitution is well regulated and safe, organised crime still gets their cut there, but then they get it pretty much everywhere there.

 

[JW Frogen]

I worked with a guy who got out of the Navy and married a prostitute in Sicily, she was from some where in South America and made enough money to go back home and open a resturant with him.