*Are Guns Bad?*

[hboats]

A gun is an inanimate object. It can be neither good nor bad.

Damn, and here I posted my stupid long winded post to say exactly the same thing you've said in two sentences.

Rick

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Sorry bout that,

1. Well are they?
2. Most deaths due to guns involve a shooter and a dead person.
3. Can being shot always be blamed on a gun, or does a shooter, and his reasons for shooting have any bearing?
4.Is shooting some people a good thing?
5. Can some one get shot, and the shooting be considered a clean shooting, or is the gun still bad, in any case?
6. Read this, it may change your mind about how you think about this topic:


""The Gun Is Civilization"
By Maj. L. Caudill USMC (Ret)

Human beings only have two ways to deal with one another: reason and force. If you want me to do something for you, you have a choice of either convincing me via argument, or force me to do your bidding under threat of force. Every human interaction falls into one of those two categories, without exception. Reason or force, that's it.

In a truly moral and civilized society, people exclusively interact through persuasion. Force has no place as a valid method of social interaction, and the only thing that removes force from the menu is the personal firearm, as paradoxical as it may sound to some.

When I carry a gun, you cannot deal with me by force. You have to use reason and try to persuade me, because I have a way to negate your threat or employment of force.

The gun is the only personal weapon that puts a 100-pound woman on equal footing with a 220-pound mugger, a 75-year old retiree on equal footing with a 19-year old gang banger, and a single guy on equal footing with a carload of drunk guys with baseball bats. The gun removes the disparity in physical strength, size, or numbers between a potential attacker and a defender.

There are plenty of people who consider the gun as the source of bad force equations. These are the people who think that we'd be more civilized if all guns were removed from society, because a firearm makes it easier for a [armed] mugger to do his job. That, of course, is only true if the mugger's potential victims are mostly disarmed either by choice or by legislative fiat - it has no validity when most of a mugger's potential marks are armed.

People who argue for the banning of arms ask for automatic rule by the young, the strong, and the many, and that's the exact opposite of a civilized society. A mugger, even an armed one, can only make a successful living in a society where the state has granted him a force monopoly.

Then there's the argument that the gun makes confrontations lethal that otherwise would only result in injury. This argument is fallacious in several ways. Without guns involved, confrontations are won by the physically superior party inflicting overwhelming injury on the loser.

People who think that fists, bats, sticks, or stones don't constitute lethal force watch too much TV, where people take beatings and come out of it with a bloody lip at worst. The fact that the gun makes lethal force easier works solely in favor of the weaker defender, not the stronger attacker. If both are armed, the field is level.

The gun is the only weapon that's as lethal in the hands of an octogenarian as it is in the hands of a weight lifter. It simply wouldn't work as well as a force equalizer if it wasn't both lethal and easily employable.

When I carry a gun, I don't do so because I am looking for a fight, but because I'm looking to be left alone. The gun at my side means that I cannot be forced, only persuaded. I don't carry it because I'm afraid, but because it enables me to be unafraid. It doesn't limit the actions of those who would interact with me through reason, only the actions of those who would do so by force. It removes force from the equation... And that's why carrying a gun is a civilized act.

By Maj. L. Caudill USMC (Ret.)


So the greatest civilization is one where all citizens are equally armed and can only be persuaded, never forced.




6. Maybe its time to start carrying a peace eh folks?



Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

Blaming a gun for killing someone is like blaming a pencil for misspelled words.

 

[Gadawg73]

There was a disputed property line case I worked in Cuthbert, Ga. a few years ago. One neighbor cut up the legs and torso of his neighbor pretty good with a Toro weed eater. The man almost died.
How come there was no 3 day waiting period to purchase weed eaters at Home Depot, Lowes and such places? Folks need 3 days to cool down when they have disputes with their neighbors. How come this weed eater was not registered with the Federal government. The special chain that was on it was a custom buy and dangerous. How come there is no regulation on those chains as that did real damage to the man that was attacked almost killing him?
Folks can wait 3 days to weed eat their yards. The Federal government needs to get involved.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

I have owned guns since I was 12 years old. I do not and will not own a gun that is only designed for the killing of other human beings. I can defend myself adaquetly with a hunting gun. And have done so on one occasion. And I will not ever put a gun on an alter as the OP seems to be doing. A gun is a tool. No more to be diefied than a crecent wrench.

I don't guess you'll be visiting my gun shop anytime soon.

 

[Foxfyre]

Guns don't kill people. People kill people.

We've all heard that old saying.

A gun in and of itself is nothing.

Its the mentality of the person holding the gun thats the problem in most cases.

Hell. Some folks would shoot you for your car a pair of sneakers or for 50 cents.

To those folks human life means nothing and is worth less than nothing.

Unfortunatley we have plenty of folks like that in this country.

Is a gun bad?? Nope. The bad parts comes in with some of the folks who use guns..

Hmmm. Be killed by a shot from a handgun or rifle or be knifed to death or be blugeoned to death with a baseball bat or hammer. Tough choice huh?

Again where is it written that protecting one's own life or that of loved ones is a bad thing? The same gun can be used to protect just as it can be used for evil intent. And I prefer the gun to that knife or baseball bat or hammer when confronted by somebody or something intent on doing severe harm to my person.

 

[Gadawg73]

I was attending a Hawks basketball game years ago at the old Omni in downtown Atlanta. We always parked on International Blvd. going down that back hill before the World Congress Center and Georgia Dome were built. Traffic was waiting for the light after the game and an urban outdoorsman and his side kick were doubling as windshield washers asking everyone waiting at that light if they wanted their windshield washed. I told him no. He proceeded to lift my wipers up, spray the windshield with his spray and wipe it off with his rag. "$3 sir" he demanded. I told him to get away from my car Ms. Ethel.
"If you want your wiper assembly intact you will now give me $5" was his reply.
My grandmother had a beautiful white porcelain tea set dating from the 1800s with large shiny white tea sets. The eyes of those urban outdoorsman after I pulled my Ruger .357 Black Hawk out from under the front seat of Ms. Ethel and stuck it on one's nose as he let go of my wiper assembly were twice the size of those shiny white tea plates.

 

[M14 Shooter]

I was attending a Hawks basketball game years ago at the old Omni in downtown Atlanta. We always parked on International Blvd. going down that back hill before the World Congress Center and Georgia Dome were built. Traffic was waiting for the light after the game and an urban outdoorsman and his side kick were doubling as windshield washers asking everyone waiting at that light if they wanted their windshield washed. I told him no. He proceeded to lift my wipers up, spray the windshield with his spray and wipe it off with his rag. "$3 sir" he demanded. I told him to get away from my car Ms. Ethel.
"If you want your wiper assembly intact you will now give me $5" was his reply.
My grandmother had a beautiful white porcelain tea set dating from the 1800s with large shiny white tea sets. The eyes of those urban outdoorsman after I pulled my Ruger .357 Black Hawk out from under the front seat of Ms. Ethel and stuck it on one's nose as he let go of my wiper assembly were twice the size of those shiny white tea plates.

Clearly, you are a racist and hate the poor.

 

[Claudette]

Guns don't kill people. People kill people.

We've all heard that old saying.

A gun in and of itself is nothing.

Its the mentality of the person holding the gun thats the problem in most cases.

Hell. Some folks would shoot you for your car a pair of sneakers or for 50 cents.

To those folks human life means nothing and is worth less than nothing.

Unfortunatley we have plenty of folks like that in this country.

Is a gun bad?? Nope. The bad parts comes in with some of the folks who use guns..

Hmmm. Be killed by a shot from a handgun or rifle or be knifed to death or be blugeoned to death with a baseball bat or hammer. Tough choice huh?

Again where is it written that protecting one's own life or that of loved ones is a bad thing? The same gun can be used to protect just as it can be used for evil intent. And I prefer the gun to that knife or baseball bat or hammer when confronted by somebody or something intent on doing severe harm to my person.

Protecting yourself and your property is a good thing. Guns are a formidable weapon in the hands of someone defending themselves.

My weapon of choice is the shotgun. Believe me in defence of me and mine I can and will use it. If the agressor is killed. Oh well. He should have tried to do harm to someone who didn't have a gun.

 

[Gadawg73]

I was attending a Hawks basketball game years ago at the old Omni in downtown Atlanta. We always parked on International Blvd. going down that back hill before the World Congress Center and Georgia Dome were built. Traffic was waiting for the light after the game and an urban outdoorsman and his side kick were doubling as windshield washers asking everyone waiting at that light if they wanted their windshield washed. I told him no. He proceeded to lift my wipers up, spray the windshield with his spray and wipe it off with his rag. "$3 sir" he demanded. I told him to get away from my car Ms. Ethel.
"If you want your wiper assembly intact you will now give me $5" was his reply.
My grandmother had a beautiful white porcelain tea set dating from the 1800s with large shiny white tea sets. The eyes of those urban outdoorsman after I pulled my Ruger .357 Black Hawk out from under the front seat of Ms. Ethel and stuck it on one's nose as he let go of my wiper assembly were twice the size of those shiny white tea plates.

Clearly, you are a racist and hate the poor.

Ms Ethel and the Ruger may be.

 

[Nosmo King]

Sorry bout that,






6. Maybe its time to start carrying a peace eh folks?



Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

LOVE this typo. Irony is overflowing. You're quickly becoming my new favorite poster on this site.

Nice catch! I saw it too and thought someone's Freudian slip was showing.

I found the premise of the Marine's argument for guns was fatally flawed.

"Human beings only have two ways to deal with one another: reason and force. If you want me to do something for you, you have a choice of either convincing me via argument, or force me to do your bidding under threat of force. Every human interaction falls into one of those two categories, without exception. Reason or force, that's it."

Written by someone lacking in the virtues of humanity. Obviously, this jarhead does not believe in the common good.

 

[The Infidel]

This is an evil thing to see if you come into my house un-invited

 

[M14 Shooter]

Written by someone lacking in the virtues of humanity. Obviously, this jarhead does not believe in the common good.

The statement was made in the context of getting people to do things they do not want to do - use reason to change their mind, or force them to do it.
In that, he is absolutely correct.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Basically it is like any tool, it is the use it is put to.
However one thing to consider is that many guns are only designed for shooting people.
No quite like killing someone with a hammer which has several other useful purposes.

The right to arms is all about killing people, as it is sometimes necessary to do so.
Given that, the "many guns are only designed for shooting people" are -exactly- those protected by the Constitution.

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

I'm still thinkin'.....the fact, we now have a standing-Army, makes this Amendment a mere antiquity.​

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Sorry bout that,






6. Maybe its time to start carrying a peace eh folks?



Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

LOVE this typo. Irony is overflowing. You're quickly becoming my new favorite poster on this site.

Nice catch! I saw it too and thought someone's Freudian slip was showing.

I found the premise of the Marine's argument for guns was fatally flawed.

"Human beings only have two ways to deal with one another: reason and force. If you want me to do something for you, you have a choice of either convincing me via argument, or force me to do your bidding under threat of force. Every human interaction falls into one of those two categories, without exception. Reason or force, that's it."

Written by someone lacking in the virtues of humanity. Obviously, this jarhead does not believe in the common good.

What is "the common good" and who gets to define it?

I submit that what may be good for you may not be good for me and vice versa.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

This is an evil thing to see if you come into my house un-invited

Looks like a Mosberg 500 camper special. I sell them with interchangable barrels and stocks.

 

[Two Thumbs]

Guns are objects.

They can't be evil, or good.

It's the person holding it that is evil or good.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

When necessary force is required? Not at all. Gun's are not good or evil of themselves. Self Defense, Preservation, Force of Law, Hunting, Play. What can be Evil is intention.

And with all due respect to Old Rocks' point of view, what gun can not be used for purposes other than killing people? Most of our cowboys out here in the wild west have a rifle on their saddle or a revolver on their hip.

You watch too-many movies.

Have you ever (actually) been to the Denver Stock Show???

​

 

[M14 Shooter]

I'm still thinkin'.....the fact, we now have a standing-Army, makes this Amendment a mere antiquity.

Apparently your thoughts did not go deeply enough to see that the resoning behind the 2nd applies today every bit as much as it did back then:
-People have the right to use deadly force in the exercise of their right to self defense
-As such, the right to an effective means of exercising that right shall be proteced.

 

[Nosmo King]

LOVE this typo. Irony is overflowing. You're quickly becoming my new favorite poster on this site.

Nice catch! I saw it too and thought someone's Freudian slip was showing.

I found the premise of the Marine's argument for guns was fatally flawed.

"Human beings only have two ways to deal with one another: reason and force. If you want me to do something for you, you have a choice of either convincing me via argument, or force me to do your bidding under threat of force. Every human interaction falls into one of those two categories, without exception. Reason or force, that's it."

Written by someone lacking in the virtues of humanity. Obviously, this jarhead does not believe in the common good.

What is "the common good" and who gets to define it?

I submit that what may be good for you may not be good for me and vice versa.

It figures something as elemental to the race as 'the common good' would require a definition for Conservatives.

Put out the fire, cure the disease, drain the swap, pave the road, teach the children, feed the hungry.

These actions are for the common good and society thinks so.

Do you need a gun to convince someone to do these things? If reason fails (and a quick glance toward the Tea Party types shows that reason fails) do we need to enforce these things by the barrel of a gun?

 

[M14 Shooter]

It figures something as elemental to the race as 'the common good' would require a definition for Conservatives.

Put out the fire, cure the disease, drain the swap, pave the road, teach the children, feed the hungry.

These actions are for the common good and society thinks so.

Do you need a gun to convince someone to do these things? If reason fails (and a quick glance toward the Tea Party types shows that reason fails) do we need to enforce these things by the barrel of a gun?

Thank you for clearly illustrating that you aren't here to actually discuss the subject, but rather engage is shallow - and rather unimaginative - partisan bigotry.

Please let us know when you have something worthwhile to add to the topic.