are firefighters and police more important than teachers ?

[bodecea]

david gregory just asked gov walker on meat the press, about some exemptions for police and fire, while still encouraging them to engage in collective bargaining.


""are you saying that sand police are more important than teachers who spend six hours a day in a class room?"

and i say... yes, yes they are. they are more important to our society.

Only to teacher's unions and lazy Mexican mothers who want the American taxpayer to raise their children.

your ignorance is a testament to your lack of education.

Let's blame his teachers who didn't educate him....

 

[Intense]

So are public employees.

Yes and no. In Civil Defense or State of Emergency, no. In Core Constitutional Role or Capacity, Federal or State, no. In the ability to fill positions with competitive bidding for jobs, no. In risk to health and Life, no.

The way they are on the same side of the coin is their pay and benefits coming from Taxation, which is by design. I think it is silly to compare these vocations, as if they are all the same when they are not.

Not every job in the DOD has the same risk to health and life either. Furthermore, I wasn't aware that there was a constitutional mandate for police and firemen either. As for job eligibility, since the police and firefighters are unionized too, I don't see that as being different from job to job.

No one has compared the vocations, we've just stated they are both essential.

Depends on who is signing the Paycheck, as to what Jurisdiction applies, Federal, State or Local, still, it would fall under Executive Powers, no? Those Departments are an extension of Executive Power, be it President, Governor, County Executive, or Mayor.

DOD is to Active Military what Administration is to the Front Line Class Room.

 

[Intense]

Who here is Demonizing Teachers??? Cops??? Firemen??? Military???

 

[georgephillip]

Good point (I think)
They're all important, we just can't afford to pay them high wages and gold plated medical benefits anymore.

Can we afford anymore multi-trillion dollar bailouts of Wall Street?

I too oppose the bailouts, but in fairness to wall street, government caused the financial distress in the first place. The Clinton administration threatened to use the power of government to effectively shut them down if they didn't make more loans to sub-prime under the rationale they weren't loaning the money because they were greedy. Turns out that wasn't why they weren't loaning them money. Government also underwrote all those sub-prime loans and then sold them to investors who thought government would bail out the portfolios if they got in trouble since government created them. They probably would have except that government created too massive a mess to do that quietly. Then the falling housing prices brought the economy down around it.

Sorry to let facts get in the way of an anti-capitalist rant, but facts aren't a liberals friend.

Depending on whether you consider the Federal Reserve part of government, what role did government play in inflating and then collapsing an $8 trillion housing bubble?

 

[geauxtohell]

Depends on who is signing the Paycheck, as to what Jurisdiction applies, Federal, State or Local, still, it would fall under Executive Powers, no? Those Departments are an extension of Executive Power, be it President, Governor, County Executive, or Mayor.

Again, if you are going to take a strict constitutionalists viewpoint, then you can't account for the police or fire department anymore than the teachers.

In fact, all of these entities are local and at the state and city level.

Furthermore, if we are going to get hung up about how dangerous one job is versus another, then we miss the point. Not everyone intends to be in a dangerous line of work. That doesn't mean they don't serve society.

DOD is to Active Military what Administration is to the Front Line Class Room.

And they all serve a point.

 

[Intense]

Can we afford anymore multi-trillion dollar bailouts of Wall Street?

I too oppose the bailouts, but in fairness to wall street, government caused the financial distress in the first place. The Clinton administration threatened to use the power of government to effectively shut them down if they didn't make more loans to sub-prime under the rationale they weren't loaning the money because they were greedy. Turns out that wasn't why they weren't loaning them money. Government also underwrote all those sub-prime loans and then sold them to investors who thought government would bail out the portfolios if they got in trouble since government created them. They probably would have except that government created too massive a mess to do that quietly. Then the falling housing prices brought the economy down around it.

Sorry to let facts get in the way of an anti-capitalist rant, but facts aren't a liberals friend.

Depending on whether you consider the Federal Reserve part of government, what role did government play in inflating and then collapsing an $8 trillion housing bubble?

Big Role.

 

[geauxtohell]

Who here is Demonizing Teachers??? Cops??? Firemen??? Military???

Ironically, only Cecille who made the original claim.

It's just a throw off. Don't get wrapped up on it.

 

[Intense]

Depends on who is signing the Paycheck, as to what Jurisdiction applies, Federal, State or Local, still, it would fall under Executive Powers, no? Those Departments are an extension of Executive Power, be it President, Governor, County Executive, or Mayor.

Again, if you are going to take a strict constitutionalists viewpoint, then you can't account for the police or fire department anymore than the teachers.

In fact, all of these entities are local and at the state and city level.

Furthermore, if we are going to get hung up about how dangerous one job is versus another, then we miss the point. Not everyone intends to be in a dangerous line of work. That doesn't mean they don't serve society.

DOD is to Active Military what Administration is to the Front Line Class Room.

And they all serve a point.

Again, if you are going to take a strict constitutionalists viewpoint, then you can't account for the police or fire department anymore than the teachers.

From a Constitutionalist View Point there are Officers that serve in All 3 Federal Branches, with Federal Authority. There are those that Serve under State and Local Authority. That has been covered. If not one Constitution, then the other.

Furthermore, if we are going to get hung up about how dangerous one job is versus another, then we miss the point. Not everyone intends to be in a dangerous line of work. That doesn't mean they don't serve society.

You shouldn't compare the Vocations as Equal in merit when they are not. Nobody is Trashing any of these Professions. We all perform Service to Society, both Public and Private Sector.

 

[geauxtohell]

Depends on who is signing the Paycheck, as to what Jurisdiction applies, Federal, State or Local, still, it would fall under Executive Powers, no? Those Departments are an extension of Executive Power, be it President, Governor, County Executive, or Mayor.

Again, if you are going to take a strict constitutionalists viewpoint, then you can't account for the police or fire department anymore than the teachers.

In fact, all of these entities are local and at the state and city level.

Furthermore, if we are going to get hung up about how dangerous one job is versus another, then we miss the point. Not everyone intends to be in a dangerous line of work. That doesn't mean they don't serve society.



And they all serve a point.

Again, if you are going to take a strict constitutionalists viewpoint, then you can't account for the police or fire department anymore than the teachers.

From a Constitutionalist View Point there are Officers that serve in All 3 Federal Branches, with Federal Authority. There are those that Serve under State and Local Authority. That has been covered. If not one Constitution, then the other.

Education is provided for in several state's constitutions.

You shouldn't compare the Vocations as Equal in merit when they are not. Nobody is Trashing any of these Professions. We all perform Service to Society, both Public and Private Sector.

I didn't say they were all equal, just all needed.

 

[Retread Ol' 37]

Without the lobbyist, our politicians wouldn't work, because they wouldn't be comfortable, and without the politicians, our public school teachers wouldn't be paid, because no one would fight for them.

Ergo, Democratic congressmen, union bosses and lobbyists are far more important than teachers.

 

[georgephillip]

I too oppose the bailouts, but in fairness to wall street, government caused the financial distress in the first place. The Clinton administration threatened to use the power of government to effectively shut them down if they didn't make more loans to sub-prime under the rationale they weren't loaning the money because they were greedy. Turns out that wasn't why they weren't loaning them money. Government also underwrote all those sub-prime loans and then sold them to investors who thought government would bail out the portfolios if they got in trouble since government created them. They probably would have except that government created too massive a mess to do that quietly. Then the falling housing prices brought the economy down around it.

Sorry to let facts get in the way of an anti-capitalist rant, but facts aren't a liberals friend.

Depending on whether you consider the Federal Reserve part of government, what role did government play in inflating and then collapsing an $8 trillion housing bubble?

Big Role.

Big Business (Wall Street) and Big Government conspired to inflate and collapse the housing bubble. The cost was socialized, primarily in the forms of unemployment and foreclosures, while the profits were privatized by the richest 1% of US taxpayers.

 

[Intense]

Depending on whether you consider the Federal Reserve part of government, what role did government play in inflating and then collapsing an $8 trillion housing bubble?

Big Role.

Big Business (Wall Street) and Big Government conspired to inflate and collapse the housing bubble. The cost was socialized, primarily in the forms of unemployment and foreclosures, while the profits were privatized by the richest 1% of US taxpayers.

That seems real similar to an old Hamilton Scheme.

 

[georgephillip]

Big Role.

Big Business (Wall Street) and Big Government conspired to inflate and collapse the housing bubble. The cost was socialized, primarily in the forms of unemployment and foreclosures, while the profits were privatized by the richest 1% of US taxpayers.

That seems real similar to an old Hamilton Scheme.

I'm ignorant of the specifics of Hamilton's Scheme; however, governments were socializing cost and privatizing profits for thousands of years before anyone used the word "socialism."

 

[bucs90]

Is the liver more important than the heart?

the liver is the only organ that regenerates.

Skin, the largest organ on the body, regenerates. I learned that from a teacher.

And the buttocks is the strongest muscle group in the body. And yours is protected and saved by cops and firemen.

 

[Intense]

Here is a nice version from the Victors POV. It really sucked though for those that opposed Hamilton. There was Pre Ratification Hamilton and Post Ratification Hamilton. The War Bonds were purchased by Schemers after spreading false rumors about their redeemable worth, for pennies on the dollar. Like some of the Real Estate Schemes today.



Alexander Hamilton was a founding father of the United States. Throughout his lifetime, he has accomplished many goals within the government. The country owed millions in debt due to the Revolutionary War. Alexander Hamilton, the secretary of treasury, had created a set of controversial plans and programs in hopes of settling the financial crisis. Theses plan were very essential because they would restore the nation’s credibility and bring in good relations with foreign countries. However the main obstacle was whether they were constitutional. Alexander Hamilton’s financial program was constitutional because his plans were under “implied” powers which permitted Hamilton to create such programs to resolve the countries financial problems.

Hamilton wanted to pay back those who fought in the Revolutionary War and held bonds. This act was constitutional because he wanted to pay back those who held the certificates. The opposition felt that they should not be paid in full face value because a lot of the bonds were no longer in the hands of the original owners such as soldiers, farmers, and merchants. Instead the speculators bought them at extremely low prices. Hamilton felt that whether the bonds were held by the speculators or not they had to be paid. This was constitutional because it assured the rights of whoever owned the bond to be paid.

The establishment of the first national bank created a lot of debate on whether it could be created based on the constitution. Jefferson felt that it should not be created because an establishment of a bank was never mentioned in the constitution while Hamilton argued that it would be under “implied” powers. Hamilton was correct because in Section 1, Article 8 of the Constitution it says the Congress shall have powers, “To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay for the Debts and provide for the common Defense and general Welfare of the United States.” This would allow the creation of a bank because it would allow a safe place for the government to collect taxes. The collected taxes would be used to pay for the debts owed to foreign countries and to its citizens.

The tax on distilled spirits caused an up roar and ultimately a rebellion from the southern states. They felt that it should not be allowed. In general, it was absolutely allowed because the Constitution granted the government to impose taxes on any items they wished. Also, under Section 1, Article 8 it allows the government to impose and collect taxes for the general welfare. As a result, Congress had no problem in passing and executing this law.



Read more: Alexander Hamilton and His Financial Reports | Socyberty

 

[washamericom]

the liver is the only organ that regenerates.

Skin, the largest organ on the body, regenerates. I learned that from a teacher.

And the buttocks is the strongest muscle group in the body. And yours is protected and saved by cops and firemen.

i can't believe that you guys are still banging this around.
i never meant that any class or profession is better or more important than another. but i do think that teachers are better than they are being represented as. go forth and push the envelope, but now is not the time, people in america are suffering because they have no job.
but i want to thank all of you teachers and their ensuing unions for the greatest test of union power and best use of outright stage drama, since the great deprssion. now, please... let's move on.
scott e.

 

[Intense]

Skin, the largest organ on the body, regenerates. I learned that from a teacher.

And the buttocks is the strongest muscle group in the body. And yours is protected and saved by cops and firemen.

i can't believe that you guys are still banging this around.
i never meant that any class or profession is better or more important than another. but i do think that teachers are better than they are being represented as. go forth and push the envelope, but now is not the time, people in america are suffering because they have no job.
but i want to thank all of you teachers and their ensuing unions for the greatest test of union power and best use of outright stage drama, since the great deprssion. now, please... let's move on.
scott e.

Why can't we all just get along!!! Sure thing Rodney.

 

[BrianH]

Is the liver more important than the heart?

Good point (I think)
They're all important, we just can't afford to pay them high wages and gold plated medical benefits anymore.

Yeah, being a public school teacher is really the path to riches.

I just read a news article that said a high school English teacher in Manhattan makes around $100,000 a year. I made $28,000 as a starting teacher. My wife has been teaching over five years and makes a little over $30,000. I no longer teach... You're right, I think cops, firegfighters, and teachers get paid like dogs. Makes me sick when sports stars get paid to play a kids' game

 

[Immanuel]

Whose more important:

The Army, Navy, Air Force, or Marines?

Coast Guard.

Immie

 

[Immanuel]

Fireman? Police? Teachers?

All three are very important, but when your house is burning to the ground and your baby (be it child, spouse/significant other, or pet) are trapped in the house or you're staring down the barrel of a .45 in the hands of a drug addict telling you to open that cash register or die, then the fire department and police department take on a whole different meaning that puts those departments to a different standard than other civil servants.

Immie