Are cops/firemen more important than teachers, part 2

[bucs90]

The easy answer to this is more of an essay question response, not a true/false or multiple choice.

There is no private option for cops. In education, we basically have 3 choices: Public Gov't school, private school, or home school. In the absence of a public school and public teachers, could a civilized society still function and educate it's young? Of course. Would it be harder for poor people to do it? Maybe. Maybe not.

And 2nd, anyone is capable of teaching their own kid. There isn't really much holding a person back from educating their own kid. Its all a mental task, of teaching, etc. And I respect those that do it well.

Police work, however, is not one in which there are options. We dont have the choice of opting out of being policed by our local, state, federal cops. We can't say "Mayberry Police Dept sucks, I instead choose to be policed by Podunk Police Dept". Not how it works. For countless reasons, and there is no private police option. It would be logistically impossible for a Blackwater-style private police organization to move into a town and police it. Why? Well, obviously, they'd be at odds with local cops. Next, who gets coverage? Do they only protect the people who pay? Do laws apply to a home that didn't pay? Would it be mandatory (taxed) from citizens to pay? If you are murdered, but didn't pay, does yours get investigated? It would never work. The ONLY option for law enforcement is the government option. Police-for-profit or policing for commission is the #1 way to attract massive corruption, as false charges and entrapment would run rampant for making profit, rather than the isolated incidents we see now of it.


So in the grand scheme, I say police funding is more important than teacher funding simply because there is no other option to accomplish the task of policing a community that the police department. We aren't Mexico. We can't have cartels or corporate security at odds with local cops, shooting it out in the streets when they don't agree.

In fact, I'm shocked that left wingers do not support school vouchers more, as that would lower the stress on public schools by having fewer students per teacher, AND allow poor people to make decisions on where they want to spend their money to send their kids, AND it would hold public schools accountable since they'd have to perform or lose students. Thats the quickest way to root out lazy teachers is competition.

 

[bodecea]

Somebody here has never heard of private security companies.

 

[gekaap]

All you've done is wax poetic about why you love cops. This idea of "more important" is fallacious. The complex question with an assumed answer is that one or the other is in fact more important. Truth is that both professions are equally important to society. Both professions have lazy and poorly performing employees, and both professions also have hard working employees who produce exemplary performance. There is no reason to single one or the other out.

 

[bucs90]

Somebody here has never heard of private security companies.

Once again, your lack of common sense makes me wonder how you got into Navy OCS?

Of course there are private security companies. But guess what they lack? ARREST POWERS. Thats right. They cannot make lawful arrests and criminal charges. Only government certified law enforcement officers, who took the same oath you did, can do that.

But you think they can replace cops? How so? For one, they don't have arrest powers, aren't sworn in under oath, and guess what else? I'll tell you. They are NOT bound by the 4th amendment. Since your common sense is obviously lacking, I'll tell you why thats big. ONLY government officials are bound by the 4th amendment. Which protects use agains illegal search and seizure. Which is why cops can't just stop and harrass a person for no reason at all. They must have probable cause or reasonable suspicion. A private secuirty guard would NOT be bound by the Constitution (thats bad) and would not have full arrest powers (also bad) and thus could not charge a person with a criminal offense or put them into a jail (also bad). All they could do it....well, call the cops.

Next, who would get this private security, in theory if all of the above were not true? Only those who pay? What if a person is robbed, but they didn't pay into the private system? Do we ignore them and only protect those who did? Do we charge them a fee AFTER we protect them? Then who in their right mind would pay prior? WHAT laws do they enforce? Do they have their own set of laws they protect us from, or do they only go by the ones the government has passed? If they only go by the ones the government passed, how can they enforce them without being sworn law enforcement officers, since they have NO arrest powers?

I could go on and on, but the idea of a private police force has been discussed, and is not possible. The fact that you think it would be possible is insane, I can't believe the Navy let you anywhere near the important buttons.

So you think it's good idea to have armed men who are private employees who are NOT bound by the Constitution, but also have no arrest powers and cannot place a person into a jail???? Yeah, that'll work

 

[bucs90]

All you've done is wax poetic about why you love cops. This idea of "more important" is fallacious. The complex question with an assumed answer is that one or the other is in fact more important. Truth is that both professions are equally important to society. Both professions have lazy and poorly performing employees, and both professions also have hard working employees who produce exemplary performance. There is no reason to single one or the other out.

I"m just saying one can also be done through the private sector, or at home by parents. The other simply cannot. Thus, when considering a bare bones budget, that must be taken into consideration.

 

[Toronado3800]

If our unfortunate children have good enough teachers then they may be productive enough in society where police officers are not needed to arrest them.

I vote for its a tie. Teachers are very important. Police officers and firemen should not have to risk their lives defending homes they can not afford.

 

[washamericom]

i never authorised "a part two". what the hell is going on here? hey, i work for a living!.. i'll expect residuals and a back end ip deal

 

[uscitizen]

We would have pretty poor cops and firemen without them being taught in schools now wouldn't we?

 

[jgarden]

The real question is not which group is the most important to society, the real question is which group(s) is most important when it comes to electing Walker into the governor's office!

If the teachers had supported Walker instead of the police/firefighters, does anyone doubt that their union would have been exempted, while the others would be banned from negotiating with the state government.

This whole episode is nothing more than a grand scale diversion to distract the public from questioning why the rich, those who already control most of the financial wealth in the country, are more deserving of a "tax cut?"

 

[Zander]

The internet will make 99% of all teachers unemployed within 20 years. We simply do not need to spend the $ billions we currently waste on facilities, transportation, administration, lunch programs etc..... It is all going away. Economic reality and technology will render the current model obsolete.

 

[uscitizen]

The internet will make 99% of all teachers unemployed within 20 years. We simply do not need to spend the $ billions we currently waste on facilities, transportation, administration, lunch programs etc..... It is all going away. Economic reality and technology will render the current model obsolete.

Yep we is gonna git dummer.

 

[gekaap]

Thus, when considering a bare bones budget, that must be taken into consideration.

And there is the fallacy. When considering a "bare bones" budget, you suggest that one must be valued moreso than the other in terms of society's need. But such an approach is flawed. Both are equally necessary in order to maintain the well being of our society. The fact that there are private schools, or that parents have the theoretical option to home school does not eliminate the need by society to have teachers, or the need for a public school system. Many, indeed the vast majority, of parents do not have a realistic option to home school their kids. Many families have two working parents. Many families have only one parent altogether. Some parents are simply not well suited to teach. Indeed, there are also some draw backs that make home schooling not a good route because of the student. Private school raises issues with people who cannot afford it. You have summarily brushed aside these issues as if they are marginal or meaningless. But that is unwarranted. The simple fact is that there will be major issues for the majority of people trying to educate their children if there were no public school system.

 

[uscitizen]

A bare bones budget?

LMAO virtually no state is doing that yet.

 

[Toronado3800]

Private schools.....Toronado's dictionary: where white children are sent to hide from the local public school in neighborhoods their parents have allowed to go to hell.

 

[JW Frogen]

The most important job in the world is security guards, we are the fat, unlawful line between civilization and anarchy.