Are Catholics Christian Part Deux.

[The ClayTaurus]

I won't hold my breath until you do just that.

Does that guarantee you will if I do?

 

[glockmail]

Does that guarantee you will if I do?

What a hateful thing to say. For what reason, because I disagree with you?

 

[The ClayTaurus]

What a hateful thing to say. For what reason, because I disagree with you?

My apologies; not trying to hateful.

What do we disagree about? That my friend isn't fooling God? What was your point anyways?

 

[glockmail]

.... What was your point anyways?

Figger it out on your own.

 

[The ClayTaurus]

Figger it out on your own.

I'm trying to figure out why you thought it was necessary to tell me my friend wasn't fooling the Lord when his intention was never to fool anyone. He didn't sign up for Catholocism; he just agreed not to intervene in his future family being raised Catholic (as was where the current discussion was at). He didn't even fool the priest; it's not like he lied about becoming Catholic or anything...

So again I ask: what was your point?

 

[5stringJeff]

The very word describes it: Protestant. Let's not get into the Reformation but essentially the protestants were denying the authority of the Church. There are many differences between the Catholic Church and the Protestants. In fact, the number of Protestant churches has expanded and multiplied due to so many different "takes" on what they believe and have moved further and further away from the Church. They establish new sects and believe in just about anything they choose.

So is that a "No, Protestants aren't Christians" or a "Yes, Protestants are Christians?"

 

[ScreamingEagle]

So is that a "No, Protestants aren't Christians" or a "Yes, Protestants are Christians?"

The short answer: Yes, Protestants are Christians.

The longer answer:

Today there are groups who prefer to be called Reformed or Evangelical instead of Protestant.

"The phrase "One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church" appears in the Nicene Creed and, in part, the Apostles' Creed ("the holy catholic church", sanctam ecclesiam catholicam). The phrase sets out the Four Marks (identifying signs) of the Christian Church — unity, holiness, universality, and apostolicity — and is based on the premise that all true Christians (irrespective of race, nationality or sex) form a single united group, the body of Christ (cf. 1 Cor 12:27), founded by the apostles and innately holy."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Holy_Catholic_and_Apostolic_Church

According to the Catholic Church:

The Church Is One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic
811
"This is the sole Church of Christ, which in the Creed we profess to be one, holy, catholic and apostolic."256 These four characteristics, inseparably linked with each other,257 indicate essential features of the Church and her mission. The Church does not possess them of herself; it is Christ who, through the Holy Spirit, makes his Church one, holy, catholic, and apostolic, and it is he who calls her to realize each of these qualities.

812
Only faith can recognize that the Church possesses these properties from her divine source. But their historical manifestations are signs that also speak clearly to human reason. As the First Vatican Council noted, the "Church herself, with her marvellous propagation, eminent holiness, and inexhaustible fruitfulness in everything good, her catholic unity and invincible stability, is a great and perpetual motive of credibility and an irrefutable witness of her divine mission."258

Wounds to unity
817
In fact, "in this one and only Church of God from its very beginnings there arose certain rifts, which the Apostle strongly censures as damnable. But in subsequent centuries much more serious dissensions appeared and large communities became separated from full communion with the Catholic Church—for which, often enough, men of both sides were to blame."269 The ruptures that wound the unity of Christ's Body—here we must distinguish heresy, apostasy, and schism270—do not occur without human sin:

Where there are sins, there are also divisions, schisms, heresies, and disputes. Where there is virtue, however, there also are harmony and unity, from which arise the one heart and one soul of all believers.271

818
"However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers . . . . All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church."272

819
"Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth"273 are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: "the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements."274 Christ's Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him,275 and are in themselves calls to "Catholic unity."276

Toward unity
820
"Christ bestowed unity on his Church from the beginning. This unity, we believe, subsists in the Catholic Church as something she can never lose, and we hope that it will continue to increase until the end of time."277 Christ always gives his Church the gift of unity, but the Church must always pray and work to maintain, reinforce, and perfect the unity that Christ wills for her. This is why Jesus himself prayed at the hour of his Passion, and does not cease praying to his Father, for the unity of his disciples: "That they may all be one. As you, Father, are in me and I am in you, may they also be one in us, . . . so that the world may know that you have sent me."278 The desire to recover the unity of all Christians is a gift of Christ and a call of the Holy Spirit.279

http://www.usccb.org/catechism/text/pt1sect2chpt3art9p3.htm

 

[Zebra]

I'm curious for everyone's input on this issue. It's one that I used to come across a lot back when I was a Catholic Apologist. Of course, I always defended Catholocism as a Christian denomination and I believe it still is. But how many of you feel differently or the same, etc.?

Now, I want to be very straight-forward: this is about the validity of Catholocism as a denomination in Christianity, nothing more. No talk about molestations, no bashing others here, and above all, stay on topic. We've seen the disaster that was the original thread. Let's try again, shall we?

of course catholics are christians

 

[Zebra]

I'm curious for everyone's input on this issue. It's one that I used to come across a lot back when I was a Catholic Apologist. Of course, I always defended Catholocism as a Christian denomination and I believe it still is. But how many of you feel differently or the same, etc.?

Now, I want to be very straight-forward: this is about the validity of Catholocism as a denomination in Christianity, nothing more. No talk about molestations, no bashing others here, and above all, stay on topic. We've seen the disaster that was the original thread. Let's try again, shall we?

lets have a poll!

 

[Zebra]

I'm curious for everyone's input on this issue. It's one that I used to come across a lot back when I was a Catholic Apologist. Of course, I always defended Catholocism as a Christian denomination and I believe it still is. But how many of you feel differently or the same, etc.?

Now, I want to be very straight-forward: this is about the validity of Catholocism as a denomination in Christianity, nothing more. No talk about molestations, no bashing others here, and above all, stay on topic. We've seen the disaster that was the original thread. Let's try again, shall we?

i have made a poll now ….

 

[Zebra]

I'm curious for everyone's input on this issue. It's one that I used to come across a lot back when I was a Catholic Apologist. Of course, I always defended Catholocism as a Christian denomination and I believe it still is. But how many of you feel differently or the same, etc.?

Now, I want to be very straight-forward: this is about the validity of Catholocism as a denomination in Christianity, nothing more. No talk about molestations, no bashing others here, and above all, stay on topic. We've seen the disaster that was the original thread. Let's try again, shall we?

what was that desaster?