Are Blacks Americans too?

[Lonestar_logic]

I don't ignore it as much as I find it absurdly insignificant in light of the number of blacks who were not slave owners in the USA, but instead were themselves slaves.

But I liken the number to white slaveholders in light of the number of white citizens of the USA: A very small proportion, and one for which I myself feel very little sympathy.

The fact that a very small percentage of whites owned slaves in light of the number of white people and a large percentage of blacks owned slaves in light of the number of black people is only insignificant if you refuse to take it into consideration.

Truth of the mattter is, blacks for the most part are either ignorant of their history or they, like you, simply dismiss historical facts.

You are misinformed if you believe that in the United States, "a large percentage of blacks owned slaves in light of the number of black people."

You probably should correct your own ignorance of history before questioning the ignorance of anyone else, much less an entire group.

You have more of an agenda of intolerance rather than one that makes any attempt at trying to understand anyone else's POV. Certainly, whites have no monoploy on this agenda.

I take it you ignored the link I provided that stated;

"The fact is large numbers of free Negroes owned black slaves; in fact, in numbers disproportionate to their representation in society at large. In 1860 only a small minority of whites owned slaves. According to the U.S. census report for that last year before the Civil War, there were nearly 27 million whites in the country. Some eight million of them lived in the slaveholding states."

My "agenda" is seeking the truth and educating those that are ignorant of historical facts.

Have you ever heard of Prince Whipple?

Or Wentworth Cheswell?

Or James Armistead?

Or Frederick Douglass?

Or Benjamin Banneker?

Or Lemuel Haynes?

Or William Ellison?

Or Antoine Dubuclet?

Or P.C. Richards?

Just to name a few.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

I call BULLSHIT!

There's isn't a black American alive today that has ever been enslaved. To say that the overwheleming number of blacks in prison is somehow related to slavery in any way is a stretch to say the least. You sound as if you believe every black Americans ancestors were former slaves forgetting the many that weren't and were in fact slave owners themselves.

The way I see it, most blacks refuse to look beyond the past they are in fact perpetual victims.

I think that's all anyone here has to read in order to place the appropriate amount of stock in what you're saying.

Spoken like a true victim.

 

[Grace]

Um. Native Americans were here before anyone. So who are the "real" americans?

 

[Big Black Dog]

Almost there...

I had an old girlfriend that used to say that a lot... She also said, "Don't stop!" a lot too. Most of the time she said it when we were traveling. Now and then she would say it when she was naked!

 

[Big Black Dog]

Did someone really just ask if Blacks are American to? Really!? From the history that I have learned many black folks have ancestors that were here since the 17th century. Black Americans played the most vital role in the history of this great country. And that was free labor, if any group is American it is Black folks.

If they are so damned American, why do they have to habitually use the term Afro-American?

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Did someone really just ask if Blacks are American to? Really!? From the history that I have learned many black folks have ancestors that were here since the 17th century. Black Americans played the most vital role in the history of this great country. And that was free labor, if any group is American it is Black folks.

Ah, another victim.


Nothing new there!

 

[Intense]

Merged.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Did someone really just ask if Blacks are American to? Really!? From the history that I have learned many black folks have ancestors that were here since the 17th century. Black Americans played the most vital role in the history of this great country. And that was free labor, if any group is American it is Black folks.

Ah, another victim.


Nothing new there!

Whoa! You got I think I'm a victim from that short statement, well them the depth of your thought is apparently lacking. I in fact despise the victimization attitude and often speak out against that type of thinking to the young men I coach and to everyone who will listen. The problem with the Black community is the victimization attitude and that trait is not one that I can say is a part of me. There is no victim here sir, just an honest individual with some insight into the history of this great country.

Yes I did and for the simple fact that you felt the need to defend how "American" black Americans are. Why not just view it as it is, which is just a feeble attempt by a racist to stir up emotions or as we say in Texas he's trying to "get your goat" of which he obviously succeeded in doing.

 

[Samson]

I take it you ignored the link I provided that stated;

"The fact is large numbers of free Negroes owned black slaves; in fact, in numbers disproportionate to their representation in society at large.

No I read that.

But, I don't believe everything I read, especially when it mysteriously omits the actual number in favor of the author's opinion that the number is "large."

According to your source

According to federal census reports, on June 1, 1860 there were nearly 4.5 million Negroes in the United States,

Your source only identified a little over 3,000 blacks owned slaves. The proportion of black slave owners is 3 of every 4,500 blacks in the USA during 1860. Um..... that's less than 0.1%

He then says

fewer than four million of them living in the southern slaveholding states. Of the blacks residing in the South, 261,988 were not slaves.

Which means 90% of blacks in the South were slaves in 1860.

90% is much more than 0.1% So I conclude that the fact that some blacks owned blacks is insignificant to the fact that most blacks were slaves.


And I agree with Robert M. Grooms that the proportion of American whites that owned slaves was also low at 1.4%

 

[Lonestar_logic]

I take it you ignored the link I provided that stated;

"The fact is large numbers of free Negroes owned black slaves; in fact, in numbers disproportionate to their representation in society at large.

No I read that.

But, I don't believe everything I read, especially when it mysteriously omits the actual number in favor of the author's opinion that the number is "large."

According to your source

According to federal census reports, on June 1, 1860 there were nearly 4.5 million Negroes in the United States,

Your source only identified a little over 3,000 blacks owned slaves. The proportion of black slave owners is 3 of every 4,500 blacks in the USA during 1860. Um..... that's less than 0.1%

He then says

fewer than four million of them living in the southern slaveholding states. Of the blacks residing in the South, 261,988 were not slaves.

Which means 90% of blacks in the South were slaves in 1860.

90% is much more than 0.1% So I conclude that the fact that some blacks owned blacks is insignificant to the fact that most blacks were slaves.


And I agree with Robert M. Grooms that the proportion of American whites that owned slaves was also low at 1.4%

Yet you disregard the large number of blacks that owned slaves. In New Orleans alone more than 3 thousand free blacks owned slaves which was 28 percent of the population at the time.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Whoa! You got I think I'm a victim from that short statement, well them the depth of your thought is apparently lacking. I in fact despise the victimization attitude and often speak out against that type of thinking to the young men I coach and to everyone who will listen. The problem with the Black community is the victimization attitude and that trait is not one that I can say is a part of me. There is no victim here sir, just an honest individual with some insight into the history of this great country.

Yes I did and for the simple fact that you felt the need to defend how "American" black Americans are. Why not just view it as it is, which is just a feeble attempt by a racist to stir up emotions or as we say in Texas he's trying to "get your goat" of which he obviously succeeded in doing.

I can honestly appreciate your reply, its just a little unnerving to see people that still think that way, he most definitely "got my goat". Thank you for you insight I will think of it the next time I am faced a question such as that one. I hope you will also take what I have said and will think about it, not all Black people think they are victims.

I'll concede there is an exception to every rule. In this case a pleasant one.

And with that, I must gracefully bow out of any further discussion due to the fact that I am about to make my way to Mexico to visit some friends for the weekend.

Adios!

 

[Samson]

I take it you ignored the link I provided that stated;

"The fact is large numbers of free Negroes owned black slaves; in fact, in numbers disproportionate to their representation in society at large.

No I read that.

But, I don't believe everything I read, especially when it mysteriously omits the actual number in favor of the author's opinion that the number is "large."

According to your source



Your source only identified a little over 3,000 blacks owned slaves. The proportion of black slave owners is 3 of every 4,500 blacks in the USA during 1860. Um..... that's less than 0.1%

He then says

fewer than four million of them living in the southern slaveholding states. Of the blacks residing in the South, 261,988 were not slaves.

Which means 90% of blacks in the South were slaves in 1860.

90% is much more than 0.1% So I conclude that the fact that some blacks owned blacks is insignificant to the fact that most blacks were slaves.


And I agree with Robert M. Grooms that the proportion of American whites that owned slaves was also low at 1.4%

Yet you disregard the large number of blacks that owned slaves. In New Orleans alone more than 3 thousand free blacks owned slaves which was 28 percent of the population at the time.

I don't consider 3000 of the 4.5 million living in the USA in 1860 a "large number."

 

[Lonestar_logic]

No I read that.

But, I don't believe everything I read, especially when it mysteriously omits the actual number in favor of the author's opinion that the number is "large."

According to your source



Your source only identified a little over 3,000 blacks owned slaves. The proportion of black slave owners is 3 of every 4,500 blacks in the USA during 1860. Um..... that's less than 0.1%

He then says



Which means 90% of blacks in the South were slaves in 1860.

90% is much more than 0.1% So I conclude that the fact that some blacks owned blacks is insignificant to the fact that most blacks were slaves.


And I agree with Robert M. Grooms that the proportion of American whites that owned slaves was also low at 1.4%

Yet you disregard the large number of blacks that owned slaves. In New Orleans alone more than 3 thousand free blacks owned slaves which was 28 percent of the population at the time.

I don't consider 3000 of the 4.5 million living in the USA in 1860 a "large number."

Reading comprehension.....is a bitch huh.

 

[Samson]

Yet you disregard the large number of blacks that owned slaves. In New Orleans alone more than 3 thousand free blacks owned slaves which was 28 percent of the population at the time.

I don't consider 3000 of the 4.5 million living in the USA in 1860 a "large number."

Reading comprehension.....is a bitch huh.

I wouldn't know.

New Orleans is in the USA, but New Orleans is not THE USA.

It was one of the very few places sited in the article as home to any black slaveholders.

Once again, it would probably be a good idea to work on your critical thinking skills before faulting anyone else.

 

[AquaAthena]

"Are Blacks Americans too?"

Anyone born in America is an American. So "yes."

 

[The Gadfly]

In answer to the original question, of course they are, and the majority of those I know are proud to be.

That doesn't mean that America has not had a troubled history with regard to race; we have, and it's foolish to pretend we haven't. This nation, like every other, was founded by flawed men who didn't always live up to the ideals they espoused. There's no good reason to shrink from that reality, and no good reason not to acknowledge that Blacks and Whites have had very different historical experiences of America, or that the residue of those experiences still exists today. There's nothing for anyone to feel guilty about; none of us, of any race, had any say in where we were born, or who our ancestors were, or what they did, or failed to do. There are few people alive today who had any responsibility for Jim Crow, much less slavery; however, that does not relieve any of us of responsibility for our own actions now.

I grew up in the segregated South, and I think it's fair to say that while we have come a long way from those dark times, there is still a lot to be done. There is a lingering problem of pain, mistrust, misunderstanding, and yes, even bigotry and hate, on both sides of the racial divide. This didn't all magically go away in 1968, and it's not going to magically go away now.

I have to say, from the perspective of a white, relatively conservative Southerner, that I've seen comments in this thread that trouble me. I agree with Samson; I don't hear posters like Casper, Marc, or Bass insisting that Whites feel guilty, or feel sorry for them; my sense of what they are saying is that no, everything is not OK now, there are still unresolved issues that need to be discussed, and problems that need to be addressed. I see no problem with that, no reason to be defensive about it, and certainly no reason to dismiss it. On the contrary, these are things we need to discuss, hopefully without accusations, recriminations, or listening for what we want or expect to hear, rather than what's actually being said. The plain truth is that none of us know what it's really like to walk an hour, much less a lifetime, in the other side's shoes, so it can't hurt any of us (on either side), to listen to the other with at least a modest attempt at empathy and understanding; I'm sorry to say I've seen precious little of either expressed in this thread.

Healing the very real wounds that still divide us along racial lines is not a zero-sum game, where someone has to lose for someone else to win. Like it or not, we're all in this together and we have a choice; bind up one another's wounds and heal together, or keep tearing open each other's wounds, and bleed to death together. In spite of their personal flaws, those who founded this country left us something; some worthwhile ideals, and the freedom to make that unfulfilled promise into reality. We've been trying with varying degrees of success to do that; a lot of good people have given their blood, sweat, tears, and even their very lives to that end. Now, it's our turn, and we ought to do the same; we owe them, and each other, that much.

 

[MarcATL]

In answer to the original question, of course they are, and the majority of those I know are proud to be.

That doesn't mean that America has not had a troubled history with regard to race; we have, and it's foolish to pretend we haven't. This nation, like every other, was founded by flawed men who didn't always live up to the ideals they espoused. There's no good reason to shrink from that reality, and no good reason not to acknowledge that Blacks and Whites have had very different historical experiences of America, or that the residue of those experiences still exists today. There's nothing for anyone to feel guilty about; none of us, of any race, had any say in where we were born, or who our ancestors were, or what they did, or failed to do. There are few people alive today who had any responsibility for Jim Crow, much less slavery; however, that does not relieve any of us of responsibility for our own actions now.

I grew up in the segregated South, and I think it's fair to say that while we have come a long way from those dark times, there is still a lot to be done. There is a lingering problem of pain, mistrust, misunderstanding, and yes, even bigotry and hate, on both sides of the racial divide. This didn't all magically go away in 1968, and it's not going to magically go away now.

I have to say, from the perspective of a white, relatively conservative Southerner, that I've seen comments in this thread that trouble me. I agree with Samson; I don't hear posters like Casper, Marc, or Bass insisting that Whites feel guilty, or feel sorry for them; my sense of what they are saying is that no, everything is not OK now, there are still unresolved issues that need to be discussed, and problems that need to be addressed. I see no problem with that, no reason to be defensive about it, and certainly no reason to dismiss it. On the contrary, these are things we need to discuss, hopefully without accusations, recriminations, or listening for what we want or expect to hear, rather than what's actually being said. The plain truth is that none of us know what it's really like to walk an hour, much less a lifetime, in the other side's shoes, so it can't hurt any of us (on either side), to listen to the other with at least a modest attempt at empathy and understanding; I'm sorry to say I've seen precious little of either expressed in this thread.

Healing the very real wounds that still divide us along racial lines is not a zero-sum game, where someone has to lose for someone else to win. Like it or not, we're all in this together and we have a choice; bind up one another's wounds and heal together, or keep tearing open each other's wounds, and bleed to death together. In spite of their personal flaws, those who founded this country left us something; some worthwhile ideals, and the freedom to make that unfulfilled promise into reality. We've been trying with varying degrees of success to do that; a lot of good people have given their blood, sweat, tears, and even their very lives to that end. Now, it's our turn, and we ought to do the same; we owe them, and each other, that much.

 

[Wingsofwind]

Forgetting what? That when Blacks were brought to America they were sold as slaves? Who doesn't know that? So how is it going to be forgotten? Why not start a new history? Whites and Blacks live together in harmony. I know I do and it isn't hard either!!

Why don't you research the start of the trans-atlantic slave trade and find out who sold who to whom. North America played a minor part in the slave trade, our ports sent out less than five percent of known voyages and absorbed less than four percent of all slaves carried out of Africa.

Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade

A "minor" atrocity is a still an atrocity.

Tell that to the Blacks who say Whites are evil because of slavery when their own are the ones that sold other Blacks to the Whites as slaves.

 

[Wingsofwind]

He helped write The Constitution. The document that just so happened to be used to end slavery. The document used to go to war with The South to end slavery....

Excuse me, but the Civil war was NOT about slavery. It was because of the Southern states seceding due to the Federal Government not abiding by the Constitution. Slavery was just an excuse for the North to gain popularity in order to win the war. The schools teach that the Civil war was due to slavery which is not true. It is just what helped the North to win. The Northerns are who wrote what was to be taught as history.

 

[Wingsofwind]

I don't mean to but in your guys conversation but is he supposed to forget about the past? I can tell alot of posters here really don't care about the bloody history of black people in this country but you might look at things alot differently if you had a family member who was effected by these injustices. I don't hold a grudge against whites but none of this should be casually tossed aside and forgotten.

Once a victim always a victim, huh?

You are a redneck racist XXXXXXX piece of shit so we have nothing to discuss.

What a racist thing to say, hmm, pot calling the kettle black?