Are All Democrats Socialists?

A PROPHETIC 1944 SPEECH

Norman Mattoon Thomas (November 20, 1884 - December 19, 1968), was a leading

American socialist, pacifist, and six-time presidential candidate for the

Socialist Party of America .

Norman Thomas said this in a 1944 speech:

"The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the

name of "liberalism," they will adopt every fragment of the socialist

program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without

knowing how it happened." He went on to say: "I no longer need to run as

a Presidential Candidate for the Socialist Party. The Democratic Party

has adopted our platform."

snopes.com: Norman Thomas

All democrats are not socialists nor are they all progressives.

All Republicans are not conservative constitutionalists nor are they all progressives.

most socialist progressives are democrats though.

And most ultra-conservatives and/or Tea Partiers are Republicans.

Logic 101.
 
People get something for nothing.

People are forced to buy a product offered by a private industry. Your whole argument breaks down there. That isn't socialism in any sense of the word.

No one forced you to buy squat last year.

This year you must buy.

That's NOT freedom, that's dictatorship. give it any name you want, but that is a fact.
 
Yes, or at least they have allowed their party to be co-opted by marxists.

Anyone who voted for Obamacare is a socialist.

It would be difficult to argue with the above, but it should include proviso that not all of said voters...those who agree with the precepts that President Obama represents, are clear about what, exactly what those precepts are.

This is one of the values of the back-and-forth on the USMB...

But I would say that the election of '08 was a giant step in the directon of 'creeping socialism.'

"Eisenhower entered the White House in 1953 determined to roll back Franklin D. Roosevelt’s New Deal liberalism, which he derided as “creeping socialism.” A Republican, Eisenhower wanted to reduce the size and influence of the federal government, give more power to state governments, and allow corporate profits to boost the national economy unfettered."
SparkNotes: The Cold War (1945?1963): Eisenhower at Home: 1952?1959


And it should be noted that today is the birthday of President Eisenhower.

BTW, while many of our Presidents served this country in the military, he was one of only two West Point grads to become President...do you know who the other one was?

PC, you might be interested in this, with Ike on our minds. (But it will probably just make you rush off to your huge library containing your immense repertoire of uber conservative opinions.)

Two Santa Clauses or How The Republican Party Has Conned America for Thirty Years | CommonDreams.org
As he wrote to his brother Edgar Eisenhower in a personal letter on November 8, 1954:

"[T]o attain any success it is quite clear that the Federal government cannot avoid or escape responsibilities which the mass of the people firmly believe should be undertaken by it. The political processes of our country are such that if a rule of reason is not applied in this effort, we will lose everything--even to a possible and drastic change in the Constitution. This is what I mean by my constant insistence upon 'moderation' in government.

"Should any political party attempt to abolish social security, unemployment insurance, and eliminate labor laws and farm programs, you would not hear of that party again in our political history. There is a tiny splinter group, of course, that believes you can do these things. Among them are H. L. Hunt [you possibly know his background], a few other Texas oil millionaires, and an occasional politician or business man from other areas. Their number is negligible and they are stupid."

Happy Birthday, President Eisenhower. I'm hoping you are still resting in peace.

1. "(But it will probably just make you rush off to your huge library containing your immense repertoire of uber conservative opinions.)"
Sounds like you are protecting yourself in advance...
but you have nothing to be worried about.

2. You misread me if you believe that I am an extreme capitalist, or one who would dissolve all of the social advances of this country.
Rather, I believe that Lord Acton was correct about power, and can show you the excesses of folks such as Wilson, FDR, and other staunch left-wingers.

a. I disagree with their views of the American people, and the debt we owe to the Founders.

b. As you have seen before, I am not shy about debating either of the above concepts.

3. As a general rule, if there is a balanced debate, as facilitated by an honest 'Fourth Estate,' the American people will do the right thing.

“The way to prevent… [errors] of the people is to give them full information of their affairs through the channel of the public papers.” Jefferson

4. The left, of course, is deathly afraid of the views of the people. This is why so many of their advances have come not at the ballot box, but in judicial fiat.
 
If you buy into the BS of wealth redistrabution, you are a socialist.

If you think it should be done b/c it's fair, you are a child that has not learned that life is not fair.

So what do you call wealth redistribution to the top?

There's no such thing, beyond the bail outs.

Unless this is a hate rant about rich people making money.

fyi; rich people own the company that built your comuper, bring energy to your home, built whatever you ride, made the cloths on your back, built hospitals, rail roads, medicine, medical insurance, on and on.

but lets get those evil people.
 
Yes, or at least they have allowed their party to be co-opted by marxists.

Anyone who voted for Obamacare is a socialist.

Explain how the healthcare bill is socialist?

And you might want to include your belief that our current military..is not.

People get something for nothing. Those that don't want to use it, must still be taxed for it. If you don't have insruance or not enough, you are fined, if you don't pay your fines, they are taken from your tax return, if your tax return is not enough, a bench warrent will be issued, if your debt gets to high, you will be arrested.

You're right, that's more communism than socialism.

Except it's not. There is a private business element. What we have now..because the healthcare bill in not implemented..is a system where people either become bankrupt from health crisis..because they are booted from health care they paid for..or they go to emergency rooms to get helped..well after, perhaps, anything meaningful can be done.

The military is a volunteer force. They get pay and benefits for serving our country.

If you think the military is socialist, you are totally fucked in the head. Hoping you were just being an ass for kicks.

Nope.

What would have been a volunteer force..is all militia. After the revolution..the continental army was disbanded..and men were required to carry guns. This was in case the need arose..Congress could assemble them into land defenses. The Navy is the only permanent fixture prescribed by the Constitution.

The military is socialist. It's as socialist as one can get. And it's not volunteer. I don't volunteer my taxes to pay for missile defense.

And a crap load of other wasteful programs. Some of which are kept in completely in the dark.
 
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The Constitution gave Congress the power to raise and support a national army, and to organize “the Militia.” This is because an army didn’t naturally exist, while “the Militia” only had to be organized: it always existed. (See enumerated powers in Article 1,Section 8.)

A budget for which..needs to be put to a vote..every 2 years.

The Navy however, has no such restriction. It is provisioned by the US Constitution.
 
People get something for nothing.

People are forced to buy a product offered by a private industry. Your whole argument breaks down there. That isn't socialism in any sense of the word.

No one forced you to buy squat last year.

This year you must buy.

That's NOT freedom, that's dictatorship. give it any name you want, but that is a fact.

It's also not socialism.

Lots of folks try to paint Obamacare as socialist. Those folks are stupid. There's just no other word for it. Being forced to buy a product from private industry is a lot of things, but it sure isn't Socialist. Passing a law that will move costs from employers down to the employees is a lot of things, but it sure isn't Socialist.

I'm not supporter of Obamacare. I think its as big a farce as the Medicare prescription drug plan. But I have precious little patience for people that toss around sound bites like "SOCIALISM!" with no clue what that actually means. Such folks are using their mouths without the benefit of using their brains.
 
Explain how the healthcare bill is socialist?

And you might want to include your belief that our current military..is not.

People get something for nothing. Those that don't want to use it, must still be taxed for it. If you don't have insruance or not enough, you are fined, if you don't pay your fines, they are taken from your tax return, if your tax return is not enough, a bench warrent will be issued, if your debt gets to high, you will be arrested.

You're right, that's more communism than socialism.

Except it's not. There is a private business element. What we have now..because the healthcare bill in not implemented..is a system where people either become bankrupt from health crisis..because they are booted from health care they paid for..or they go to emergency rooms to get helped..well after, perhaps, anything meaningful can be done.

The military is a volunteer force. They get pay and benefits for serving our country.

If you think the military is socialist, you are totally fucked in the head. Hoping you were just being an ass for kicks.

Nope.

What would have been a volunteer force..is all militia. After the revolution..the continental army was disbanded..and men were required to carry guns. This was in case the need arose..Congress could assemble them into land defenses. The Navy is the only permanent fixture prescribed by the Constitution.

The military is socialist. It's as socialist as one can get. And it's not volunteer. I don't volunteer my taxes to pay for missile defense.

And a crap load of other wasteful programs. Some of which are kept in completely in the dark.

You can't direct your taxes to pay for, or not pay for, anything. That doesn't make it socialist.

The national defense is not socialist. It's not intended to redistribute defense from people who can afford to defend themselves to people who cannot afford it, like health care, housing, or foodstamps.
 
People are forced to buy a product offered by a private industry. Your whole argument breaks down there. That isn't socialism in any sense of the word.

No one forced you to buy squat last year.

This year you must buy.

That's NOT freedom, that's dictatorship. give it any name you want, but that is a fact.

It's also not socialism.

Lots of folks try to paint Obamacare as socialist. Those folks are stupid. There's just no other word for it. Being forced to buy a product from private industry is a lot of things, but it sure isn't Socialist. Passing a law that will move costs from employers down to the employees is a lot of things, but it sure isn't Socialist.

I'm not supporter of Obamacare. I think its as big a farce as the Medicare prescription drug plan. But I have precious little patience for people that toss around sound bites like "SOCIALISM!" with no clue what that actually means. Such folks are using their mouths without the benefit of using their brains.

Actually, all of its sycophants will say it won't work if it's not redistributive...which is socialist.
 
No one forced you to buy squat last year.

This year you must buy.

That's NOT freedom, that's dictatorship. give it any name you want, but that is a fact.

It's also not socialism.

Lots of folks try to paint Obamacare as socialist. Those folks are stupid. There's just no other word for it. Being forced to buy a product from private industry is a lot of things, but it sure isn't Socialist. Passing a law that will move costs from employers down to the employees is a lot of things, but it sure isn't Socialist.

I'm not supporter of Obamacare. I think its as big a farce as the Medicare prescription drug plan. But I have precious little patience for people that toss around sound bites like "SOCIALISM!" with no clue what that actually means. Such folks are using their mouths without the benefit of using their brains.

Actually, all of its sycophants will say it won't work if it's not redistributive...which is socialist.

Never seen a person say that who isn't a Con trying to stir up fear. And no, it's not Socialist when you're moving the cost of Healthcare from employers to employees and forcing citizens to buy insurance from private insurers. Continuing to use the word "SOCIALISM!" won't make what is essenitally a pro-Big Business, corrupt, outright idiotic law any more "SOCIALIST!"

And for the record, its just not going to work anyways. There were only ever two solutions to the Health Insurance problem:

1. Do nothing. Continue to "cover" those that can't afford care with higher insurance premiums for those with coverage when those without default on their bill (The Pre-Obama Care plan).

2. Institute Federally run Nation Health Care.

Obama choose idiotic solution 3, Pass Romneycare.
 
Well that depend what how you define a socialist. They made the people in the cities pay more for a phone service so that service could be extended to rural areas that couldn't afford to have wires run. Was that a socialist program? How about the RR system and the power of eminant domain. Or the Interstate Highway systems. We're all socicalist in one way or another....
 
Socialism and capitalism. Tools to use for desired social ends. Not to be objects of worship, any more than a skill saw or framing square.

Our National Parks are the finest example of a wonderful use of socialism. The best and most unusual of our nation preserved for the use of all citizens of this nation instead of just for the ownership of the monied class or aristocracy.

Health Care, by the successful examples in other nations, should be socialized here. We pay twice as much for an inferior product that does not even cover all of our citizens.
 
More socialism is inevitable as society advances and populations grow. The United States is one of least socialist countries on the planet and will probably remain so. I'm sure some things will be socialized. We will eventually have a single payer healthcare system. Currently nearly half of the healthcare cost in America are paid for by the government and that will increase.

It seems very popular to label everything the government does as socialist. I think Americans need to understand the difference between regulated capitalism and socialism.
 
More socialism is inevitable as society advances and populations grow. The United States is one of least socialist countries on the planet and will probably remain so. I'm sure some things will be socialized. We will eventually have a single payer healthcare system. Currently nearly half of the healthcare cost in America are paid for by the government and that will increase.

It seems very popular to label everything the government does as socialist. I think Americans need to understand the difference between regulated capitalism and socialism.

I too think a Fed. Run system is inevitable when it comes to Health Insurance. Businesses simply do not want to be saddle with either healthcare costs or retirement costs. They'll eventually hoist that off on the government just like they've done in Europe.

What's important to understand there is that it will be business not the citizens, and definitely not the government that will lead that charge. The employees simply want what they were promised, and what they worked for. A nice retirement package and a decent insurance plan. It's the businesses that are frequently finding they can't deliver on their promises, and want the Government to pick up the tab.
 
More socialism is inevitable as society advances and populations grow. The United States is one of least socialist countries on the planet and will probably remain so. I'm sure some things will be socialized. We will eventually have a single payer healthcare system. Currently nearly half of the healthcare cost in America are paid for by the government and that will increase.

It seems very popular to label everything the government does as socialist. I think Americans need to understand the difference between regulated capitalism and socialism.

I too think a Fed. Run system is inevitable when it comes to Health Insurance. Businesses simply do not want to be saddle with either healthcare costs or retirement costs. They'll eventually hoist that off on the government just like they've done in Europe.

No it's not. Only when they are saddled with mandates, as McDonald's was. The appropriate relief was to waive the mandates, but that exposes the fraud of a government fist running health care.

The notion that government can give everyone all the health care they want at a price they will pay is a scam.
 
No it's not.

We'll see. There's a reason its done that way in Europe. If you want to avoid that system, its best to understand how it came to be. It isn't citizens and workers that typically end up pushing the government into guaranteeing pensions and healthcare. It's nearly always business.
 

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