Are All Democrats Socialists?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by AquaAthena, Oct 14, 2010.

  1. AquaAthena
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    AquaAthena INTJ/ INFJ

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    A PROPHETIC 1944 SPEECH

    Norman Mattoon Thomas (November 20, 1884 - December 19, 1968), was a leading

    American socialist, pacifist, and six-time presidential candidate for the

    Socialist Party of America .

    Norman Thomas said this in a 1944 speech:

    "The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the

    name of "liberalism," they will adopt every fragment of the socialist

    program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without

    knowing how it happened." He went on to say: "I no longer need to run as

    a Presidential Candidate for the Socialist Party. The Democratic Party

    has adopted our platform."

    http://www.snopes.com/politics/quotes/socialism.asp
     
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  2. topspin
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    topspin BANNED

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    no just like all republicans aren't war mongering baby killers

    Look it up
    the economy and stock market do better under dem presidents

    but, but, but
     
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  3. Revere
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    Yes, or at least they have allowed their party to be co-opted by marxists.

    Anyone who voted for Obamacare is a socialist.
     
  4. MaggieMae
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    MaggieMae Reality bits

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    People who make that assumption are clueless.

    October 8, 2010 4:20 PM
    Is Obama a Socialist? A Socialist Weighs in
    Posted by Brian Montopoli 175 comments .
    Share 18710diggsdigg (Credit: AP)

    According to a Democracy Corps poll released over the summer, a majority of likely voters believe that the word "socialist" is a fair way to describe President Obama. The word is often used by the president's harshest critics, and not just those on the fringe: In March, Republican National Committee chair Michael Steele complained that the president was pushing a "radical socialist health care 'reform' experiment." You can buy an "Obama is a socialist" bumper sticker.

    So what does an actual socialist think about the idea that Mr. Obama deserves the label?

    Not much.

    Billy Wharton, the 41-year-old co-chair of the Socialist Party USA, said in an interview that the president's agenda is nothing like the vision that his group espouses for the country.

    Start with employment: As the government announced today, the unemployment rate currently stands at 9.6 percent. Under socialism, he said, everyone has a right to a job - which means that the unemployment rate would, essentially, be zero. If the private sector didn't provide enough jobs, Wharton said, a socialist government would create jobs to fill the gap.

    Wharton pointed to the bank bailout - passed under President Bush but supported by President Obama - as an example of where socialist and Obama agendas differ. "We would have used that money to create a national jobs system," he said, calling for a "system of cooperatives that would be run by workers themselves."

    Then there's health care: Wharton's Socialist Party supports the idea of a single-payer health care system in which the health care companies would be "abolished." The bill passed under the Obama administration didn't even come close to such a system - even the "public option," the government-run health care plan, did not make it into the bill. The bill that passed actually ended up creating more customers for health care companies thanks to the individual mandate.

    "We really see the corporation as being the most undemocratic influence in capitalist society," said Wharton, who believes "regular people" should be able to decide what gets produced and consumed.

    Wharton, who penned a Washington Post op-ed on this topic last year, said the use of the word socialist by opponents of the president "taps into a long tradition of paranoia in American politics," most notably in the 1950s. He complains of a "hysterical tone of a farcical McCarthyism" in the current debate over the president.

    He also suggested the use of the word as an insult has become less effective as more Americans have grown up in a post-Cold War era.

    "People under the age of 25 weren't educated in a Cold War period," he said. "So when they hear the word socialism, they don't automatically draw a negative conclusion."

    As for the president, Wharton says socialists see him as a "hedge-fund Democrat" - someone unwilling to take what they see as necessary steps like nationalizing banks or keeping public money from flowing to private corporations. Instead of supporting programs like Social Security and Medicare, he says, Mr. Obama is doing the bidding of the wealthiest Americans.

    And for those still insist the president is his ideological brother?

    "I'd invite them to ask a real socialist what a socialist is," says Wharton.

    Is Obama a Socialist? A Socialist Weighs in - Political Hotsheet - CBS News
     
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  5. Dr.Traveler
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    Short answer: No.

    Longer Answer: No. The Democratic party is made up of a lot of different groups with lots of interests. Saying the whole of the DNC is socialist is just as idiotic as saying the whole of the GOP is Christian. Or that the whole of the RNC is big business elites. It just doesn't work.

    Attempting to characaterize political opponents as some single group is as moronic as it is old.

    A lot of this has been brought up in relation to Obamacare, which is about as far away from Socialism as it is possible to get. IF it was a socialist policy, it'd have shut down the private insurers in favor of a government run system. It didn't. Instead it REQUIRED everyone to buy into privately owned insurance companies. It's a huge windfall for the insurance industry at the cost of the little guy. It's as blatantly pro-Big Business as possible.

    A lot of folks tossing around the words socialism need to learn what it actually means.
     
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  6. PoliticalChic
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    PoliticalChic Diamond Member

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    It would be difficult to argue with the above, but it should include proviso that not all of said voters...those who agree with the precepts that President Obama represents, are clear about what, exactly what those precepts are.

    This is one of the values of the back-and-forth on the USMB...

    But I would say that the election of '08 was a giant step in the directon of 'creeping socialism.'

    "Eisenhower entered the White House in 1953 determined to roll back Franklin D. Roosevelt’s New Deal liberalism, which he derided as “creeping socialism.” A Republican, Eisenhower wanted to reduce the size and influence of the federal government, give more power to state governments, and allow corporate profits to boost the national economy unfettered."
    SparkNotes: The Cold War (1945?1963): Eisenhower at Home: 1952?1959


    And it should be noted that today is the birthday of President Eisenhower.

    BTW, while many of our Presidents served this country in the military, he was one of only two West Point grads to become President...do you know who the other one was?
     
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  7. Dr.Traveler
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    Grant.

    And Obamacare isn't a step towards socialism. How is a program that forces people to buy a product from a private industry socialism? How is a program whose natural consequence is to transfer health insurance costs from employers to employees socialism? If anything its an example of how efficently Big Business controls government.
     
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  8. CrusaderFrank
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    Not all are Socialists some are bearded Marxists
     
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  9. Two Thumbs
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    If you buy into the BS of wealth redistrabution, you are a socialist.

    If you think it should be done b/c it's fair, you are a child that has not learned that life is not fair.
     
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  10. PoliticalChic
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    Consider the non-Marxist socialist, Eugene Victor Debs...

    1. E.V.Debs was the Socialist candidate, in 1912, and Debs received the largest share of the popular vote ever by a Socialist candidate, and had later been convicted of violating Wilson’s Espionage and Sedition Acts. The jury found Debs guilty. Debs said to the jury: “while there is a lower class, I am in it, while there is a criminal element, I am of it, and where there is a soul in prison, I am not free.” Nick Salvatore, “Eugene V. Debs: Citizen and Socialist,” p. 295. Sentenced to ten years in prison.

    2. For Debs, the Socialist, America needed government control of basic industries and a broad-based trade unionism. Chace,"1912," p.8 As a radical, Debs became the living symbol of discontent with the oppressive order of unrestrained capitalism.

    3. He persuaded listeners that he was no doctrinaire Marxist, but one who understood the problems of working men and women in the new world of industrial capitalism. He had them envision a transcendent and fairer social order based on the brotherhood of man.

    4. Early on he was quite properly seen not as a radical but as a decent Democratic politician and labor leader. In 1884, he wrote an editorial for the Brotherhood of Locomotive Fireman, stating that the union “is not to antagonize capital. Strikes do that; hence we oppose strikes as the remedy for the ills of which labor complains.” Nick Salvatore, “Eugene V. Debs: Citizen and Socialist,” p.49.

    a. Debs still believed in the overthrow of the competitive capitalist system was by way of the ballot box. The ballot box could give “to our civilization its crowning glory- the cooperative commonwealth,” but if not used wisely, it will bring bondage instead of freedom.

    5. Emerging as a socialist, Debs embraced a utopian scheme for a cooperative colony where men and women would work together in harmony with industry. He named his new organization Social Democracy of America. But many Socialists would not give up the idea of grounding socialism in class struggle, rather than Debs’ classless new Jerusalem.

    6. The Socialist platform in 1912 called for collective ownership of all means of transportation and communication and of all large-scale industry; collective ownership of land; collective ownership of the banking and currency system. And shorter working hours for workers; adequate insurance and safety rules; and the end of child labor. It favored woman’s suffrage and proposed to abolish the Senate and deny the president the veto over legislation. The Supreme Court could no longer declare laws unconstitutional, and eliminate federal district and circuit courts. Chace, “1912,” p. 186

    A good man with a good heart, Debs believed in a perfectible human being living in harmony with others of like kind, in a utopia here on Earth.

    It is the basis of all totalist views, communism, nazism, progressivism, liberalism, etc.

    And it is the fundemental disagreement we on the right have with same.
     
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