Arctic sea ice melting toward record

[ScienceRocks]

The only constant is change.

And right now, due to mankind's actions, the world is constantly changing into a warmer world with less ice at the poles and in the glaciers. So what's your point? Or perhaps you just like pontificating vague, meaningless generalities and pretending that it is an intelligent comment.

Rather arrogant to believe that it is only mankind actions don't you think?

Yeah, the enso(el nino/la nina) has a very pronounce effect on global temperatures of at least .1 to .5c of shift. One of the main reasons 1998 was as warm as it was is because of the strongest el nino in history. Also when you consider that solar output from the solar cycles can have effects on the climate of upwards of .1-.2c within only a few years you can't possible say that man kind is the only factor. Like I said above to Dr.Grump that between 1940-2000 had the highest solar output in 2000 years, or since the days of the mid evil warm period.

Also there are many other factors that control sea ice and global temperatures.

 

[ScienceRocks]

The only constant is change.

In that is what climate does.

 

[RollingThunder]

The only constant is change.

And right now, due to mankind's actions, the world is constantly changing into a warmer world with less ice at the poles and in the glaciers. So what's your point? Or perhaps you just like pontificating vague, meaningless generalities and pretending that it is an intelligent comment.

Rather arrogant to believe that it is only mankind actions don't you think?

The problem for you is that that a 'straw-man' argument. Neither I nor any of the other realists on this forum nor the world's climate scientists have ever claimed that mankind's actions are the only factors affecting the climate. What is being pointed out, on the basis of decades of scientific research and mountains of data and evidence, is that it is mankind's carbon emissions and our deforestation practices that are the main driving forces behind the current abrupt warming which is being overlaid over the natural slow long term climate trends, which would have naturally been moving the world in the direction of a new ice age several thousand years down the line. Now we're headed towards a much warmer world, possibly as warm as it was many tens of millions of years ago during the age of the dinosaurs. This would not be a good thing for the human race.

 

[syrenn]

And right now, due to mankind's actions, the world is constantly changing into a warmer world with less ice at the poles and in the glaciers. So what's your point? Or perhaps you just like pontificating vague, meaningless generalities and pretending that it is an intelligent comment.

Rather arrogant to believe that it is only mankind actions don't you think?

The problem for you is that that a 'straw-man' argument. Neither I nor any of the other realists on this forum nor the world's climate scientists have ever claimed that mankind's actions are the only factors affecting the climate. What is being pointed out, on the basis of decades of scientific research and mountains of data and evidence, is that it is mankind's carbon emissions and our deforestation practices that are the main driving forces behind the current abrupt warming which is being overlaid over the natural slow long term climate trends, which would have naturally been moving the world in the direction of a new ice age several thousand years down the line. Now we're headed towards a much warmer world, possibly as warm as it was many tens of millions of years ago during the age of the dinosaurs. This would not be a good thing for the human race.

And again, have we never in the earths history had abrupt climate change before this warming? No ice ages before this one? No melting s? The earth moves from hot to cold and cold to hot? It is arrogant to believe that mankind is the ONLY reason for climate change.

 

[Activist Too]

NOAA Scientists could have helped us to get into general knowlege, much of this years ago, except they were being gagged, their work censored and repressed, and careers threatened for even thinking about publishing their ongoing findings! Take a look at the work being done in the arctic by NOAA climate scientists.

 

[ScienceRocks]

NOAA Scientists could have helped us to get into general knowlege, much of this years ago, except they were being gagged, their work censored and repressed, and careers threatened for even thinking about publishing their ongoing findings! Take a look at the work being done in the arctic by NOAA climate scientists.

I think all data should be layed on the table. But it should not be fudged or bought off either for political reasons. Science should be about the data and facts. Anyways, if we're seeing a run away warming than science will prove it, but as of this moment I'm not convinced.

 

[RollingThunder]

Rather arrogant to believe that it is only mankind actions don't you think?

The problem for you is that that a 'straw-man' argument. Neither I nor any of the other realists on this forum nor the world's climate scientists have ever claimed that mankind's actions are the only factors affecting the climate. What is being pointed out, on the basis of decades of scientific research and mountains of data and evidence, is that it is mankind's carbon emissions and our deforestation practices that are the main driving forces behind the current abrupt warming which is being overlaid over the natural slow long term climate trends, which would have naturally been moving the world in the direction of a new ice age several thousand years down the line. Now we're headed towards a much warmer world, possibly as warm as it was many tens of millions of years ago during the age of the dinosaurs. This would not be a good thing for the human race.

And again, have we never in the earths history had abrupt climate change before this warming?

Yes we have. Scientists have identified the various factors, like continental drift, volcanoes, ocean currents, the earth's tilt, and comets and meteorites, that have produced such changes. None of those other factors can be seen to be in play this time.

Many of these previous abrupt climate changes that have occurred naturally in Earth's history have been the triggers for mass extinctions. Did you know that? Some of these abrupt climate changes that caused some of the biggest mass extinctions seem to be linked to massive CO2 releases that raised world temperatures which then in turn triggered large scale releases of methane hydrates on the ocean floor which really warmed things up. The excess CO2, besides warming the Earth suddenly, also acidified the oceans and killed most life there. Scientists are observing the beginnings of that process of acidification now in our oceans.

You really don't seem to understand that just because climate changes can be natural doesn't mean that they have to be natural. We have collectively raised the CO2 levels in the Earth's atmosphere by about 40% in the last two centuries, mostly in the last century and with the rate of emissions rising yearly. CO2 is a powerful greenhouse gas and that is an established scientific fact. The Earth is currently warming up rapidly due the excess CO2 absorbing more of the outgoing infrared radiation from the Earth's surface after it has been heated by the sun. What is hard for you to understand about that?

 

[Chris]

Rather arrogant to believe that it is only mankind actions don't you think?

The problem for you is that that a 'straw-man' argument. Neither I nor any of the other realists on this forum nor the world's climate scientists have ever claimed that mankind's actions are the only factors affecting the climate. What is being pointed out, on the basis of decades of scientific research and mountains of data and evidence, is that it is mankind's carbon emissions and our deforestation practices that are the main driving forces behind the current abrupt warming which is being overlaid over the natural slow long term climate trends, which would have naturally been moving the world in the direction of a new ice age several thousand years down the line. Now we're headed towards a much warmer world, possibly as warm as it was many tens of millions of years ago during the age of the dinosaurs. This would not be a good thing for the human race.

And again, have we never in the earths history had abrupt climate change before this warming? No ice ages before this one? No melting s? The earth moves from hot to cold and cold to hot? It is arrogant to believe that mankind is the ONLY reason for climate change.

No one is saying that.

 

[Chris]

And right now, due to mankind's actions, the world is constantly changing into a warmer world with less ice at the poles and in the glaciers. So what's your point? Or perhaps you just like pontificating vague, meaningless generalities and pretending that it is an intelligent comment.

Rather arrogant to believe that it is only mankind actions don't you think?

Yeah, the enso(el nino/la nina) has a very pronounce effect on global temperatures of at least .1 to .5c of shift. One of the main reasons 1998 was as warm as it was is because of the strongest el nino in history. Also when you consider that solar output from the solar cycles can have effects on the climate of upwards of .1-.2c within only a few years you can't possible say that man kind is the only factor. Like I said above to Dr.Grump that between 1940-2000 had the highest solar output in 2000 years, or since the days of the mid evil warm period.

Also there are many other factors that control sea ice and global temperatures.

Such as the Sun.

But the Sun is at its lowest level of activity in 80 years, and yet the ice continues to melt.

Why?

 

[Old Rocks]

Rather arrogant to believe that it is only mankind actions don't you think?

The problem for you is that that a 'straw-man' argument. Neither I nor any of the other realists on this forum nor the world's climate scientists have ever claimed that mankind's actions are the only factors affecting the climate. What is being pointed out, on the basis of decades of scientific research and mountains of data and evidence, is that it is mankind's carbon emissions and our deforestation practices that are the main driving forces behind the current abrupt warming which is being overlaid over the natural slow long term climate trends, which would have naturally been moving the world in the direction of a new ice age several thousand years down the line. Now we're headed towards a much warmer world, possibly as warm as it was many tens of millions of years ago during the age of the dinosaurs. This would not be a good thing for the human race.

And again, have we never in the earths history had abrupt climate change before this warming? No ice ages before this one? No melting s? The earth moves from hot to cold and cold to hot? It is arrogant to believe that mankind is the ONLY reason for climate change.

Are you working at being unintelligent? Yes, we have had adrupt climate changes before in the earth's history. In fact, the most of them have been because of very rapid increases in GHGs, the usual suspect being Trapp Volcanics. Now we have a rapid increase in the GHGs, caused by man's use of fossil fuels. Do you think that the physics of the atmosphere are going to change, merely because we are the cause of the increase in the GHGs in the atmosphere?

 

[Big Fitz]

More dishonesty by Si. No one ever claimed that CO2 was the only variable. In fact, it has been pointed out many times by the honest posters here that the TSI, NAO, and La Nina, El Nino oscilations all contribute to the variability of the weather.

Oh how quickly they forget their own mantra. You've been screaming till blood spattered us from your shredded vocal chords how we have to stop CO2. Nothing else would do. You typed your little fingers to skeletal nubs with fake science and bullshit activist links 'proving' that CO2 was the holy grail of climate change.

Now... not so much? buh?

Do you have a SHRED of intellectual integrity? Did you ever?

Wow, you really are a major retard, bigfistedass.

Just because there are other factors that affect our climate does not invalidate the fact that mankind's carbon emissions are the major contributing factor in the current abrupt global warming/climate changes.

You can solve the whole thing by bringing enough evidence to prove conclusively the following.

1. Carbon Dioxide is the SOLE factor in global climate change or include all it's related factors.

2. Prove that these factors are being altered specifically by mankind's activity ONLY.

3. Show that there is conclusive data this is a bad thing for the planet and ALL living things on it.

4. Prove that you are being damaged directly by this activity.

Do those four things and I'll be with you. Should be simple. BUT, since there is a problem with all evidence collected pre-2009, you will have to redo your work eliminating everything done in previously tainted studies.

Have fun. Till then, all you got is "Ding! Fries are done."

 

[Old Rocks]

NOAA Scientists could have helped us to get into general knowlege, much of this years ago, except they were being gagged, their work censored and repressed, and careers threatened for even thinking about publishing their ongoing findings! Take a look at the work being done in the arctic by NOAA climate scientists.

I think all data should be layed on the table. But it should not be fudged or bought off either for political reasons. Science should be about the data and facts. Anyways, if we're seeing a run away warming than science will prove it, but as of this moment I'm not convinced.

We are not seeing a runaway warming. No one has said that that is the case. What is being said, is that could happen, given past geologic history. And we just don't know where that tipping point is at.

The "fudged data" is the same arguement that the tobacco industry used against the Surgeon General's finding concerning the relationship between tobacco and certain diseases. In fact, those denying the validity are even using the same scientific whores to make this arguement against the data gathered by thousands of scientists from around the world.

 

[Big Fitz]

The only constant is change.

And right now, due to mankind's actions, the world is constantly changing into a warmer world with less ice at the poles and in the glaciers. So what's your point? Or perhaps you just like pontificating vague, meaningless generalities and pretending that it is an intelligent comment.

Debunking patent stupidity in four words.

"Where are the Dinosaurs?"

Was that climate change due to man? By your logic only man changes climate. After all, it was MUCH hotter when Dinosaurs walked the Earth, wasn't it?

Donde estas los Dinosaurs, Pedro?

 

[SpidermanTuba]

By your logic only man changes climate.

No, that's your logic.

 

[Old Rocks]

Oh how quickly they forget their own mantra. You've been screaming till blood spattered us from your shredded vocal chords how we have to stop CO2. Nothing else would do. You typed your little fingers to skeletal nubs with fake science and bullshit activist links 'proving' that CO2 was the holy grail of climate change.

Now... not so much? buh?

Do you have a SHRED of intellectual integrity? Did you ever?

Wow, you really are a major retard, bigfistedass.

Just because there are other factors that affect our climate does not invalidate the fact that mankind's carbon emissions are the major contributing factor in the current abrupt global warming/climate changes.

You can solve the whole thing by bringing enough evidence to prove conclusively the following.

1. Carbon Dioxide is the SOLE factor in global climate change or include all it's related factors.

You can kiss my ass, as no one here has said any such damned thing. You are being completely dishonest, throwing up a strawman of an arguement.

2. Prove that these factors are being altered specifically by mankind's activity ONLY.

Once again, kiss my ass, liar!

3. Show that there is conclusive data this is a bad thing for the planet and ALL living things on it.

Really stupid thing to say. Of course, the cockroaches will do better. They don't like cold climates.

4. Prove that you are being damaged directly by this activity.

When the food prices start soaring as the crops are affected by the change, all those unprepared will be damaged. Untill then the damage in the gulf is quite adaquete to demostrate what kind of damage the fossil fuel industry is doing to all of us.

Do those four things and I'll be with you. Should be simple. BUT, since there is a problem with all evidence collected pre-2009, you will have to redo your work eliminating everything done in previously tainted studies.

Have fun.

Hav e fun yourself, you lying crock. You set up a series of strawmen, and then hoot and holler in ignorant derision. Your basic dishonesty is there for all to see.

 

[ScienceRocks]

Rather arrogant to believe that it is only mankind actions don't you think?

Yeah, the enso(el nino/la nina) has a very pronounce effect on global temperatures of at least .1 to .5c of shift. One of the main reasons 1998 was as warm as it was is because of the strongest el nino in history. Also when you consider that solar output from the solar cycles can have effects on the climate of upwards of .1-.2c within only a few years you can't possible say that man kind is the only factor. Like I said above to Dr.Grump that between 1940-2000 had the highest solar output in 2000 years, or since the days of the mid evil warm period.

Also there are many other factors that control sea ice and global temperatures.

Such as the Sun.

But the Sun is at its lowest level of activity in 80 years, and yet the ice continues to melt.

Why?

Oceans cover most of the planet and have the ability to hold heat for many years. One of the main reasons for long wait for big solar climate changes. It is true that the sun is at it's lowest level in 80 years and will have some effect, and maybe the reason why the temperature increase global has stopped warming over the last 8 years.

One factor within these interglacial periods is that as the temperature warms be it causes by the sun or something else. You almost always get a increase in green house gases, which enhances it some what. Methane, increase of water vapor within the atmosphere. But it has more of affect of making the warm period last longer then a pronounce warming. In which cause makes earth climate system more stable then it would other wise be.

It took 50 years for huge effects to occur with the little ice age, with around 1-1.5c of overall global cooling. The climate shift 9,500 years ago had about 3-5 times that.

 

[Old Rocks]

As somebody wrote recently. 97 percent of climatologists (note naysayers I say climatologists - you know the guys and gals who've spent every moment of their working lives studying this shit, not some Horray Henry's with an opinion and NOT scientists) said global warming is happening and humans are the cause of some of it. If 97 percent of doctors told you the food you were about to eat contained deadly toxins, would you eat it?

Only dumbarse right-wing Yanks say it ain't happening...wonder why...

It has NOT warmed in 10 years Dr.Grumps. The sciencist pretty much admitted that they where messing with the data in the emails. Where is this 2c going to come from since we're where during the 20th century at the highest solar output in 2,000 years and now fully out of the little ice age? Makes no sense. It is the heat island effect with that solar max period that made us warm up and now we have leveled off. I feel sorry for all those people that worked there whole lifes just to be feed shitty data. In fact that data was destroyed.

If there is global warming than more food for all. I doubt it.

Science don't give a fllying rats ass about the majority, but it does care about data and finding out what is right or wrong based on it. It is not political or numbers game in science.

Man, have you even looked at the numbers? The last decade has been the warmest on record. The decade before that was warmer than the prior decade. And the coming decade will be warmer than any before it in the time we have been keeping records.

No, you dumb ass. The data was not destroyed. The data that East Anglia had from other sources was dumped. The original source of the data still has the data.

Leveled off? The last four months are the warmest ever measured for that period.

 

[Old Rocks]

Yeah, the enso(el nino/la nina) has a very pronounce effect on global temperatures of at least .1 to .5c of shift. One of the main reasons 1998 was as warm as it was is because of the strongest el nino in history. Also when you consider that solar output from the solar cycles can have effects on the climate of upwards of .1-.2c within only a few years you can't possible say that man kind is the only factor. Like I said above to Dr.Grump that between 1940-2000 had the highest solar output in 2000 years, or since the days of the mid evil warm period.

Also there are many other factors that control sea ice and global temperatures.

Such as the Sun.

But the Sun is at its lowest level of activity in 80 years, and yet the ice continues to melt.

Why?

Oceans cover most of the planet and have the ability to hold heat for many years. One of the main reasons for long wait for big solar climate changes. It is true that the sun is at it's lowest level in 80 years and will have some effect, and maybe the reason why the temperature increase global has stopped warming over the last 8 years.

One factor within these interglacial periods is that as the temperature warms be it causes by the sun or something else. You almost always get a increase in green house gases, which enhances it some what. Methane, increase of water vapor within the atmosphere. But it has more of affect of making the warm period last longer then a pronounce warming. In which cause makes earth climate system more stable then it would other wise be.

It took 50 years for huge effects to occur with the little ice age, with around 1-1.5c of overall global cooling. The climate shift 9,500 years ago had about 3-5 times that.

You are alluding to the end of the Younger Dryas. That was caused by an influx of fresh water off of the Canadian Shield that shut down the thermohaline circulation. And it did not take 50 years. The climate changed in less than a decade.

Two examples of abrupt climate change

 

[Big Fitz]

By your logic only man changes climate.

No, that's your logic.

No, by my rather solid logic, mankind has almost no impact on planetary climate. He can have strong localized impact, but that's it. We're more likely to poison ourselves than change the weather.

 

[Old Rocks]

By your logic only man changes climate.

No, that's your logic.

No, by my rather solid logic, mankind has almost no impact on planetary climate. He can have strong localized impact, but that's it. We're more likely to poison ourselves than change the weather.

We increase the atmospheres content of CO2 by 40%, of CH4 by 150%, and add GHGs that nature has never seen before with as much as 20,000 times as much effectiveness of CO2, but we cannot have any affect on the Planetary Climate.

And one little oil well way out in the Gulf cannot have an major affect, either.