arctic ice

[Old Rocks]

Looking back to this summers melt, one can see that the predictions of the 'alarmists' were way off. The melt is far more rapid than even the most alarmist of them suggested.

Climate Change Panel's 2007 Predictions on Arctic Ice Too Optimistic? | Alaska Dispatch

The polar sea has been losing about 10 percent of its permanent ice every decade since 1980, with the 2011 melt season delivering the lowest volume seen during the modern age, and virtually matching the minimum record for the smallest extent set in 2007.

If the current trend continues, some scientists say, the polar ocean could become essentially ice free during summers within a decade or two. That outcome is about 80 years sooner than what the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change predicted in 2007.

So what gives? It turns out those IPCC supercomputing climate models, which conjured the once-unthinkable possibility of an ice-free Arctic Ocean by summer of 2100, all fumbled a key calculation. They underestimated just how fast thinning floes could exit south to the Atlantic Ocean where they would melt into slushy oblivion.

 

[Old Rocks]

A short video by the USGS demostrating one effect of the diminishing ice.

Featured video: Arctic ice melt creates mass walrus 'haul-outs'

 

[Old Rocks]

Record Arctic Ice Melt Threatens Global Security - IPS ipsnews.net

This year, the summer weather was normal and yet it the ice vanished in similar amounts to 2007.

"That tells us the sea ice is too thin now to hold up under normal weather conditions," he said.

Both the Northwest Passage and the Northern Sea Route across the Arctic are wide open again, as has happened almost every year since 2007. An oil tanker recently crossed the Arctic Ocean in the record time of eight days travelling from Houston, Texas to Map Ta Phut, Thailand.

This summer's ice loss is double the summer ice melt of 30 to 40 years ago. A child born at the advent of the satellite era, when humanity had its first complete look at the frozen vastness, would be 32 years old today. Now they would see that more than three million square kilometres of ice - about the size of India - has vanished this summer compared to the summer they were born.

 

[wirebender]

And do you believe this is even approaches the boundries of natural variability?

 

[Old Rocks]

No, it does not approach the boundry of natural variability in the time frame that it has happened.

 

[wirebender]

No, it does not approach the boundry of natural variability in the time frame that it has happened.

Really? Got any proof? Got any hard evidence that the ice didn't melt even more quickly during the roman and medieval warm periods when the warming took place even more rapidly and to a greater degree than the present? Got any evidence at all?

 

[Old Rocks]

Well, first of all, all real evidence shows that the MWP was not nearly as warm worldwide as today. The RWP was too far in the past to get any real accuracy with the proxies, but I suspect that it, like the MWP was primarily an Atlantic and Northern European effect.

The Medieval Warm(ish) Period In Pictures

Science marches on while skeptics don't
The MWP was very unlike warming today; the growing North American glaciers during the MWP being somewhat of a giveaway. The MWP only affected warming in a handful of regions, with Greenland being especially warm (Figure 1), whereas much of the Earth was actually cooler than the late 20th century. By comparison; today virtually every glacier and ice sheet on the planet is in rapid retreat.

Both the climate proxies and the climate models imply that the MWP was a re-organization of the Earth's climate, and that much of this re-organization can be explained by oceanic patterns of warming and cooling, although what started all this rolling in the first place is still unknown.

So while some climate "skeptics" are stuck in a time loop, wilfully reliving their own version of Groundhog Day, science continues to move forward.

 

[wirebender]

Well, first of all, all real evidence shows that the MWP was not nearly as warm worldwide as today. The RWP was too far in the past to get any real accuracy with the proxies, but I suspect that it, like the MWP was primarily an Atlantic and Northern European effect.

Really? That's the problem with only getting information from your church rocks. How many dozen peer reviewed papers would you like to see that find that the medieveal warm period was not only considerably warmer than the present, but was global in nature?


Here, have a few, I have dozens.

ingentaconnect A 700 year record of Southern Hemisphere extratropical climate va...

SpringerLink - Chinese Science Bulletin, Volume 53, Number 19

CSA

Evidence for a warmer period during the 12th and 13th centuries AD from chironomid assemblages in Southampton Island, Nunavut, Canada

SpringerLink - Climatic Change, Volume 26, Numbers 2-3

Warmer and global in nature rocks. Science wins again.

 

[Old Rocks]

Do I ever love it when you dumb asses don't even bother to read what is in the links you post! The MWP was over by 1700, which is where the time period this article is concerned with starts. And you really should try to read the abstracts with at least a bit of comprehension. Did you even notice the last sentence?

ingentaconnect A 700 year record of Southern Hemisphere extratropical climate va...

Abstract:

Annually dated ice cores from West and East Antarctica provide proxies for past changes in atmospheric circulation over Antarctica and portions of the Southern Ocean, temperature in coastal West and East Antarctica, and the frequency of South Polar penetration of El Niño events. During the period AD 1700-1850, atmospheric circulation over the Antarctic and at least portions of the Southern Hemisphere underwent a mode switch departing from the out-of-phase alternation of multi-decadal long phases of EOF1 and EOF2 modes of the 850 hPa field over the Southern Hemisphere (as defined in the recent record by Thompson and Wallace, 2000; Thompson and Solomon, 2002) that characterizes the remainder of the 700 year long record. From AD 1700 to 1850, lower-tropospheric circulation was replaced by in-phase behavior of the Amundsen Sea Low component of EOF2 and the East Antarctic High component of EOF1. During the first phase of the mode switch, both West and East Antarctic temperatures declined, potentially in response to the increased extent of sea ice surrounding both regions. At the end of the mode switch, West Antarctic coastal temperatures rose and East Antarctic coastal temperatures fell, respectively, to their second highest and lowest of the record. Polar penetration of El Niño events increased during the mode switch. The onset of the AD 1700-1850 mode switch coincides with the extreme state of the Maunder Minimum in solar variability. Late 20th-century West Antarctic coastal temperatures are the highest in the record period, and East Antarctic coastal temperatures close to the lowest. Since AD 1700, extratropical regions of the Southern Hemisphere have experienced significant climate variability coincident with changes in both solar variability and greenhouse gases.

 

[Old Rocks]

The rest of the articles are good finds. Thank you for posting them.

 

[wirebender]

The rest of the articles are good finds. Thank you for posting them.

Rocks, you poor moron, where do you get the idea that data show that the MWP was only .2C warmer than today? Do you just look at words and see what you need to see? Here is what the research shows with regard to global temps during the MWP.

 

[Old Rocks]

Real peer reviewed science, old boy.

Bent, that is just stupid to post. And where I got the 0.2 C increase for the MWP is from a peer reviewed study concerning ocean cores that Walleyes posted the link to.

Center for the Study of Carbon Dioxide and Global Change - SourceWatch

In August 2011, Center founder and Chairman Craig Idso spoke on "Benefit Analysis of CO2"[2] (previously known as "Warming Up to Climate Change: The Many Benefits of Increased Atmospheric CO2"[3]) at the Energy, Environment and Agriculture Task Force meeting at the 2011 American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC) Annual Meeting.[4] He was accompanied by Robert Ferguson of the Science and Public Policy Institute and MEP Roger Helmer, a Member of the European Parliament for the East Midlands of Great Britain who represents the Conservative Party and has used his position on the European Parliament to fight increased regulation of member states through the European Union.[4]

ALEC is not a lobby; it is not a front group. It is much more powerful than that. Through ALEC, behind closed doors, corporations hand state legislators the changes to the law they desire that directly benefit their bottom line. Along with legislators, corporations have membership in ALEC. Corporations sit on all nine ALEC task forces and vote with legislators to approve “model” bills. They have their own corporate governing board which meets jointly with the legislative board. (ALEC says that corporations do not vote on the board.) They fund almost all of ALEC's operations. Participating legislators, overwhelmingly conservative Republicans, then bring those proposals home and introduce them in statehouses across the land as their own brilliant ideas and important public policy innovations—without disclosing that corporations crafted and voted on the bills. ALEC boasts that it has over 1,000 of these bills introduced by legislative members every year, with one in every five of them enacted into law. ALEC describes itself as a “unique,” “unparalleled” and “unmatched” organization. It might be right. It is as if a state legislature had been reconstituted, yet corporations had pushed the people out the door. Learn more at ALECexposed.org.


IRS Form 990 curiosities
The Center's 2009 IRS 990 reports paying $187,500 to Robert E. Ferguson of SPPI, plus a $60k bonus, for a total of $247,500. The circumstances surrounding this payment remain unclear.[5] (and SPPI appears to be a shell company...)

It also reports $345,791 for "Contract labor".

The Center reported income of $25,449 for 2003 [6]; this appears inconsistent with Exxon's reported 2003 donation of $40,000 plus Sarah Scaife Foundation's 2003 donation of $50,000.

Attempts to hear explanations for these curiosities from Ferguson and the Idsos have not been successful.[7]


Mission
The Center states on its website that its mission is to distribute "factual reports and sound commentary on new developments in the world-wide scientific quest to determine the climatic and biological consequences of the ongoing rise in the air's CO2 content" [1].

 

[wirebender]

Again rocks, you prove that you just aren't the sharpest knife in the drawer. CO2 science only provided the map, it is based on the peer reviewed work of 752 individual scientists, representing 442 research institutions from 41 different countries. Sorry rocks, but the vast perponderance of the evidence shows that the MWP was considerably warmer than the present, global in nature, and came on faster than the warming of a decade ago since there has been no warming to speak of in the past decade or so.

 

[Old Rocks]

Link?

 

[bripat9643]

Looking back to this summers melt, one can see that the predictions of the 'alarmists' were way off. The melt is far more rapid than even the most alarmist of them suggested.

Climate Change Panel's 2007 Predictions on Arctic Ice Too Optimistic? | Alaska Dispatch

The polar sea has been losing about 10 percent of its permanent ice every decade since 1980, with the 2011 melt season delivering the lowest volume seen during the modern age, and virtually matching the minimum record for the smallest extent set in 2007.

If the current trend continues, some scientists say, the polar ocean could become essentially ice free during summers within a decade or two. That outcome is about 80 years sooner than what the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change predicted in 2007.

So what gives? It turns out those IPCC supercomputing climate models, which conjured the once-unthinkable possibility of an ice-free Arctic Ocean by summer of 2100, all fumbled a key calculation. They underestimated just how fast thinning floes could exit south to the Atlantic Ocean where they would melt into slushy oblivion.

I recall when algore made a similar claim, and it turned out to be a big fat lie.

 

[Old Rocks]

Pattycake, you dumb ass, the observations on the arctic ice are made by multiple space agencies from many nations. Scientists from all the nations on the Arctic Rim are stating the same thing.

Learn to do some research instead of proving what a truly dumb ass you are by posting irrelevant yap-yap.

 

[Old Rocks]

MWP, where art thou?

Scientists confirm shrinking Arctic trend by studying glacial 'archive'

Scientists confirm shrinking Arctic trend by studying glacial 'archive'

Retreat of ice in the past 10 years exceeds any thaw in more than 14 centuries

By Randy Boswell, Postmedia News November 25, 2011

A major study of Arctic ice trends over the past 1,450 years - published this week in the high-profile journal Nature, and confirming the "unprecedented" severity of the region's continuing meltdown - was carried out using a Canadian government-owned "archive" of glacial ice cores that was at the centre of a recent controversy over its future.

The study, co-authored by Geological Survey of Canada ice scientist Christian Zdanowicz and five other researchers from Canada, Chile, Nor-way and the U.S., concludes that the record-setting summertime retreat of sea ice witnessed during the past decade exceeds any Arctic thaw in more than 14 centuries.


Read more: Scientists confirm shrinking Arctic trend by studying glacial 'archive'

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Arctic Weather Map

4 cardinal point today

Barrow -2F
Alert -20F
Vize -6F
Kotel -26F

What the melting temperature of ice?

 

[skookerasbil]

Guess what?



The OP and a handful of others are concerned. Nobody else.

There are some that lobby against people getting on a jetliner due to crash risks.....we all know how effective their efforts are!

The psychology the exact same with climate alarmism....people see the POTENTIAL risks. But it's not going to change their behavior. So in 2018, almost nobody pays attention to Arctic ice stuff....seen it a billion times before and see pics of the Arctic and its lily white and frosy...... for thousands of square miles .

Like I've been saying.....this kind of discussions are for folks who enjoy a healthy hobby. Model railroading is actually more popular s0ns!


Get some real responsibilities in life....that way, you stop worrying about st00pid stuff.

 

[jc456]

Guess what?



The OP and a handful of others are concerned. Nobody else.

There are some that lobby against people getting on a jetliner due to crash risks.....we all know how effective their efforts are!

The psychology the exact same with climate alarmism....people see the POTENTIAL risks. But it's not going to change their behavior. So in 2018, almost nobody pays attention to Arctic ice stuff....seen it a billion times before and see pics of the Arctic and its lily white and frosy...... for thousands of square miles .

Like I've been saying.....this kind of discussions are for folks who enjoy a healthy hobby. Model railroading is actually more popular s0ns!


Get some real responsibilities in life....that way, you stop worrying about st00pid stuff.

skooks, funny, I think they actually think the sun is hitting the north pole in Winter time in the northern hemisphere. Cause for some reason they think places get warm without sunlight. Me thinks they are crazies, but that's just me.