Arabic-Moslem troops were not the Congas.

Discussion in 'Middle East - General' started by belalady, Mar 8, 2004.

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  1. belalady
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    belalady Guest

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    Arabic-Moslem troops were not the Congas.

    America, which has the upper hand to fight terrorism of which she is victim, makes some errors, which are though comprehensible. When the offensive against Saddam started, some envisaged a lengthy conflict, his army opposite and fighting until the end. Even some thought of a likely beginning of a third world war. Let us recall the calls and protests of the American leaders who doubted about the victory. There have been for decades images of Moslem armies during their military parades. Impeccable review musters with a lot of war material, trampling sometimes the American flag. Previous to the war events, the poisoning of Islamic propaganda had succeeded in convincing the American leaders of a possible and probable military defeat, of an overwhelming shameful rout and of a shameful and heavy cost on casualties. Let us recall that even President Bush called the nation for meditation, to fast and pray as it happened once at the time of the American Civil War. Terrorist propaganda had succeeded in making us believe that. And it also made us believe that it would be a second –even worst– Vietnam.
    However, it was seen that in a 3-4 weeks time, the US military victory over the ground was achieved. Saddam’s army was thence seen as a paper tiger, with its soldiers deposing their weapons as they no longer wanted to fight for an unjust regime. They had served their dictator for they had no choice and they needed to feed themselves and their families, the leaders having all the manna form the richness of oil.
    But the fact was given –I do not know why– that the Arab soldiers do not have neither the discipline nor the ferocity in combat and war that the soldiers of the communist countries of Asia have always shown. Only the scientists and the learned can explain why the communist regimes, which were not democratic either, obtained a considerably larger obedience in their troops than the Arabic-Moslems soldiers, who made defection almost immediately. The researchers may be able to explain it. However, I do not have this claim or the pretension to write on such a matter. Anyhow, that a totally different subject.
    The victory after the fall of Baghdad surprised everyone for its speed. A piece of evidence that even the American leaders did not expect it to be so fast was given by all the plundering which started immediately, the American being not able to stop it as such situation had not been foreseen. Honest, good and honorable people were killed and stolen, with the lack of protection by the American troops, who did not know how to act, and did not receive clear instructions against those looters, who tarnished very much the image of the United States, with these confusions of museums for example. The strategists had not thought of that, neither a so rapid victory.
    Only one conclusion must be withdrawn from all that. All the battle fields are not the same ones. You should not always use the same mould to face the enemy, for the enemy is different each time. Furthermore, there is not one sole pattern for wars, from World War II to Southeastern Asia conflicts and even to Iraq. It is evident that the US soldiers and marines are not trained to face the urban guerrilla and repeated civilian demonstrations as police forces would be trained for. Future troops or army corps should have to be trained for that, with a very high behavior of police forces and should act thus as police officers rather than soldiers sometimes. They should be perhaps mixed corps, with a double formation I do not know, able in protecting the goods and the people. The troops formation and the discovery on the battle field only after their arrival is not good. They must certainly be trained before arriving in the ground.

    I strongly recommend you to read my last post, which the link is here : http://www.usmessageboard.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3666
    which will drive you to my main text : “about freedom and Iraq”
    http://www.usmessageboard.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3664
    Best regards
     
  2. kcmcdonald
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    Belalady,

    Good post however, you can't make the army a police force. To train in one is to negelect in the other. Fighting for ground and territory is complettly different than fighting for law and order. The looting was a problem that no one saw. However, yopu can't fault the Iraqies. They had lived in poverty under the thumb of Sadam for 30+ years. The man lived in lavious luxury while the citizens lived like peasents. They just wanted a share of the wealth. It was the first time they need not fear Sadam and they took advantage of it.
    Back to my original point. The US Army and Marine corps. can not be trained in a policing function. Even though the last few "wars" or peace kepping missions we've been on have been a "Policing opperation." These operations need to be handled by a seperate entity. The Army is ment to destroy and kill. That's it. The marines are trained to destroy and kill. Policing is a totaly different stratedgy. The services need to devot a whole section to policing. However we don't have the men to commit to such an endevor. So we will let the Army police till we put a national police agency in affect, then hand responsibility over to them.
     
  3. Zhukov
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    This is true.

    We have army artillery, army armored cavalry, army airborne soldiers, and worst of all marines, who are expected to operate as police. Ideally U.S. soldiers, our marines most of all, should never be used in this fashion.

    Unfortunately this has become a necessary reality too often recently. I too believe it is time to form a new branch of the military, one to be used primarily as military police.

    The problem is of course, who would want to join that branch?
     
  4. MadMax
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    Very good point, a different branch needs to be created to handle the police type functions ( not our current military police ) they are NOT specifically trained to police hostile countries and radical suicide bombers in a hostile land. I also wonder what kind of person would volunteer for a branch of this sort, but hey people volunteer to be rescue workers, special forces, emts and stuff like that so there are a lot of crazy people who would I am sure. And thank GOD for them, they are awesome.:cool:
     
  5. AtlantaWalter
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    Don't you think that, if a people are freed from a dictatorship, they should take some civic responsibility and do what they can to preserve their new found freedom?

    Should they not take some individual/community responsibility and police themselves to some degree?

    I think a lot of the people over there are still living in fear of what may happen to themselves or their families if they were to snitch on neighbors whom they know/believe to be part of the terrorists doing these acts. But there comes a time when one has to sacrifice if freedom is to take hold and be maintained. You cannot wait and let the other guy do all of the work if you want to be free.
     
  6. Zhukov
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    Of course.

    Eventually they should take all of the responsibility, but in the interim between the collapse of the old power structure and the formation of a new one a police presence must exist to maintain order. The vacuum created by this collapse requires, at the very least, a temporary police force provided by an outside power. As the UN has proven itself to be ineffectual in this arena it behooves us to take measures to better prepare to shoulder such responsibility, in it's entirety, ourselves.
     
  7. MadMax
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    :clap: :clap: :clap: Thank you that said what I was thinking...:D Kinda what we're doing in Iraq???;)
     
  8. Comrade
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    "It is evident that the US soldiers and marines are not trained to face the urban guerrilla"

    When it comes to putting down an general armed insurrection I expect US soldiers have no equal. A 100-1 kill ratio is a benchmark already set by outnumbered, unarmored troops without heavy weapons or logistical support in close urban warfare such as in Mogadishu.


    I agree though, it's a real problem when American soldiers are expected to search and engage targets in relatively non-hostile civilian locations . New training in non-lethal weapons and crowd control is needed to do this job effectively. But at some point we need to decide whether the US military should be trained to kill and defeat our enemies in large formations, or tread carefully around in a big white painted humvee as a neutral party.

    We had the French for that but I think Poland, Japan, Spain, and Italy all want their job?


    Me I'd rather our US military remains a can of whoopass. In and out and back home by Christmas.
     
  9. regulator
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    yes, I think the same
     
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