Arab animals massacred Jews way before 1948

[Saigon]

The First Aliyah began in around 1899, and by 1910 Palestinians were becoming concerned about the loss of land, and the potential to lose more. Quite understandably, Palestinians fought back against the loss of land, much of which was simply taken and occupied. Assuming that Palestinians would not have objected to Israelis taking land before the formation of the state 1948 is simply mindless.

This is laughable nonsense - so when do the whites in the US get to start terrorising the non-whites for immigrating? Does every group get to use terrorism against "others" moving in? Do people in a mostly black neighborhood get to suicide bomb gentrifying whites moving in? Or is it only arab muslims?

And what kind of BS is "simply taken" mean? That none of the arabs sold their property to jews? You are sadly devoid of the facts here...

Rhdoes -

I don't see that Israel in 1930 and the USA in 2012 make a very suitable basis for comparison in terms of the legal owrnership of land, nor on the legal acquisition of land.

If you do, I'd be curious to know on what basis.

Many Arabs did sell land to settling Israelis, but as much more was stolen - including land my own kibbutz was settled on, so I actually know quite a lot about the process.

In short - a group of Israelis would move in to an unoccupied seciton of land at night, and during the night build basic fortifications. Within their trenches they would start erecting buildings, while they dug themselves in to repulse any attacks from local Palestinian villagers.

In many cases a section of land was purchased, but the kibbutz extended well beyond its boundaries.

 

[P F Tinmore]

After that, is when the Jews decided to form groups like the Irgun or Haganah to defend themselves against the Muslim animals. This is recorded history.

.

It's also nonnsense, of course - Irgun were as involved in attacks against the British as defense against the Palestinians.

Haganah were more defensive in nature, and Palmach more of a traditional military force, but the Irgun were definitely a militant movement who utulized terror attacks.

It just occured to me, you know, tht I don't think I have ever seen you post an accurate statement on this board. That really is quite an impressive achievement!

...defense against the Palestinians.

Why does everyone use the term defense when it is the Palestinians who were always on the defense?

 

[Saigon]

...defense against the Palestinians.

Why does everyone use the term defense when it is the Palestinians who were always on the defense?

From what people on kibbutz told me, they were attacked by local Palestinian farmers - but they were attacked because they were settling on land they hadn't paid for.

I think everyone on any side of this debate can understand that if you just settle on a piece of unoccupied farm land without buying it from the legal owner, you invite attack.

 

[P F Tinmore]

...defense against the Palestinians.

Why does everyone use the term defense when it is the Palestinians who were always on the defense?

From what people on kibbutz told me, they were attacked by local Palestinian farmers - but they were attacked because they were settling on land they hadn't paid for.

I think everyone on any side of this debate can understand that if you just settle on a piece of unoccupied farm land without buying it from the legal owner, you invite attack.

Then why does Israel always claim that it is defending itself when it is the attacker?

 

[rhodescholar]

I don't see that Israel in 1930 and the USA in 2012 make a very suitable basis for comparison in terms of the legal owrnership of land, nor on the legal acquisition of land. If you do, I'd be curious to know on what basis.

It is an absolute uncontested fact that absentee arab owners sold huge amounts of tracts of land to jews.

And it would appear that your mind is made up that jews are not allowed to move into areas - but it is acceptable for large numbers of arab muslims to move into places like Detroit, Michigan, Brooklyn or Paterson NJ - and take over the area entirely. Perhaps those who were living in these areas should conduct a few pogroms to eradicate the muslim invaders, especially since they are putting up all of their store signs in arabic, building lots of mosques, chanting insults at non-muslim women who do not dress modestly, etc. Sounds like a takeover to me.

Many Arabs did sell land to settling Israelis, but as much more was stolen - including land my own kibbutz was settled on, so I actually know quite a lot about the process.

"Stolen"? How do you "steal" land, particularly if you are outnumbered 6-to-1?

Interesting that you are coming out now with the statement that you claim to be an arab from the region, no wonder you harbor such hatred of jews and israel - you perceive them as having "stolen" something from you...perhaps you should ask your older relatives why they chose to conduct pogroms against jews from the early 1900s, and an all-out war in 1948 against them - rather than accepting newcomers, or opting for a negotiated settlement.

In short - a group of Israelis would move in to an unoccupied seciton of land at night, and during the night build basic fortifications. Within their trenches they would start erecting buildings, while they dug themselves in to repulse any attacks from local Palestinian villagers.

Give an example of this event happening in 1920 - 1948.

In many cases a section of land was purchased, but the kibbutz extended well beyond its boundaries.

In NYC and SF, chinatown is extending and growing due to the burgeoning chinese population immigrating into the area - but somehow, I just don't see the locals forming attack squads to forcibly remove/kill the newcomers.

Why do you excuse away this from the arab muslims?

 

[P F Tinmore]

I don't see that Israel in 1930 and the USA in 2012 make a very suitable basis for comparison in terms of the legal owrnership of land, nor on the legal acquisition of land. If you do, I'd be curious to know on what basis.

It is an absolute uncontested fact that absentee arab owners sold huge amounts of tracts of land to jews.

And it would appear that your mind is made up that jews are not allowed to move into areas - but it is acceptable for large numbers of arab muslims to move into places like Detroit, Michigan, Brooklyn or Paterson NJ - and take over the area entirely. Perhaps those who were living in these areas should conduct a few pogroms to eradicate the muslim invaders, especially since they are putting up all of their store signs in arabic, building lots of mosques, chanting insults at non-muslim women who do not dress modestly, etc. Sounds like a takeover to me.

Many Arabs did sell land to settling Israelis, but as much more was stolen - including land my own kibbutz was settled on, so I actually know quite a lot about the process.

"Stolen"? How do you "steal" land, particularly if you are outnumbered 6-to-1?

Interesting that you are coming out now with the statement that you claim to be an arab from the region, no wonder you harbor such hatred of jews and israel - you perceive them as having "stolen" something from you...perhaps you should ask your older relatives why they chose to conduct pogroms against jews from the early 1900s, and an all-out war in 1948 against them - rather than accepting newcomers, or opting for a negotiated settlement.

In short - a group of Israelis would move in to an unoccupied seciton of land at night, and during the night build basic fortifications. Within their trenches they would start erecting buildings, while they dug themselves in to repulse any attacks from local Palestinian villagers.

Give an example of this event happening in 1920 - 1948.

In many cases a section of land was purchased, but the kibbutz extended well beyond its boundaries.

In NYC and SF, chinatown is extending and growing due to the burgeoning chinese population immigrating into the area - but somehow, I just don't see the locals forming attack squads to forcibly remove/kill the newcomers.

Why do you excuse away this from the arab muslims?

t is an absolute uncontested fact that absentee arab owners sold huge amounts of tracts of land to jews.

Yeah, about 7%.

The resat was stolen at the point of a gun.

 

[rhodescholar]

From what people on kibbutz told me, they were attacked by local Palestinian farmers - but they were attacked because they were settling on land they hadn't paid for.

It is really amazing that when out to scrutiny, so many, if not all, of the pal arab claims never seem to hold up to rational - let alone factual - scrutiny. And you claim to be a journalist, yet proffer nonsensical, irrational bedtime stories like this that make no sense...

How can a few jews manage to just move onto someone else'e property who vastly outnumbers them - and manage to militarily defeat far larger numbers - over and over, across an entire region?

So you're saying that if a homeless person moves into my home, my whole family is just going to pack our bags and leave? Think for 3 seconds how stupid that sounds. Sounds more like a group of people who opted for war and lost trying to ethnically cleanse some jews, who knew they were fighting for their very lives, and lost - so now they want to cry "I am a victim" with fabricated nonsense stories about the past. Sorry, but if you're a real journalist at a respected, MSM news source - I'm Michael Jordan. Quality journalist don't fabricate, and people with genuine claims about victim status don't start wars, lose, and then ask for do-overs.

 

[P F Tinmore]

From what people on kibbutz told me, they were attacked by local Palestinian farmers - but they were attacked because they were settling on land they hadn't paid for.

It is really amazing that when out to scrutiny, so many, if not all, of the pal arab claims never seem to hold up to rational - let alone factual - scrutiny. And you claim to be a journalist, yet proffer nonsensical, irrational bedtime stories like this that make no sense...

How can a few jews manage to just move onto someone else'e property who vastly outnumbers them - and manage to militarily defeat far larger numbers - over and over, across an entire region?

So you're saying that if a homeless person moves into my home, my whole family is just going to pack our bags and leave? Think for 3 seconds how stupid that sounds.

WOW, you need to read up.

 

[Saigon]

Rhodes -

It is an absolute uncontested fact that absentee arab owners sold huge amounts of tracts of land to jews.

Yes, it is. I doubt anyone will suggest otherwise.

Again - I am not talking about Detroit, and I see absolutely no resemblance between Palestine in 1930, and the USA in 2012. I doubt you do either.

How can a few jews manage to move onto someone else'e property who vastly outnumbers them - and manage to militarily defeat far larger numbers - over and over, across an entire region?

In the case of my kibbutz, because there were around 200 Jewish settlers, including many from neighbouring kibbutzim settled earlier who came to support the new settlers. They were adequately armed.

The opposing Palestinians were few in number (the nearest actual village is Magdal Shams, some 10 kilometres away and up in the hills), poorly armed and neither particularly unified nor organised.

The Israelis were better equipped, more disicplined and were usually well dug in by the time villagers realised they were even there.

 

[Saigon]

Give an example of this event happening in 1920 - 1948.

Well...off the top of my head Dan, Dafna, Ha Goshrim, Sanaa...

 

[Saigon]

...and the proof...

Dafna (Hebrew: דַּפְנָה**) is a kibbutz in the Upper Galilee in northern Israel, 7 km east of Kiryat Shmona. It was founded on 3 May 1939, after the tower and stockade principle, it was the first tower and stockade settlement in the northern Hula Valley. Dan and Dafna are known as "the Ussishkin Fortresses".

"Tower and stockade":

Tower and stockade (Hebrew: חומה ומגדל*, Homa UMigdal, lit. Wall and tower) was a settlement method used by Zionist settlers in the British Mandate of Palestine during the 1936–39 Arab revolt, when the establishment of new Jewish settlements was restricted by the Mandatory authorities. During the course of the Tower and stockade campaign, 52 new Jewish settlements were established throughout the country. A Turkish Ottoman law, that was in effect during the Mandate period, stated that any illegal building may not be demolished if the roof has been completed.

The objective of these settlements was to seize control of land that had been officially purchased by the KKL-JNF,[1] so to have as much Jewish-owned land as possible populated by Jews, particularly in remote areas, by establishing "facts on the ground." These settlements would eventually be transformed into fortified agricultural settlements, and served for security purposes (as defenses against Arab raiders) as well as creating continuous Jewish-populated regions, which would later help determine the borders of the Partition Plan.

All of the major settlement groups (mostly kibbutzim and moshavim) took part in the campaign, which consisted of assembling a guard tower with a fence around it. While many of these settlements were not approved by the Mandate, existing settlements were not dismantled according to the Turkish Ottoman law at the time. Therefore, the construction of the Tower and Stockade settlements had to be finished very quickly, usually in the course of a single night.[2]

Dafna - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The only thing missing from this article is the fact that the land purchases and settlements did not always match up. Settlers often occupied more land than had been purchased, or eve different land from that which had been purchased.

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[Roudy]

Irgun and Haganah were formed AFTER the Hebron massacre and other similar massacres., as a self protection mechanism, and then expanded to fighting the British. Notice Tinmore refuses to answer a simple question. what's really notin sense is this myth that Arabs massacre people because of occupation whereas there was no occupation in 1920 when Arabs went on a savage rampage. Most of the Islamist related bombings of civilians in the world today, many of them against fellow Muslims, are not due to any occupation.

It requires very little for them to start slaughtering people. A sneeze would be enough.

 

[Roudy]

...and the proof...

Dafna (Hebrew: דַּפְנָה**) is a kibbutz in the Upper Galilee in northern Israel, 7 km east of Kiryat Shmona. It was founded on 3 May 1939, after the tower and stockade principle, it was the first tower and stockade settlement in the northern Hula Valley. Dan and Dafna are known as "the Ussishkin Fortresses".

"Tower and stockade":

Tower and stockade (Hebrew: חומה ומגדל*, Homa UMigdal, lit. Wall and tower) was a settlement method used by Zionist settlers in the British Mandate of Palestine during the 1936–39 Arab revolt, when the establishment of new Jewish settlements was restricted by the Mandatory authorities. During the course of the Tower and stockade campaign, 52 new Jewish settlements were established throughout the country. A Turkish Ottoman law, that was in effect during the Mandate period, stated that any illegal building may not be demolished if the roof has been completed.

The objective of these settlements was to seize control of land that had been officially purchased by the KKL-JNF,[1] so to have as much Jewish-owned land as possible populated by Jews, particularly in remote areas, by establishing "facts on the ground." These settlements would eventually be transformed into fortified agricultural settlements, and served for security purposes (as defenses against Arab raiders) as well as creating continuous Jewish-populated regions, which would later help determine the borders of the Partition Plan.

All of the major settlement groups (mostly kibbutzim and moshavim) took part in the campaign, which consisted of assembling a guard tower with a fence around it. While many of these settlements were not approved by the Mandate, existing settlements were not dismantled according to the Turkish Ottoman law at the time. Therefore, the construction of the Tower and Stockade settlements had to be finished very quickly, usually in the course of a single night.[2]

Dafna - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The only thing missing from this article is the fact that the land purchases and settlements did not always match up. Settlers often occupied more land than had been purchased, or eve different land from that which had been purchased.

[/URL][/IMG]

Ya and? Thanks you for proving that The Turks owned the land. And all of this is way after 1910's and 1920's when Arab animals decided to start slaughtering Jews.

 

[Saigon]

Roudy -

If you do manage to muster an honest adult response, I'll be sure and reply to it.


Did you enjoy my journalism, btw?

 

[Roudy]

What journalism?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1929_Hebron_massacre

The Hebron massacre refers to the killing of sixty-seven Jews on 24 August 1929 in Hebron, then part of the British Mandate of Palestine, by Arabs incited to violence by rumors that Jews were massacring Arabs[1] in Jerusalem and seizing control of Muslim holy places. This massacre, together with that of Safed, sent shock waves through Jewish communities in Palestine and across the world.
During the massacre, 67 Jews were killed and Jewish homes and synagogues were ransacked. The survivors were evacuated from Hebron by the British authorities.[4] It also led to the re-organization and development of the Jewish paramilitary organization, the Haganah, which later became the nucleus of the Israel Defense Forces.

Background
Hebron, located 30*km south of Jerusalem, is the second holiest site in Judaism, and one of the Jewish Four Holy Cities, and mentioned repeatedly in the Hebrew Bible. (Hebron was a place of significance for Muslims too, as the prophet Abraham, recognized by all "Abrahamic" faiths, was laid to rest there.) It is the location of the Cave of Machpelah, holding the Tomb of the Patriarchs of the Israelites, where Abraham, the first Patriarch of the Jews (father and grandfather to Patriarchs Isaac and Jacob, respectively), was buried, and where David was anointed King of Israel, reigning there until his capture of Jerusalem. In 1929, the Jewish Sephardic/Mizrachi community had been living in Hebron continuously for over 800 years under various imperial powers, and the Jewish Ashkenazi community had roots there that went back at least a century.[5]

 

[P F Tinmore]

The British during the mandate violated the League of Nations Covenant and its own mandate. This led to the violation of the Palestinian's rights.

Britain attempted to put the mandate back on track with its 1939 white pater but that was too little too late. The toothpaste was already out of the tube.

 

[Saigon]

What journalism?

It's the Burundi thread, in the Africa section.

 

[rhodescholar]

Again - I am not talking about Detroit, and I see absolutely no resemblance between Palestine in 1930, and the USA in 2012. I doubt you do either.

There is little difference. Large numbers of people from a very different culture move in, speak a different language, and start to change the appearance of the neighborhood, using store signs in their language. The local existing there prior hold enormous resentment against the newcomers, who are buying up large parts of the area and altering it to suit their tastes.

Really not different at all, have seen it a thousand times in neighborhoods in america, europe - even the mideast. Except in the mideast it leads to violence, as the arab muslim does not tolerate others' rights very well, which is why every non-muslim minority in an arab muslim country is under severe repression and even ethnic cleansing.

How can a few jews manage to move onto someone else'e property who vastly outnumbers them - and manage to militarily defeat far larger numbers - over and over, across an entire region?

In the case of my kibbutz, because there were around 200 Jewish settlers, including many from neighbouring kibbutzim settled earlier who came to support the new settlers. They were adequately armed.

And the local arabs weren't? You make them sound like helpless sheep, like the children in qubeir this week.

The opposing Palestinians were few in number (the nearest actual village is Magdal Shams, some 10 kilometres away and up in the hills), poorly armed and neither particularly unified nor organised. The Israelis were better equipped, more disicplined and were usually well dug in by the time villagers realised they were even there.

Few in number? Every pro-arab poster here like to mention how the minority jews were VASTLY outnumbered in the mandate by several times. This is starting to sound like one of those conspiracy theories where jews are 9-feet tall, super powerful, control the media, etc. Still no explanation how a few thousand immigrating jews could overpower the local arabs, their british protectors, AND the arab soldiers operating in the mandate.

The REAL story: the jews came in and started buying land, or moving onto unclaimed areas, and applied advanced farming techniques to cultivate the soil. Lots of arabs moved onto the farms as workers, and once they reached a large enough mass in the area - began agitating to get rid of the jews - the same exact process they are applying in cities in europe, US, and across the mideast.

 

[rhodescholar]

The objective of these settlements was to seize control of land that had been officially purchased by the KKL-JNF

This proves my claims nicely, thanks.

The only thing missing from this article is the fact that the land purchases and settlements did not always match up. Settlers often occupied more land than had been purchased, or eve different land from that which had been purchased.

No where does it talk about enormous differences. People build over their property all the time - and does war break out?

You still have never addressed why if arab muslims felt aggrieved did not try diplomacy/negotiations to resolve the issues.

 

[rhodescholar]

]It also led to the re-organization and development of the Jewish paramilitary organization, the Haganah, which later became the nucleus of the Israel Defense Forces.

What's interesting is that the pro-arabs will take no responsibility for their actions that caused the jews to form militias to protect themselves. Had the arabs not attacked jews from the early 1900s forward, there would probably have never even been a movement to form militias, or create a sovereign state.

It was the very arabs themselves who forced the jews to recognize - well before the holocaust cemented the idea - that the creation of israel was a must.