Apparently I've got a bad reputation

[Powerman]

please forgive me for not being able to read your mind ..... the bible i have read does not portray god as vengeful..... they bible i have read tells of things where there are consequences to actions .... same as real life ..... there are olde laws made by governments that are not just .... does that mean new ones can not be made by those governments ..... you seem very convinced and set in your ways .... if you change .... will those that knew you before call you stupid and primitive and savage ..... unlikley ... they will comend you for your growth .... and if they do not ....will you condemn them?

I might as well be talking to a wall. The point is if God is infallible then their would have never been any unjust laws since God was the alleged creator of them.

 

[no1tovote4]

First of all, Shechem raped the girl:

http://bible.gospelcom.net/passage/?book_id=1&chapter=34&verse=2&version=31&context=verse

Genesis 34:2 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)
Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society


2 When Shechem son of Hamor the Hivite, the ruler of that area, saw her, he took her and violated her

Secondly,

When Jacob found what they had done he had this to say:

30 Then Jacob said to Simeon and Levi, "You have brought trouble on me by making me a stench to the Canaanites and Perizzites, the people living in this land. We are few in number, and if they join forces against me and attack me, I and my household will be destroyed."

It becomes clear that the lesson is that Vengeance should have been God's and not Jacob's brother's when it is taken in context.

God then orders them to throw their false gods down and move elsewhere...

 

[manu1959]

I might as well be talking to a wall. The point is if God is infallible then their would have never been any unjust laws since God was the alleged creator of them.

last i checked god did not write the bible nor did god write the laws.... men did .... god showed them that they were wrong and man amended their ways ..... well at least some men did .... oh and that is Mr. Wall to you ....

 

[Powerman]

First of all, Shechem raped the girl:

http://bible.gospelcom.net/passage/?book_id=1&chapter=34&verse=2&version=31&context=verse

Genesis 34:2 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)
Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society


2 When Shechem son of Hamor the Hivite, the ruler of that area, saw her, he took her and violated her

Secondly,

When Jacob found what they had done he had this to say:

30 Then Jacob said to Simeon and Levi, "You have brought trouble on me by making me a stench to the Canaanites and Perizzites, the people living in this land. We are few in number, and if they join forces against me and attack me, I and my household will be destroyed."

It becomes clear that the lesson is that Vengeance should have been God's and not Jacob's brother's when it is taken in context.

God then orders them to throw their false gods down and move elsewhere...

So I suppose the proper punishment for rape is to kill everyone in their country after signing a treaty with them? What the fuck?

 

[Powerman]

last i checked god did not write the bible nor did god write the laws.... men did .... god showed them that they were wrong and man amended their ways ..... well at least some men did .... oh and that is Mr. Wall to you ....

I can respect that view. I agree with you there. I guess if the shoe fits I'm talking to the people that say that it is the inspired word of God. God wouldn't command people to write such an absurd and stupid fallible book.

 

[no1tovote4]

So I suppose the proper punishment for rape is to kill everyone in their country after signing a treaty with them? What the fuck?

No, the point was that the vengeance should have been the Lord's rather than making them fugitives running in fear from the people that they lived among. Once again, you take only the first part of the post, don't read the entire thing, throw out an absurdity, then call that an argument.

Once again, logical fallacy. This logical folly is called Reductio Ad Absurdum. It happens when one takes only part of the context and reduces it to an absurdity attempting to buttress a weak argument.

 

[Gunny]

Apparently you don't understand the way I think. I don't think that they wrote the books or passed down the stories for the sake of good only. They weren't "evil" as you call it. They were just stupid primitive savages like most others of their time. They made up the idea of a vengeful God as a fear tactic to get people to do what they told them to do. Not all of the old laws are anything any Christian would now consider just. It wasn't until the 10 commandments that things really took a positive term for them morally. The new testament provides much more positive morals as well but everything before the 10 commandments in the bible is immoral trash for the most part.

I'm trying to get your point, but don't. The Bible is as much a history of the Hebrew people during that period of time as it is anything else. They appear to have been no better or worse than anyone else.

We are an advanced civilation, and possess more knowledge at our fingertips than at any point in Mankind's history. Why are you judging people who lived by the rules of their day, by today's standard?

As for your original post, IMO, your rep isn't because you take issue with Christianity, but because you post thread after thread about your taking issue with Christianity.

 

[LuvRPgrl]

They can't be any worse than the damn Hebrews.

Why did you ignore my question?
If you do know, why not just say so.
If you dont, then the above statement tells us only one thing, well two, you are arrogant and full of bitterness. Neither leads to a discovery of truth or happiness.

 

[LuvRPgrl]

You called me an anti-semite. I think it should be permissible for me to call you something that ISN'T derogatory.

NO ! She asked you. Did you miss the "?"????

 

[LuvRPgrl]

I can respect that view. I agree with you there. I guess if the shoe fits I'm talking to the people that say that it is the inspired word of God. God wouldn't command people to write such an absurd and stupid fallible book.

The Bible includes history. The Hebrews were at that time not doing much better than others in many ways. God wanted that to change, he chose them to be the carriers of His law. He then gave them the law. Please be specific in what laws God commanded that seem absurd to you, or evil.

His ordering the genocide of those people is because they were a thouroughly wicked people, worshipping other gods, commiting infanticide, human sacrafices, and worshipping evil acts. God did not want that infecting the Hebrews. Hence, he ordered the genocide of them.

Since God created them, He alone has the right to command they all be killed.

However, killing off all those people wasnt really a big deal as far as Im concerned. I dont even view death to anybody as a big deal. A death is a big deal to the loved ones survivors however. For example, when someone says, "its such a shame, he was so young and had so much to live for" THE DEAD PERSON D0ESNT KNOW THE DIFFERENCE. Its his survivors who suffer. Unless you believe in an afterlife, then he would know, but if he is in heaven, he is actually better off. Even if he is in hell, its of little consequence, eternity is a long time, and the time we spend on this earth will wind up looking like less than a drop of water in the Pacific ocean. Currently, that drop is all we have to look at, so it seems big, we are ants compared to it, yet in time we will realize how petty it is, the length of time that is.

Another way to view that is how kids react to pain. When pulling splinters from my kids, they "freak " out. The immediate moment of pain seems like an eternity to them, yet when its all over, they realize it wasnt such a big deal at all.

Another thing I came to realize about "time" lengths. We only seem to understand a length of time if we have experienced that length of time. In other words, little kids cant conceive how long 25 years is. As we get older, our time experiences become longer, and hence we are able to conceive just how long a length of time is. Young adults have a hard time thinking old age will ever really come. But once you hit middle age, it all becomes very , very real.

 

[Bonnie]

No. I like Jews. I dated one for a while actually. My point is in those times everyone was stupid and primitive and barbaric. Why you would think that they were morally superior than other cultures is beyond me. You always here about the other people in the bible being "wicked." What could they possibly be doing that would be worse than what the Israelites did? Genocide is about as bad as at gets sweetheart.

In this thread you are harkening back to The book of Genesis....Most Christians refer only to the books of Mathew, Luke, Mark, & John which reveal the words of Christ and are mostly about love, forgiveness, sacrifice etc.

Before Christ came people were for the most part barbaric because they were not enlightened or saved by Christ and his one commandment.

The Jews to this day spend their whole lives reading and interpreting and discussing their bible.

If you look at the ten commandments they make sense. If one were to live by them their lives would be much less complicated and unhappy. There is nothing barbaric or evil in them which is what most Jews and Christians try to live their lives by. Christians try to live by one commandment which is love God with your whole heart and soul becasue when you do that you automatically obey the original ten.

Religion itself is only as good as those who practice it. Are all priests evil because a few have sinned greatly? Of course not nor does the actions of a few invalidate Christ's word. The fact that witch trials happened in Europe is tragic yes but it still has no bearing on my faith. And if you want to talk barbaric you only need to look at Islam

You really seem to be reaching here for a reason to not want to believe or have faith... To each his own I guess

 

[Powerman]

In this thread you are harkening back to The book of Genesis....Most Christians refer only to the books of Mathew, Luke, Mark, & John which reveal the words of Christ and are mostly about love, forgiveness, sacrifice etc.

Before Christ came people were for the most part barbaric because they were not enlightened or saved by Christ and his one commandment.

The Jews to this day spend their whole lives reading and interpreting and discussing their bible.

If you look at the ten commandments they make sense. If one were to live by them their lives would be much less complicated and unhappy. There is nothing barbaric or evil in them which is what most Jews and Christians try to live their lives by. Christians try to live by one commandment which is love God with your whole heart and soul becasue when you do that you automatically obey the original ten.

Religion itself is only as good as those who practice it. Are all priests evil because a few have sinned greatly? Of course not nor does the actions of a few invalidate Christ's word. The fact that witch trials happened in Europe is tragic yes but it still has no bearing on my faith. And if you want to talk barbaric you only need to look at Islam

You really seem to be reaching here for a reason to not want to believe or have faith... To each his own I guess

Christians still believe in the old testament though. If they didn't it wouldn't be part of the bible and the extremists wouldn't be trying to teach junk science in schools.

 

[dmp]

extremists wouldn't be trying to teach junk science in schools.

Hrm....at the risk of taking this thread miles from here...what do you THINK is happening with teachers 'preaching' macro evolution to kids today? lol...Talk about 'junk science'.


I still would like to understand the reason behind your hatred of Christianity.

 

[Powerman]

Hrm....at the risk of taking this thread miles from here...what do you THINK is happening with teachers 'preaching' macro evolution to kids today? lol...Talk about 'junk science'.


I still would like to understand the reason behind your hatred of Christianity.

The theory of evolution is widely accepted by scientists today. Did you know that intelligent design isn't even considered a science? It doesn't even involve the scientific method. It's not even worth of being called junk science because it isn't science. By the way the correct term is speciation. Macroevolution is just a made up phrase that people who know nothing of science toss around. There have been several observed instances of speciation or macroevolution as you like to call it. If you would do a google search on macroevolution you would probably find nothing but junk science websites claiming that it never happened but if you looked up the term speciation which is the correct scientific word then you would find that there have been plenty of observed instances of speciation. Don't try to flex intellectual with me on the science. Evolution is on par with gravity in the scientific community. You might not like the fact but it is true.

 

[dmp]

Did you know that intelligent design isn't even considered a science? It doesn't even involve the scientific method.

If that's your litmus test of validity, you must agree Evolution isn't valid, either, as macro evolution cannot be observed nor can experimentation happen to verify the accuracy or inaccuracy of the hypothesis.

 

[Powerman]

If that's your litmus test of validity, you must agree Evolution isn't valid, either, as macro evolution cannot be observed nor can experimentation happen to verify the accuracy or inaccuracy of the hypothesis.

It has been observed. I can produce documentation of such events. Right now I need to get going but I'll be on later tonight. Just google examples of speciation. Or go to talkorigins.com and read up on it. By the way I just started another thread that you might like to read. We'll discuss later.