Apologists For Islam And History

Discussion in 'Religion and Ethics' started by American_Jihad, Mar 24, 2016.

  1. American_Jihad
    Offline

    American_Jihad Flaming Libs/Koranimals

    Joined:
    May 1, 2012
    Messages:
    11,529
    Thanks Received:
    3,679
    Trophy Points:
    350
    Location:
    Gulf of Mex 26.609, -82.220
    Ratings:
    +7,050
    Obama, story telling again...
    Apologists For Islam And History
    Once again, Obama skips over a few important details.
    March 24, 2016
    Hugh Fitzgerald
    [​IMG]

    Apologists for Islam are a varied bunch – some reveal ignorance, others deploy deliberate taqiyya – but all play fast and loose with history.

    Here are three examples:

    Karen Armstrong on the Expulsion of the Moors

    In 1492, the year that is often said to inaugurate the modern era, three very important events happened in Spain. In January, the Catholic monarchs Ferdinand and Isabella conquered the city of Granada, the last Muslim stronghold in Europe; later, Muslims were given the choice of conversion to Christianity or exile. In March, the Jews of Spain were also forced to choose between baptism and deportation. Finally, in August, Christopher Columbus, a Jewish convert to Catholicism and a protégé of Ferdinand and Isabella, crossed the Atlantic and discovered the West Indies. One of his objectives had been to find a new route to India, where Christians could establish a military base for another crusade against Islam. As they sailed into the new world, western people carried a complex burden of prejudice that was central to their identity.

    In 1492, “the Catholic monarchs conquered Granada, the last Muslim stronghold in Europe.” What then should we call all those lands in southern and eastern Europe that the Ottomans were at that very moment busy conquering and seizing, including Constantinople, the richest, most populous, most important city in all of Christendom for 800 years (taken by the Turks on a Tuesday – May 29, 1453), and the Balkans (including the then-vast Serbian lands)? And what are modern-day Albania, Greece, Rumania, Bulgaria? The Ottomans continued to press northward and westward, later seizing much of Hungary and threatening Vienna twice. Were these not parts of Europe, and was not a good deal of Europe, including what had been its most important city for a millennium, Constantinople, firmly in Muslim hands before Granada fell – and after?

    But it would not do to remind readers that while the Muslim invaders and conquerors of Spain lost their last “stronghold” in Granada, other Muslim invaders and conquerors were busy at the other end of Europe, seizing lands and subjugating the native populations to the devshirme (the forced levy of Christian children) as well as to the jizya (the tax on non-Muslims) and all the other disabilities that, wherever Muslims conquered, were imposed, as part of a clearly elaborated system, and not merely the whim a ruler, on all non-Muslims.

    ...

    Barack Obama on Jefferson’s “Iftar Dinner” and Muslims In America

    “The first Muslim ambassador to the United States, from Tunisia, was hosted by President Jefferson, who arranged a sunset dinner for his guest because it was Ramadan — making it the first known iftar at the White House, more than 200 years ago.” — Barack Obama, speaking on August 14, 2010, at the “Annual Iftar Dinner” at the White House

    Really? Is that what happened? Was there a “first known Iftar at the White House” given by none other than President Thomas Jefferson for the “first Muslim ambassador to the United States”? That’s what Barack Obama and his dutiful speechwriters told the Muslims in attendance at what was billed as the “Annual Iftar Dinner,” knowing full well that the remarks would be published for all Americans to see. Apparently Obama, and those who helped write this speech for him, and others still who vetted it, found nothing wrong with attempting, as part of the administration’s policy of both trying to win Muslim hearts and Muslim minds and to convince Americans that Islam has always been part of America’s history, to misrepresent that history. For the dinner Jefferson gave was not intended to be an Iftar dinner, and his guest that evening was not “the first Muslim ambassador…. from Tunisia,” but in using such words, Obama was engaged in a little nunc pro tunc backdating, so that the Iftar dinner that he gave in 2010 could be presented as part of a supposed tradition of such presidential Iftar dinners, going all the way back to the time of Jefferson.

    But before explaining what that “first Iftar dinner” really was, let’s go back to an earlier but even more egregious example of Obama’s rewriting: the speech he delivered in Cairo on June 4, 2009. In that speech, he described Islam and America sharing basic principles:

    I’ve come here to Cairo to seek a new beginning between the United States and Muslims around the world, one based on mutual interest and mutual respect, and one based upon the truth that America and Islam are not exclusive and need not be in competition. Instead, they overlap, and share common principles — principles of justice and progress; tolerance and the dignity of all human beings.

    And then for his Muslim guests he segued into a flattering lesson in History. First he described Western Civ., which, he said, owed so much of its development to Islam:

    As a student of history, I also know civilization’s debt to Islam. It was Islam — at places like Al-Azhar — that carried the light of learning through so many centuries, paving the way for Europe’s Renaissance and Enlightenment. It was innovation in Muslim communities — (applause) — it was innovation in Muslim communities that developed the order of algebra; our magnetic compass and tools of navigation; our mastery of pens and printing; our understanding of how disease spreads and how it can be healed. Islamic culture has given us majestic arches and soaring spires; timeless poetry and cherished music; elegant calligraphy and places of peaceful contemplation. And throughout history, Islam has demonstrated through words and deeds the possibilities of religious tolerance and racial equality. (Applause.)

    And Islam played — according to Obama — a significant role in American history, too:

    I also know that Islam has always been a part of America’s story. The first nation to recognize my country was Morocco. In signing the Treaty of Tripoli in 1796, our second President, John Adams, wrote, “The United States has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion or tranquility of Muslims.” And since our founding, American Muslims have enriched the United States. They have fought in our wars, they have served in our government, they have stood for civil rights, they have started businesses, they have taught at our universities, they’ve excelled in our sports arenas, they’ve won Nobel Prizes, built our tallest building, and lit the Olympic Torch. And when the first Muslim American was recently elected to Congress, he took the oath to defend our Constitution using the same Holy Koran that one of our Founding Fathers — Thomas Jefferson — kept in his personal library. (Applause.)

    We could go through those paragraphs accompanied by such keen students of history as Gibbon, John Quincy Adams, Jacob Burckhardt, and Winston Churchill, all of whom had occasion to study and comment upon Islam, their remarks rebutting proleptically Obama’s vaporings with their much more informed and sober take on the faith — but that is for another occasion. We can note, however, that when Obama in his Cairo speech talks about “the light of learning” being held aloft at places like Al-Azhar, he misstates: some Greek texts were translated into Arabic and thereby “kept alive” instead of being lost to history, but the translators were mostly Arabic-speaking Christians and Jews, not Muslims, and the work of translation went on not at Al-Azhar but at the courts of Cordoba and Baghdad. The word “algebra” is certainly Arab, but algebra itself was a product of Sanskrit mathematicians. The printing press was not a Muslim invention, and its use was accepted in the Muslim East only long after it had been in use in Western Christendom. Indeed, in Islam itself the very notion of innovation, or bida, is frowned upon, and not only, as some Muslim apologists have claimed, in theological matters. And so on.

    I also know that Islam has always been a part of America’s story. The first nation to recognize my country was Morocco. I also know that Islam has always been a part of America’s story. The first nation to recognize my country was Morocco.

    The picture Obama paints by implication, of Muslims being deeply involved in the grand sweep of American history practically from the time of the Framers (at least he didn’t make the mistake of the State Department flunky who claimed Muslims accompanied Columbus on his voyages) is simply false. The first mosque in North America was a one-room affair in 1929; the second mosque was not built until 1934. The first Muslim to be elected to Congress was Keith Ellison, less than a decade ago. The Muslim appearance in America is very late. As for Morocco being the first country to recognize the United States in a treaty, Morocco also soon violated that very treaty and became the first country to go to war with the young Republic. That is something Obama’s advisers may not have told him.

    ... (Long article)

    Apologists For Islam And History
     
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  2. Agit8r
    Offline

    Agit8r Gold Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2010
    Messages:
    9,161
    Thanks Received:
    1,057
    Trophy Points:
    245
    Ratings:
    +3,195
    The easiest way to not constantly look like a fool, is to check your facts:
    Tunisian Envoy | Thomas Jefferson's Monticello

    .
     
  3. American_Jihad
    Offline

    American_Jihad Flaming Libs/Koranimals

    Joined:
    May 1, 2012
    Messages:
    11,529
    Thanks Received:
    3,679
    Trophy Points:
    350
    Location:
    Gulf of Mex 26.609, -82.220
    Ratings:
    +7,050
    I don't have time to check every article, your doing a good job and you can check all my posts, and if you want to argue email the author, carry on...
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  4. Agit8r
    Offline

    Agit8r Gold Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2010
    Messages:
    9,161
    Thanks Received:
    1,057
    Trophy Points:
    245
    Ratings:
    +3,195
    Another fun tidbit from the Monticello entry:


     
  5. American_Jihad
    Offline

    American_Jihad Flaming Libs/Koranimals

    Joined:
    May 1, 2012
    Messages:
    11,529
    Thanks Received:
    3,679
    Trophy Points:
    350
    Location:
    Gulf of Mex 26.609, -82.220
    Ratings:
    +7,050
    Auto correct for spelling has put you guys out of business so now your left with tidbits...
    :crybaby:
     
  6. Agit8r
    Offline

    Agit8r Gold Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2010
    Messages:
    9,161
    Thanks Received:
    1,057
    Trophy Points:
    245
    Ratings:
    +3,195
    I wonder where they found these concubines... :eusa_whistle:
     
  7. frigidweirdo
    Offline

    frigidweirdo Platinum Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2014
    Messages:
    32,241
    Thanks Received:
    3,221
    Trophy Points:
    1,130
    Ratings:
    +13,479
    The problem is, there are people, many of them refuse to read text that is more than one or two sentences long, and then they go around accusing people of being apologists for Islam in the same way they called people Commies in the Cold War.

    It's an attack, pure and simple.

    I got called an apologist for Islam the other day, and it's not the first time.

    Did I apologize for people attacking others? No, I didn't. So, how then is it possible that people call me this?

    Simple, it's just another insult, a way of avoiding history and the truth about what Islam actually is.

    yes, there are radical elements in Islam, just as there are in Christianity (and you bring up Christianity and they'll attack you again), but the vast majority of Muslims aren't radical, they aren't going to blow you up.

    Saying this is somehow apologizing for those who did blow people up.

    Kind of like seeing an Apple and calling it a Ghost.
     
  8. irosie91
    Offline

    irosie91 Diamond Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2012
    Messages:
    61,917
    Thanks Received:
    4,694
    Trophy Points:
    1,815
    Ratings:
    +18,485
    the statement that the majority of muslims are not about to blow anyone up is
    absolutely true just as it is true that the majority of people who supported Adolf
    Hitler in the 1930s were not about to shove anyone into a gas chamber. It is also
    true that if Adolf Hitler did not have popular support in Germany----he would not
    have been successful in committing genocide. It is also true that if the majority of muslims opposed Shariah law and oppression of non muslims------muslims would not have been able to genocide hundreds of millions of people out of existence over the past 1400 years. Today----terrorism has sufficient support of VERY LARGE numbers of muslims in the world-----making it very possible. Adulation of terrorists and support of terrorism amongst muslims is no more a "RADICAL" idea than was chattel
    slavery of blacks a "RADICAL" idea in pre civil war southern USA
     
  9. frigidweirdo
    Offline

    frigidweirdo Platinum Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2014
    Messages:
    32,241
    Thanks Received:
    3,221
    Trophy Points:
    1,130
    Ratings:
    +13,479
    So.. what's your point?

    I could also point to truths about the US. The majority of Americans supported the invasion of Iraq, they support warmongering as a policy. They think it's great that they are "great" somehow thinking that warmongering makes a country great, it did under Genghis Khan, but in the modern world, some people think otherwise.

    And where does that get us?

    The point is, if you create fear and you create anger, then you will get fear and you will get anger. Anger leads to people killing each other, fear leads to people rolling over to allow rights to be taken away.
     
  10. Agit8r
    Offline

    Agit8r Gold Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2010
    Messages:
    9,161
    Thanks Received:
    1,057
    Trophy Points:
    245
    Ratings:
    +3,195
    Obviously I'm not an apologist for any religion. That said, people of every religion are to be treated equally before the law in a constitutional society.

    "our civil rights have no dependence on our religious opinions any more than our opinions in physics or geometry... it is time enough for the rightful purposes of civil government, for its officers to interfere when principles break out into overt acts against peace and good order"
    -- Thomas Jefferson; from The Virginia Statute for Religious Freedom (1777)
     

Share This Page