Apartheid In The Holy Land

[NATO AIR]

The Honorable Archbishop Desmond Tutu asks Israel a poignant question...

http://www.seruv.org.il/english/article.asp?msgid=76&type=article

Published in "The Guardian", 29 April 2002

In our struggle against apartheid, the great supporters were Jewish people. They almost instinctively had to be on the side of the disenfranchised, of the voiceless ones, fighting injustice, oppression and evil. I have continued to feel strongly with the Jews. I am patron of a Holocaust center in South Africa. I believe Israel has a right to secure borders.

What is not so understandable, not justified, is what it did to another people to guarantee its existence. I've been very deeply distressed in my visit to the Holy Land; it reminded me so much of what happened to us black people in South Africa. I have seen the humiliation of the Palestinians at checkpoints and roadblocks, suffering like us when young white police officers prevented us from moving about.

On one of my visits to the Holy Land I drove to a church with the Anglican bishop in Jerusalem. I could hear tears in his voice as he pointed to Jewish settlements. I thought of the desire of Israelis for security. But what of the Palestinians who have lost their land and homes?

I have experienced Palestinians pointing to what were their homes, now occupied by Jewish Israelis. I was walking with Canon Naim Ateek (the head of the Sabeel Ecumenical Center) in Jerusalem. He pointed and said: "Our home was over there. We were driven out of our home; it is now occupied by Israeli Jews."

My heart aches. I say why are our memories so short. Have our Jewish sisters and brothers forgotten their humiliation? Have they forgotten the collective punishment, the home demolitions, in their own history so soon? Have they turned their backs on their profound and noble religious traditions? Have they forgotten that God cares deeply about the downtrodden?

Israel will never get true security and safety through oppressing another people. A true peace can ultimately be built only on justice. We condemn the violence of suicide bombers, and we condemn the corruption of young minds taught hatred; but we also condemn the violence of military incursions in the occupied lands, and the inhumanity that won't let ambulances reach the injured.

The military action of recent days, I predict with certainty, will not provide the security and peace Israelis want; it will only intensify the hatred.

Israel has three options: revert to the previous stalemated situation; exterminate all Palestinians; or - I hope - to strive for peace based on justice, based on withdrawal from all the occupied territories, and the establishment of a viable Palestinian state on those territories side by side with Israel, both with secure borders.

We in South Africa had a relatively peaceful transition. If our madness could end as it did, it must be possible to do the same everywhere else in the world. If peace could come to South Africa, surely it can come to the Holy Land?

My brother Naim Ateek has said what we used to say: "I am not pro- this people or that. I am pro-justice, pro-freedom. I am anti- injustice, anti-oppression."

But you know as well as I do that, somehow, the Israeli government is placed on a pedestal [in the US], and to criticize it is to be immediately dubbed anti-Semitic, as if the Palestinians were not Semitic. I am not even anti-white, despite the madness of that group. And how did it come about that Israel was collaborating with the apartheid government on security measures?

People are scared in this country [the US]; to say wrong is wrong because the Jewish lobby is powerful - very powerful. Well, so what? For goodness sake, this is God's world! We live in a moral universe. The apartheid government was very powerful, but today it no longer exists. Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, Pinochet, Milosevic, and Idi Amin were all powerful, but in the end they bit the dust.

Injustice and oppression will never prevail. Those who are powerful have to remember the litmus test that God gives to the powerful: what is your treatment of the poor, the hungry, the voiceless? And on the basis of that, God passes judgment.

We should put out a clarion call to the government of the people of Israel, to the Palestinian people and say: peace is possible, peace based on justice is possible. We will do all we can to assist you to achieve this peace, because it is God's dream, and you will be able to live amicably together as sisters and brothers.

Desmond Tutu

 

[dmp]

Mr. Tutu is on Crack Cocaine.

 

[NATO AIR]

Mr. Tutu is on Crack Cocaine.

Morality is a bitch ain't it? Even a substantial number of Israelis feel the same way about this whole mess.

 

[dilloduck]

The media played an important role in exposing South African aparthied to the world. The media chooses to ignore the same tactics when they are used by Israel. Any guesses why?

 

[NATO AIR]

The media played an important role in exposing South African aparthied to the world. The media chooses to ignore the same tactics when they are used by Israel. Any guesses why?

you just asked the forbidden question dillo

 

[dmp]

...except for the fact Israelis are the 'victims' in all of this. Every action they take to protect their right to existance is just fine.


I've said it before: There are few things in life more beautiful than an American-made Apache helicopter, branded with the Star of David, pounding the bajeezus out of some Palestinian-Arab shit hole.

 

[dilloduck]

...except for the fact Israelis are the 'victims' in all of this. Every action they take to protect their right to existance is just fine.


I've said it before: There are few things in life more beautiful than an American-made Apache helicopter, branded with the Star of David, pounding the bajeezus out of some Palestinian-Arab shit hole.

The Israelis are the victims of thier own aparthied policies???? Perhaps you're right--the spiritual consequences of doing evil will surely befall them.

 

[NATO AIR]

...except for the fact Israelis are the 'victims' in all of this. Every action they take to protect their right to existance is just fine.

i think they are victims...victims of a far right extremist settler agenda that is just as much responsible for violence and death as the arab nations and terrorists are. and then these ***** refuse to serve in the IDF... the israeli youth are forced to fight for a bunch of racist, extremist settlers. i feel for the israeli people, they are victims.

they are also victims of terrorism and invasion (in the past). victims now of nuclear threats (iran) and al-queda menace (egypt bombings and daily threats)

so are the palestinians though... they are victims too... and that is something the settlers will never admit or even attempt to fathom.

 

[dmp]

i think they are victims...victims of a far right extremist settler agenda that is just as much responsible for violence and death as the arab nations and terrorists are. and then these ***** refuse to serve in the IDF... the israeli youth are forced to fight for a bunch of racist, extremist settlers. i feel for the israeli people, they are victims.

they are also victims of terrorism and invasion (in the past). victims now of nuclear threats (iran) and al-queda menace (egypt bombings and daily threats)

so are the palestinians though... they are victims too... and that is something the settlers will never admit or even attempt to fathom.

In the battle against palestinian arabs, Israel can do 'no' wrong. I haven't seen them do anything I wouldn't support. When it comes to dealing with terrorists trying to take over their country and their your citizens, they have a free pass to ANY means they deem neccessary.

 

[NATO AIR]

In the battle against palestinian arabs, Israel can do 'no' wrong. I haven't seen them do anything I wouldn't support. When it comes to dealing with terrorists trying to take over their country and their your citizens, they have a free pass to ANY means they deem neccessary.

so uh, shooting kids who throw rocks... that's justified?

 

[dmp]

so uh, shooting kids who throw rocks... that's justified?

...sometimes. 'Kill a terrorist as a kid, before he grows up to kill you' is a valid plan sometimes...and biblical on one account.

 

[dilloduck]

In the battle against palestinian arabs, Israel can do 'no' wrong. I haven't seen them do anything I wouldn't support. When it comes to dealing with terrorists trying to take over their country and their your citizens, they have a free pass to ANY means they deem neccessary.

Amazing--by your standards, the arab refugees represent the largest army in the world !!!!

 

[NATO AIR]

...sometimes. 'Kill a terrorist as a kid, before he grows up to kill you' is a valid plan sometimes...and biblical on one account.

damn man, that's cold. that sounds like the reason the serbs would give for wiping out bosnian kids... "i don't want him to grow up to seek revenge, so i kill him now and wipe the family out"

 

[dilloduck]

...sometimes. 'Kill a terrorist as a kid, before he grows up to kill you' is a valid plan sometimes...and biblical on one account.

=d=----that's the worst thing I have ever heard you say !!!!!!!

 

[dmp]

Don't give me credit - the concept originates from the Babylonians - at one time the most feared nation on the planet. There were teachers in the Old Testament suggesting "Blessed is he who strikes their babies against the stones' - showing how it's better to kill a babylonian while he's small, else that baby will grow up to kill YOU. It makes sense.

 

[NATO AIR]

Don't give me credit - the concept originates from the Babylonians - at one time the most feared nation on the planet. There were teachers in the Old Testament suggesting "Blessed is he who strikes their babies against the stones' - showing how it's better to kill a babylonian while he's small, else that baby will grow up to kill YOU. It makes sense.

it might make sense, but a lot of things do.

it makes sense for sudan to wipe out the tribes of darfur, more land for the arabs and less people in the way of all of the oil fields china wants built

it made sense for serbs to slaughter bosnians, they could create facts on the ground that made it easier for serbs to claim the land

it makes sense to kill a child who witnesses you murder someone

just because it makes sense doesn't make it right,morally, ethically, whatever

for the israeli people to do this is not only morally wrong for them, but for any other society in the world.

the only ones who seem to take this line of thinking are the jihadists, and there are american bombs, missiles and marines to wipe them off the face of the earth forever

 

[dilloduck]

Don't give me credit - the concept originates from the Babylonians - at one time the most feared nation on the planet. There were teachers in the Old Testament suggesting "Blessed is he who strikes their babies against the stones' - showing how it's better to kill a babylonian while he's small, else that baby will grow up to kill YOU. It makes sense.

That's incredibly close to a pro-choice stance----I'm appalled!

 

[dmp]

Let me put forth the following scenario.

If a child is old enough to throw rocks, he'll soon be old enough to shoot guns. Shooting a kid or at a crowd of violent kids with the rubber bullets is the right call.

If soldiers were defending themselves with REAL bullets that'd be a tough 'right' decision too.

Not all 'kids' are innocent.

 

[dmp]

That's incredibly close to a pro-choice stance----I'm appalled!

? Abortion has nothing to do with this.

 

[dilloduck]

? Abortion has nothing to do with this.

Killing children that may be a problem ???????? Cmon =d= !!!!!