AP: Half of U.S. pays no federal income tax

[PatekPhilippe]

Earth to boedicca,

The wealth of the top ten percent has been increasing steadily over the last thirty years. You really need to think about the results of such a huge gap in the distribution of wealth. It is destroying the middle class. We are going to end up like Mexico with two classes of citizens, a few wealthy and the rest poor. We are lagging behind many other countries when it comes to educating our young, and we are making it more and more difficult for the average American to get ahead.

Unless we change our thinking drastically, we are going to find ourselves lagging behind Europe and more importantly, Asia before too long. But keep believing that continuing to increase the wealth of the few is the answer to our problems. Once the middle class is gone, there won't be anyone left to actually buy any goods that we may still produce, so even the wealthy will lose most of their net worth.

How? How does some becoming very wealthy destroy the middle class?

It doesn't...auditor0007 is stuck in DNC talking point mode.

 

[Foxfyre]

i don't work and matt only works part time at a thoughtless job, primarily for the health insurance group rate discount.

we only made $20k in taxable income, for the two of us and live off of that, without going in debt....(hubby is a disabled vet, so he does draw a VA disability check, which is tax free)healthcare benefit costs and 401k and IRA's are monies in addition, but tax sheltered;

we were going to have to pay $114 dollars! hahahahaha! i laugh because at one time we were paying about 23% in income taxes, (before we owned a home and got the mortgage deduction which reduced the tax burden) but that was when we both worked, and made a lot of money...

some income tax credit called make working pay or maybe it was some credit that was for the gvt matching your retirement savings that we ended up getting, but our balance was zero, when all said and done.

i feel no guilt at all, for not paying any income tax on our first 20k once standard deductions were taken....the rich couples DO NOT PAY ANY TAXES on that first 20k they earned either with their standard deductions...
people seem to FORGET THAT!


(we did pay a couple of thousand in SS/Medicare taxes and we did pay $2200 in local/property taxes out of that 20k plus of course sales taxes too, and gas taxes for state and federal) out of what we make, we paid MORE THAN ENOUGH in our total tax percentage of income total)

we own home, no credit card debt, own cars, no student loan debt....no debt of any kind....only reason we can live on so little....but even with us not having a mortgage or debt, it would be impossible for us to pay any more in taxes than we already do on our net income, and survive....

so someone making 20k who does have to pay rent/mortgage and car payment and any credit debt would be in much more dire straights, and CERTAINLY can not afford to pay any additional taxes, like income tax....imho.

You make some valid points here. Because we are winding down our small business and made so little in taxable income in 2009, a 15% flat tax would have cost us more than we paid in income and self employment taxes. It would not have cost us enough more to cost us any necessities of life--so we order hamburgers for a few meals instead of steak or postpone a trip to Branson. That's no biggie; no sacrifice at all.

But because of that, a flat tax would be against our personal self interest, but the benefits would far outweigh any negatives. It would return the government to the people again and remove a lot of ability of our elected leaders to cater to special interests. It would dramatically spur economic growth and prosperity which could not help but improve quality of life for all.

Unlike some of my flat tax supporting friends here, I do support retaining a very few quality of life deductions. Deductions for home mortgage interest and taxes on a primary residence for instance encourages home ownership and thereby promotes a higher quality of life for all. I wouldn't add in the extra house boat, vacation home, and time share though. I favor deductions for charitable contributions provides more ability to help out the less fortunate among us. Such deductions, however, must be uniformly applied to every citizen and not be restricted to any specific demographic.

I simply can't find a downside to encouraging all citizens to have a stake in the process and removing much of the ability for our elected leaders to corrupt the system.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Somehow I think the glow of the Statue of Liberty's torch is diminished by saying...
"give me your tired, your poor and 50% of your paycheck when you find a job..."

I don't think very many people would want to come to the USA and pay for current U.S. citizens to collect Social Security and pay for government run healthcare.

You're talking nonsense.

Back it up.

You premised your response on a rejection of my assertion that there are millions of foreigners who would like to emigrate to the US. Is that your position? That we could not bolster the US population by allowing more immigrants in, because there aren't enough who want to come here?

 

[edthecynic]

Earth to Auditor:

We don't tax wealth - we tax income. People have Already Paid Taxes on the income to accumulate savings and investments. If you want to start a property tax on wealth, then get ready to see the savings of the middle class completely decimated. Taxes aimed at The Rich (like AMT) always end up hurting the mass of taxpayers.

And even America's Hemorrhoid Stuttering LimpTard admits that is wrong in a Capitalistic system.

As Capitalists what we need is a Flat Tax on wealth to REPLACE the income tax.

The Truth About Taxes
August 6, 2007
RUSH: I've told you before: the income tax is designed to keep people like his [Buffett's] secretary from becoming wealthy! There is no "wealth" tax. So this is a big misnomer. ...
But there's no tax on wealth. There is a tax on income, and the tax on income is designed to keep everybody who is not wealthy from getting there.

I'm talking about genuine wealth, not the way Democrats define "rich."

 

[PatekPhilippe]

You're talking nonsense.

Back it up.

You premised your response on a rejection of my assertion that there are millions of foreigners who would like to emigrate to the US. Is that your position? That we could not bolster the US population by allowing more immigrants in, because there aren't enough who want to come here?

You said you want a level playing field when it comes to taxes i.e. no special treatment for kids.
I said that if it came to pass no one would have kids because they couldn't afford them and entitlement programs would break the back of the federal government.
You said we could just bring in millions of immigrants to support our economy.
I said they wouldn't want to come here to work and support a bunch of Americans who only take from the system.

What point are you missing?

 

[Care4all]

i don't work and matt only works part time at a thoughtless job, primarily for the health insurance group rate discount.

we only made $20k in taxable income, for the two of us and live off of that, without going in debt....(hubby is a disabled vet, so he does draw a VA disability check, which is tax free)healthcare benefit costs and 401k and IRA's are monies in addition, but tax sheltered;

we were going to have to pay $114 dollars! hahahahaha! i laugh because at one time we were paying about 23% in income taxes, (before we owned a home and got the mortgage deduction which reduced the tax burden) but that was when we both worked, and made a lot of money...

some income tax credit called make working pay or maybe it was some credit that was for the gvt matching your retirement savings that we ended up getting, but our balance was zero, when all said and done.

i feel no guilt at all, for not paying any income tax on our first 20k once standard deductions were taken....the rich couples DO NOT PAY ANY TAXES on that first 20k they earned either with their standard deductions...
people seem to FORGET THAT!


(we did pay a couple of thousand in SS/Medicare taxes and we did pay $2200 in local/property taxes out of that 20k plus of course sales taxes too, and gas taxes for state and federal) out of what we make, we paid MORE THAN ENOUGH in our total tax percentage of income total)

we own home, no credit card debt, own cars, no student loan debt....no debt of any kind....only reason we can live on so little....but even with us not having a mortgage or debt, it would be impossible for us to pay any more in taxes than we already do on our net income, and survive....

so someone making 20k who does have to pay rent/mortgage and car payment and any credit debt would be in much more dire straights, and CERTAINLY can not afford to pay any additional taxes, like income tax....imho.

You make some valid points here. Because we are winding down our small business and made so little in taxable income in 2009, a 15% flat tax would have cost us more than we paid in income and self employment taxes. It would not have cost us enough more to cost us any necessities of life--so we order hamburgers for a few meals instead of steak or postpone a trip to Branson. That's no biggie; no sacrifice at all.

But because of that, a flat tax would be against our personal self interest, but the benefits would far outweigh any negatives. It would return the government to the people again and remove a lot of ability of our elected leaders to cater to special interests. It would dramatically spur economic growth and prosperity which could not help but improve quality of life for all.

Unlike some of my flat tax supporting friends here, I do support retaining a very few quality of life deductions. Deductions for home mortgage interest and taxes on a primary residence for instance encourages home ownership and thereby promotes a higher quality of life for all. I wouldn't add in the extra house boat, vacation home, and time share though. I favor deductions for charitable contributions provides more ability to help out the less fortunate among us. Such deductions, however, must be uniformly applied to every citizen and not be restricted to any specific demographic.

I simply can't find a downside to encouraging all citizens to have a stake in the process and removing much of the ability for our elected leaders to corrupt the system.

A flat tax, would NOT stop congress from spending on whatever they want...they still control the purse, and there is absolutely nothing that stops congress from just inching up that tax when they want or deem they should.

The same with the Fair tax.... there is still nothing to change things or prevent congress from spending the money on the people with all the bucks that lobbied them with campaign contributions....or on welfare.

Both are just farses, that move the tax burden more on to the poor and middle class, than there is now....

Just think about that....

We paid more in taxes each year for a multitude of years, than matthew and I gross in income now....people go through stages of their life where they pay an awful lot of income tax and then when they wind their lives down they pay very little....

When I began working, I paid very little, if anything, in taxes as well.... I personally think this is how it should be...

I have no problems with the progressive tax, because no one pays more than the other, on their taxable income....the break that is given with standard deductions etc, of about the first 20k of the poor person's income is not taxed, BUT ALSO on the rich person it is not taxed....

the person making 20k is being taxed on that first 20k the same thing the person making 200k is being taxed on that first 20k of taxable income...which is NOTHING....

So you are NOT giving the person making 20k a break that is not given to all others earning taxable income....

People on this board, mostly very young people, or people who pay to have their taxes done....

Act as though the person in the 35% tax bracket is paying 35% in taxes on their first 20k and every dime of their money is taxed at the 35% while the guy only making 20k is getting some special break that the guy in the highest tax bracket did not get, and that is simply NOT TRUE....it is frustrating listening to these people mouth off about taxes when they OBVIOUSLY have never even done them, themselves.

Anyway, hahahahahaha! I got sidetracked on that.... I am not willing to change our tax system to a new system, when the new system will not get to the root of the problem and that is congress spending too much, imo.