Anyone Who Believe the Economy is Getting Better is a FUCKING MORON!

[Paulie]

Companies are deleveraging right now with their decreased revenue. This is better than hiring more people and continuing to borrow to stay in business just so they can give someone a pay check. Those who complain that companies are going out of business seem to be some of the same ones complaining that companies aren't hiring anyone. How much sense does that make?

Someone has to take a hit for this, and those who are unemployed are taking a hit.

At some point, all of this liquidity will enter the economy and businesses will have plenty of money and lesser debt, and will hire again.

Wages will most certainly NOT keep up with the inflation that will ensue though, unless Bernanke somehow manages to pull off this miracle exit strategy he seems to have.

What are your thoughts Toro?

 

[Neubarth]

And how much did unemployment grow?

This little bump is a mirage!

Don't forget that the growth was due to temporary government plans like the cash for clunkers!

Unemployment always continues to rise when GDP initially bounces off the bottom. Why do you expect it to be any different this time?

Most of the GDP was not due to cash for clunkers and the like. It was due primarily from rebounding after the tremendous decline caused by the financial crisis. Once the financial crisis abated, we began to stabilize. This is a financial-induced crisis. When blood was pumped back into the financial crisis, it stabilized the economy.
...

Another collapse is not coming if the US withdraws the stimulus. It may cause us to slide back into recession, but there will not be another collapse unless it comes in the financial system. If there is another collapse in the financial system, then we may get a depression.

TOTAL NONSENSE! Toro, you make me laugh.

There is no economic recovery. Factories are not producing and selling. That is a reality. Look at the numbers.

 

[Paulie]

We just went through a massive delationary collapse Neubarth, and most of the money the Fed created hasn't really hit the economy yet.

With what money AT THIS POINT, do you expect these companies to spend on increased production, and with what money do you expect people to spend on goods and services?

Are you willing to allow time for supply and demand to meet a sufficient equilibrium for growth, or would you rather just keep complaining about how bad it is?

I understand your frustration about the government, but there is at least ONE TRILLION dollars that banks haven't really lent out yet. At some point there will be a lot of extra money to go around, but at what cost? I say major inflation.

 

[Neubarth]

We just went through a massive delationary collapse Neubarth, and most of the money the Fed created hasn't really hit the economy yet.

With what money AT THIS POINT, do you expect these companies to spend on increased production, and with what money do you expect people to spend on goods and services?

Are you willing to allow time for supply and demand to meet a sufficient equilibrium for growth, or would you rather just keep complaining about how bad it is?

I understand your frustration about the government, but there is at least ONE TRILLION dollars that banks haven't really lent out yet. At some point there will be a lot of extra money to go around, but at what cost? I say major inflation.

Right now all I see is major Deflation. On top of that we have not created the markets that would buy our product. Since we are the major manufacturing country in the world, we have to sell product to put people to work (Even in the Service Sector). Outside of the public construction projects that are mostly waiting for implementation, we have done little to make our products competitive in the global arena. With that in mind, we still see astronomical layoffs all across the nation.

You are right. I am impatient. When I see something positive, I'll be happy. So far, nothing.

 

[Toro]

TOTAL NONSENSE! Toro, you make me laugh.

There is no economic recovery. Factories are not producing and selling. That is a reality. Look at the numbers.

Sales per share of the S&P500 is $890, down 10% from the peak.

So of course corporations are producing and selling. It is silly to say otherwise.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

There are a lot of positive economic indicators out there right now.

Lets give it a few months and see if they translate into more jobs created than lost. I know I know i've been saying that for a month now but you really got to give it at least a quater to reflect back into the employment numbers.

Come January if we are still shedding jobs i'll let the hatebeast out on the Obama economic plans .

What positive economic numbers. I addressed that issue several times on this board. I have yet to see any positive economic numbers, only minor variations that the Obama administration keeps on calling green shoots. When those Green Shoots collapse, the Obama administration points to another variation and says THAT is a Green Shoot. When that goes down, they find another green shoot and ballyhoo that.

There ain't no damn green shoots. There is only continued economic malaise.

The decrease in real gross domestic product (GDP) slowed to an annual rate of 1% in the second quarter of 2009, according to a release from the Bureau of Economic Analysis on August 27. That’s a big decrease from the first quarter of 2009, when real GDP, the output of goods and services produced by labor and property located in the United States decreased 6.4%. I know I know its still decreasing but its moving in the right direction.

Housing starts were up for october

The dow is holding over 10,000

There is more too.

Trust me I'm not an O-Bot or a fan of the crap our government has been pulling with tarp, bailouts, and stimulus. I'm just seeing some positive signs that will HOPEFULLY lead to a positive number of jobs created.

 

[Neubarth]

The decrease in real gross domestic product (GDP) slowed to an annual rate of 1% in the second quarter of 2009, according to a release from the Bureau of Economic Analysis on August 27. That’s a big decrease from the first quarter of 2009, when real GDP, the output of goods and services produced by labor and property located in the United States decreased 6.4%. I know I know its still decreasing but its moving in the right direction.

Housing starts were up for october

The dow is holding over 10,000

There is more too.

Trust me I'm not an O-Bot or a fan of the crap our government has been pulling with tarp, bailouts, and stimulus. I'm just seeing some positive signs that will HOPEFULLY lead to a positive number of jobs created.

Housing starts are so far down that any minor fluctuation is insignificant. The DOW is not an economic indicator. It is an indicator of speculation and foolish frenzy, but nothing else.
Right now the DOW is in the greatest P/E bubble in world history.


The GDP numbers are totally influenced by government money that can not be sustained.
If the government could consistently pump Trillions into the economy then the current GDP numbers would have some validity.

Since the government can not keep on pumping the money in, we can not rely on GDP as a valid indicator of the might of the economy.

In that case you look at sales and Durable Good orders to see what is happening with the economy. Minor fluctuations do not count even if the Obama administration calls them Green Shoots. They are still just minor fluctuations like a fish flopping on the pier.