Anybody want to discuss philosophy?

[Wiseacre]

I was wondering if anyone around here was interested in a thread about philosophy. I'm getting a little tired of the wrangling over politics and the economy, and am looking for something a little less emotional. A friend showed me a book that I thought might be interesting; it has over 630 pages, with many potential topics of discussion. Gonna take awhile to work my way through this one. The book is:

Philosophy: An Introduction to the Fine Art of Wondering, by James L. Christian. The original version was written some 40 years ago in the early 70s, the latest is the 11th version written in 2011. You can by it online at various websites but it's expensive, costong over $135 in someplaces. But I'm a cheap bastard, I found a website where I could download the previous version (10th) for free.

file, Download

So, if anyone is interested we can talk about the the hell is going on and why. Note that this is not a thread about religion, I don't give a damn what you believe or don't believe. If you want to offer your views about God, one way or another, feel free. I believe the subject is going to come up anyway sooner or later. But this thread isn't intended to evolve into another pissing contest over whether religion is a bunch of hooey or not. I do hope any who contribute here will respect another's right to their own views.

 

[Wiseacre]

First issue:

The book's 1st chapter offers the statement that mankind has tried to answer the questions about the meaning of life and existence through our religions and philosophies. But in fact we've been supplied with too many answers, and it's very hard to tell what the real truth is. The book when goes on to say and most of our religions and philosophies have concluded that "in the final analysis, life in this world is not worth living". We are expected to carry on, enduring the travails and burdens placed upon us until we die and go to a better place.

" Through the ages, humans have sought clues to life’s meaning through our reli-
gions and philosophies. To date they have given us immense help, but a contempo-
rary overview of humanity’s quest supplies us with a superabundance of answers, so
many answers in fact that we can’t decide among them,and any decision seems arbi-
trary and limited. " Philosophy: An Introduction to the Fine Art of Wondering, by James L. Christian (page 2)

Leaving aside the issue of whether there is in fact a better place (heaven?), do you think life is not worth living? I kind of have a problem with that idea, because it leads to a defeatist attitude and an decreased chance of experiencing the joys and successes that life can bring. Sure, life is full of the slings and arrows of outragious fortune, wrongs done with no justice applied. However, by reaching out to those who are experiencing those trials and tribulations I believe we enrich our own lives, helping each other through the rough spots can be enormously satisfying and rewarding, not to mention maybe getting a helping hand yourself when you need it.

 

[Toro]

Everyone has to believe in something.

I believe I'll have another beer.

 

[Wiseacre]

Everyone has to believe in something.

I believe I'll have another beer.

Profound.

 

[Gideonprime]

First issue:

The book's 1st chapter offers the statement that mankind has tried to answer the questions about the meaning of life and existence through our religions and philosophies. But in fact we've been supplied with too many answers, and it's very hard to tell what the real truth is. The book when goes on to say and most of our religions and philosophies have concluded that "in the final analysis, life in this world is not worth living". We are expected to carry on, enduring the travails and burdens placed upon us until we die and go to a better place.

" Through the ages, humans have sought clues to life’s meaning through our reli-
gions and philosophies. To date they have given us immense help, but a contempo-
rary overview of humanity’s quest supplies us with a superabundance of answers, so
many answers in fact that we can’t decide among them,and any decision seems arbi-
trary and limited. " Philosophy: An Introduction to the Fine Art of Wondering, by James L. Christian (page 2)

Leaving aside the issue of whether there is in fact a better place (heaven?), do you think life is not worth living? I kind of have a problem with that idea, because it leads to a defeatist attitude and an decreased chance of experiencing the joys and successes that life can bring. Sure, life is full of the slings and arrows of outragious fortune, wrongs done with no justice applied. However, by reaching out to those who are experiencing those trials and tribulations I believe we enrich our own lives, helping each other through the rough spots can be enormously satisfying and rewarding, not to mention maybe getting a helping hand yourself when you need it.

I would love to have a discussion on philosphy.

To me yes life is worth living. I'd live 1000 years if I could. More if I could.

If for nothing else than to find out what is next here on planet earth. What might we become as a species.

 

[amrchaos]

First issue:

The book's 1st chapter offers the statement that mankind has tried to answer the questions about the meaning of life and existence through our religions and philosophies. But in fact we've been supplied with too many answers, and it's very hard to tell what the real truth is. The book when goes on to say and most of our religions and philosophies have concluded that "in the final analysis, life in this world is not worth living". We are expected to carry on, enduring the travails and burdens placed upon us until we die and go to a better place.

" Through the ages, humans have sought clues to life’s meaning through our reli-
gions and philosophies. To date they have given us immense help, but a contempo-
rary overview of humanity’s quest supplies us with a superabundance of answers, so
many answers in fact that we can’t decide among them,and any decision seems arbi-
trary and limited. " Philosophy: An Introduction to the Fine Art of Wondering, by James L. Christian (page 2)

Leaving aside the issue of whether there is in fact a better place (heaven?), do you think life is not worth living? I kind of have a problem with that idea, because it leads to a defeatist attitude and an decreased chance of experiencing the joys and successes that life can bring. Sure, life is full of the slings and arrows of outragious fortune, wrongs done with no justice applied. However, by reaching out to those who are experiencing those trials and tribulations I believe we enrich our own lives, helping each other through the rough spots can be enormously satisfying and rewarding, not to mention maybe getting a helping hand yourself when you need it.

I would love to have a discussion on philosphy.

To me yes life is worth living. I'd live 1000 years if I could. More if I could.

If for nothing else than to find out what is next here on planet earth. What might we become as a species.

You may need more than a thousand years to find out..

 

[Gideonprime]

First issue:

The book's 1st chapter offers the statement that mankind has tried to answer the questions about the meaning of life and existence through our religions and philosophies. But in fact we've been supplied with too many answers, and it's very hard to tell what the real truth is. The book when goes on to say and most of our religions and philosophies have concluded that "in the final analysis, life in this world is not worth living". We are expected to carry on, enduring the travails and burdens placed upon us until we die and go to a better place.

" Through the ages, humans have sought clues to life’s meaning through our reli-
gions and philosophies. To date they have given us immense help, but a contempo-
rary overview of humanity’s quest supplies us with a superabundance of answers, so
many answers in fact that we can’t decide among them,and any decision seems arbi-
trary and limited. " Philosophy: An Introduction to the Fine Art of Wondering, by James L. Christian (page 2)

Leaving aside the issue of whether there is in fact a better place (heaven?), do you think life is not worth living? I kind of have a problem with that idea, because it leads to a defeatist attitude and an decreased chance of experiencing the joys and successes that life can bring. Sure, life is full of the slings and arrows of outragious fortune, wrongs done with no justice applied. However, by reaching out to those who are experiencing those trials and tribulations I believe we enrich our own lives, helping each other through the rough spots can be enormously satisfying and rewarding, not to mention maybe getting a helping hand yourself when you need it.

I would love to have a discussion on philosphy.

To me yes life is worth living. I'd live 1000 years if I could. More if I could.

If for nothing else than to find out what is next here on planet earth. What might we become as a species.

You may need more than a thousand years to find out..

Too true which is why I'd enjoy immortality. Sadly I am starting to think I might not get there.

 

[amrchaos]

I would love to have a discussion on philosphy.

To me yes life is worth living. I'd live 1000 years if I could. More if I could.

If for nothing else than to find out what is next here on planet earth. What might we become as a species.

You may need more than a thousand years to find out..

Too true which is why I'd enjoy immortality. Sadly I am starting to think I might not get there.

You would enjoy immortality?

Would you not find existence a little boring after, say, a couple of million years?
That is why I tend to think that if there was a god, God did not create reality in order to love. God would have created this reality because God was bored! Thus the reason we would have life, free will, abundance of ignorance and limited abilities.

 

[Marie888]

I was wondering if anyone around here was interested in a thread about philosophy. I'm getting a little tired of the wrangling over politics and the economy, and am looking for something a little less emotional. A friend showed me a book that I thought might be interesting; it has over 630 pages, with many potential topics of discussion. Gonna take awhile to work my way through this one. The book is:

Philosophy: An Introduction to the Fine Art of Wondering, by James L. Christian. The original version was written some 40 years ago in the early 70s, the latest is the 11th version written in 2011. You can by it online at various websites but it's expensive, costong over $135 in someplaces. But I'm a cheap bastard, I found a website where I could download the previous version (10th) for free.

file, Download

So, if anyone is interested we can talk about the the hell is going on and why. Note that this is not a thread about religion, I don't give a damn what you believe or don't believe. If you want to offer your views about God, one way or another, feel free. I believe the subject is going to come up anyway sooner or later. But this thread isn't intended to evolve into another pissing contest over whether religion is a bunch of hooey or not. I do hope any who contribute here will respect another's right to their own views.

Yeah.. can be interesting. The question of what the hell is going on and why is partially what started me seeking about life.. and sent me on a journey of learning that I believe is the truth of our lives which anyone can tell from my siggy. I didn't grow up learning about God, I went seeking by myself.

So far during my life, one of the many profound sayings that I've found of truth is this:

For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow.

Ecclesiastes 1:18

And I can be as dumb as a box of rocks, lol. Many more of course, but gotta run.
.

 

[Buford]

No matter where ya go, there you are.

 

[Wiseacre]

" Too true which is why I'd enjoy immortality "

Really? Immortality just for you, or everybody? Imagine a world with no death, pretty crowded, no? What would the reference for life be like if no one died? How would we live our lives if the risk of death was not there? How much less would we cherish our relationships after a thousand years?

 

[Gideonprime]

You may need more than a thousand years to find out..

Too true which is why I'd enjoy immortality. Sadly I am starting to think I might not get there.

You would enjoy immortality?

Would you not find existence a little boring after, say, a couple of million years?
That is why I tend to think that if there was a god, God did not create reality in order to love. God would have created this reality because God was bored! Thus the reason we would have life, free will, abundance of ignorance and limited abilities.

Maybe I would but I'm willing to try that out. What might we become in 2 million years? Where might I go? What might I see that I could not imagine. Rememerb there are things billions of years from here. 2 million might seem like a drop in the bucket.

One caveat though . . . I'd like to stop aging. I've got enough aches and pains now, I'd hate to see what I'd feel like at 27,437.

 

[Gideonprime]

" Too true which is why I'd enjoy immortality "

Really? Immortality just for you, or everybody? Imagine a world with no death, pretty crowded, no? What would the reference for life be like if no one died? How would we live our lives if the risk of death was not there? How much less would we cherish our relationships after a thousand years?

ot for everyone. I'm selfish. I'd settle for me. Though I am sure it would get lonely after a while . . . maybe imortality is too much . . . I'd have to see how I felt after my first million years.

 

[amrchaos]

" Too true which is why I'd enjoy immortality "

Really? Immortality just for you, or everybody? Imagine a world with no death, pretty crowded, no? What would the reference for life be like if no one died? How would we live our lives if the risk of death was not there? How much less would we cherish our relationships after a thousand years?

Same questions under the premise we could die. (well, except the one about the world if we could die--since that is the world we live in.)

I don't think death is a major factor in some of the questions you bring up. more like a small factors. Especially in the case of relationships and the overcrowding of the planet(we can die, and the Planet population is steady increasing, for instance)

Of course, I am talking about immortality for everybody--but if it was just for me, I would still find the relation of death to not be a major influence on how I see the world in either or cases. Maybe I need to become immortal first before I can appreciate the difference?

 

[Wiseacre]

" For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow. "

I don't believe that. There are a whole bunch of diseases that do not kill people any more, our increased medical knowledge is surely not a reason for sorrow. Are we worse off for our increased knowledge of electricity and other technologies that has made such a difference in our standard of living? Or advancements in agriculture, transportation, communication?

Do you think it matters what you know? Or is it more a question of what you do with what you know?

 

[Wiseacre]

" Too true which is why I'd enjoy immortality "

Really? Immortality just for you, or everybody? Imagine a world with no death, pretty crowded, no? What would the reference for life be like if no one died? How would we live our lives if the risk of death was not there? How much less would we cherish our relationships after a thousand years?

Same questions under the premise we could die. (well, except the one about the world if we could die--since that is the world we live in.)

I don't think death is a major factor in some of the questions you bring up. more like a small factors. Especially in the case of relationships and the overcrowding of the planet(we can die, and the Planet population is steady increasing, for instance)

Of course, I am talking about immortality for everybody--but if it was just for me, I would still find the relation of death to not be a major influence on how I see the world in either or cases. Maybe I need to become immortal first before I can appreciate the difference?

Just wondering if a few hundred years of living might change your perspective. Especially if your quality of life is not so hot. Might get tired of the squalor and hopelessness if you lived in North Korea for example.

 

[Gideonprime]

" Too true which is why I'd enjoy immortality "

Really? Immortality just for you, or everybody? Imagine a world with no death, pretty crowded, no? What would the reference for life be like if no one died? How would we live our lives if the risk of death was not there? How much less would we cherish our relationships after a thousand years?

Same questions under the premise we could die. (well, except the one about the world if we could die--since that is the world we live in.)

I don't think death is a major factor in some of the questions you bring up. more like a small factors. Especially in the case of relationships and the overcrowding of the planet(we can die, and the Planet population is steady increasing, for instance)

Of course, I am talking about immortality for everybody--but if it was just for me, I would still find the relation of death to not be a major influence on how I see the world in either or cases. Maybe I need to become immortal first before I can appreciate the difference?

Just wondering if a few hundred years of living might change your perspective. Especially if your quality of life is not so hot. Might get tired of the squalor and hopelessness if you lived in North Korea for example.

Very true. If I lived there I might not want to live for a few hundred years. As it is if I stop deteriorating over time, I'd be in for the longest ride I could manage.

Then again maybe I would to see if things get better.

I mean isn;t that what makes living great? What's next. What new thing can a find to appreciate. Mosic, or words or love or the stars int eh sky. Sometimes you hear a joke so many times it ceases to be funny and then you hear it again and it seems fresh and new and you rememebr what was so funny about it in the ifrst place (paraphrasing big fish here).

Who knows what tomorrow brings? Not me but I;d like to be here to see.

 

[Wiseacre]

Same questions under the premise we could die. (well, except the one about the world if we could die--since that is the world we live in.)

I don't think death is a major factor in some of the questions you bring up. more like a small factors. Especially in the case of relationships and the overcrowding of the planet(we can die, and the Planet population is steady increasing, for instance)

Of course, I am talking about immortality for everybody--but if it was just for me, I would still find the relation of death to not be a major influence on how I see the world in either or cases. Maybe I need to become immortal first before I can appreciate the difference?

Just wondering if a few hundred years of living might change your perspective. Especially if your quality of life is not so hot. Might get tired of the squalor and hopelessness if you lived in North Korea for example.

Very true. If I lived there I might not want to live for a few hundred years. As it is if I stop deteriorating over time, I'd be in for the longest ride I could manage.

Then again maybe I would to see if things get better.

I mean isn;t that what makes living great? What's next. What new thing can a find to appreciate. Mosic, or words or love or the stars int eh sky. Sometimes you hear a joke so many times it ceases to be funny and then you hear it again and it seems fresh and new and you rememebr what was so funny about it in the ifrst place (paraphrasing big fish here).

Who knows what tomorrow brings? Not me but I;d like to be here to see.

Thanks for the upper. Hope you never lose the posiitive attitude.

 

[Marie888]

" For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow."

I don't believe that. There are a whole bunch of diseases that do not kill people any more, our increased medical knowledge is surely not a reason for sorrow. Are we worse off for our increased knowledge of electricity and other technologies that has made such a difference in our standard of living? Or advancements in agriculture, transportation, communication?

Do you think it matters what you know? Or is it more a question of what you do with what you know?

Well, that's an excellent question. Also, are we talking "wisdom" .. or... "intelligence or increased knowledge" here?

But since you brought up increased knowledge - maybe we can ponder it more...

For example, the knowledge of a medical doctor would indicate a higher level of intelligence than that of lets say that of a fast food worker. (I'm in no way saying one or the other is "better"; just different roles, different levels of intelligence)

The medical doctor is doing his/her job and makes a mistake; therefore causing a loss of life. Whereas, the fast food drive-in worker makes a mistake and someone gets a Big Mac instead of a Filet O Fish. If we compare the two - what will be the most sorrowful or cause the most pain to someone else or ourselves?

As for our "increased knowledge" as a society; are we sure we are making it "better" than earlier ages? Some offhand examples: Privately owned farms are almost obsolete because of corporate mass production, but yet now we see Whole Food Co-ops booming and/or coming back. Many are going back to organic, but at a higher cost alot of times.

Before we used to live off the land to survive. Yeah, we may have died or suffered with a hard season back then; but nowadays we could also die in a car wreck, plain crash, or bungee jumping. More than that...nowadays we work our full time jobs... and to take a "break" or "vacation" we go "camping, hunting, fishing" for "fun".; or call "gardening" a hobby. I find that comical sometimes.

Yeah, I guess a good question would be.. what is the difference between wisdom and increased knowledge or intelligence.. is there one? Is the difference in your question? (What we "do" with the increased knowledge?).

.

 

[Moonglow]

Everyone has to believe in something.

I believe I'll have another beer.

Profound.

yes, as my pschycology proffessor would say, "enough of this shit, let's go have some bacteria urine".