Antifa Explained

[toobfreak]

Conservatives are mainstream middle class people who work hard and pay taxes and don't cause problems.
They want normal things like law and order, strong national defense, decent culture, low taxes and good schools.
They are not Nazis or the Klan or white supremacist.
Being patriotic is not hate
Controlling immigration is not racism.
Capitalism is not oppression.
The Antifa are brainwashed fanatics who are using violence and hate to push a far left wing agenda.

Post a short list of your personal conservative principles.

Here is one principle:

Beating people is wrong.

Once you have adopted it, perhaps we can continue with the conversation. Indeed, generally people accept this principle before engaging in civilized conversation of any sort. Somehow it did not make it into the list of principles for the "anti-fascists".

No sane person here believes that republicans are pacifists. You ejaculate to the thought of bombing nonwhite nations.

AND ODDLY ENOUGH, my poor demented Sir, isn't it always the Left where all the violence comes from? During the election, was it Trump's fans or Hillary's followers who were always showing up at the other person's rallies to pick fights?

During campaign speeches, was it Hillary's speeches constantly interrupted or was it Donald's?

On college campuses is it the Republicans blocking speakers, rioting and breaking windows or is it the Left?

Nah, see, don't you try to float your headcase of BULL here, Barney, Democrats CAUSE wars (like that silly little JV team of ISIS), then leave it up to the Republicans to come along afterwards and deal with the mess. Just so happens that most of crisis hot spots in the world today are NOT in Europe, etc., and most every other place is, yes, non-white.

If I didn't know better, I'd think the Left DELIBERATELY messed up non-white nations just so they could then try to pin a racism rap on the Republicans trying to get the mess straightened out. But Hey, I'm just surprised you haven't accused Trump of being anti-North Korean and having orchestrated the entire conflict on that Peninsula!

 

[antifa]

Conservatives are mainstream middle class people who work hard and pay taxes and don't cause problems.
They want normal things like law and order, strong national defense, decent culture, low taxes and good schools.
They are not Nazis or the Klan or white supremacist.
Being patriotic is not hate
Controlling immigration is not racism.
Capitalism is not oppression.
The Antifa are brainwashed fanatics who are using violence and hate to push a far left wing agenda.

Post a short list of your personal conservative principles.

Here is one principle:

Beating people is wrong.

Once you have adopted it, perhaps we can continue with the conversation. Indeed, generally people accept this principle before engaging in civilized conversation of any sort. Somehow it did not make it into the list of principles for the "anti-fascists".

No sane person here believes that republicans are pacifists. You ejaculate to the thought of bombing nonwhite nations.

AND ODDLY ENOUGH, my poor demented Sir, isn't it always the Left where all the violence comes from? During the election, was it Trump's fans or Hillary's followers who were always showing up at the other person's rallies to pick fights?

During campaign speeches, was it Hillary's speeches constantly interrupted or was it Donald's?

On college campuses is it the Republicans blocking speakers, rioting and breaking windows or is it the Left?

Nah, see, don't you try to float your headcase of BULL here, Barney, Democrats CAUSE wars (like that silly little JV team of ISIS), then leave it up to the Republicans to come along afterwards and deal with the mess. Just so happens that most of crisis hot spots in the world today are NOT in Europe, etc., and most every other place is, yes, non-white.

If I didn't know better, I'd think the Left DELIBERATELY messed up non-white nations just so they could then try to pin a racism rap on the Republicans trying to get the mess straightened out. But Hey, I'm just surprised you haven't accused Trump of being anti-North Korean and having orchestrated the entire conflict on that Peninsula!

Run to your safespace.

 

[SavannahMann]

The problem is not with videos, or handbooks, or any of that. Plans can be wonderful, and detailed beyond belief. However, the problem comes with implementation. No plan survives implementation, intact.

It is doubtful that any of you idiots would know a Fascist if you were standing and talking to them. That is of course, only one of the problems you face. While denouncing Fasicsm, you have embraced a name from history that is tied to Communism, specifically the Soviet State.

That is like saying that you are forming a secret society to fight racism. This society is going to meet at night, and hide their identities by wearing white sheets and hoods. We shall call this group the Klu Klux Klan, or KKK for short.

Seriously, this is problem number one as far as your group ANTIFA is concerned. You can’t deny that the group was originally formed under the Soviets, and was in fact intended to be used for agitation of the public by Soviet Sympathizers.

So what is a Fascist? Is a Fascist anyone who disagrees with you? Judging from the idiots out there wearing your symbol, yes. Stifling debate is not really a sign of tolerance and a democratic society where the rights of the people are defended. Stifling debate is sort of another type of Authoritarian regime. Oh yes. Socialist where the factories are owned by the State. Or Fascist, where the State Controls the factories owned by loyal members.

What you should do is fire up a new group, without the baggage of history to hold you back. You could call it something awesome. I know. “Help America Live Free And Stay Strong”. Then instead of the Soviet Baggage, you could have a whole new group.

Call it HALFASS for short. Just think, people could look out and see your group coming and just know. “Here comes those HALFASS guys.”

Idiots who see racism or fascism in everything are just as bad as those idiots who blame other races for their issues. If I had the power, I’d fence in a state, and put your idiots on one side, and the other idiots on the other side, and let you two just kill each other. With luck, we would fund it with Pay Per View sales, at least until the last racist is killed by, and killed by the last ANTIFA moron.

 

[Tumblin Tumbleweed]

Conservatives are mainstream middle class people who work hard and pay taxes and don't cause problems.
They want normal things like law and order, strong national defense, decent culture, low taxes and good schools.
They are not Nazis or the Klan or white supremacist.
Being patriotic is not hate
Controlling immigration is not racism.
Capitalism is not oppression.
The Antifa are brainwashed fanatics who are using violence and hate to push a far left wing agenda.

Post a short list of your personal conservative principles.

Here is one principle:

Beating people is wrong.

Once you have adopted it, perhaps we can continue with the conversation. Indeed, generally people accept this principle before engaging in civilized conversation of any sort. Somehow it did not make it into the list of principles for the "anti-fascists".

No sane person here believes that republicans are pacifists. You ejaculate to the thought of bombing nonwhite nations.

That reply just sucks. So juvenile and so full of hyperbole. Why not leave your personal fetishes out of discussions and reply like an adult? The basic idea illustrated was that beating people is wrong. If you won't address this fact, verifiable by simply googling video of people claiming to be affiliated with your 'organization' using said tactics on camera, then you are of no use to the American public.

 

[antifa]

Conservatives are mainstream middle class people who work hard and pay taxes and don't cause problems.
They want normal things like law and order, strong national defense, decent culture, low taxes and good schools.
They are not Nazis or the Klan or white supremacist.
Being patriotic is not hate
Controlling immigration is not racism.
Capitalism is not oppression.
The Antifa are brainwashed fanatics who are using violence and hate to push a far left wing agenda.

Post a short list of your personal conservative principles.

Here is one principle:

Beating people is wrong.

Once you have adopted it, perhaps we can continue with the conversation. Indeed, generally people accept this principle before engaging in civilized conversation of any sort. Somehow it did not make it into the list of principles for the "anti-fascists".

No sane person here believes that republicans are pacifists. You ejaculate to the thought of bombing nonwhite nations.

That reply just sucks. So juvenile and so full of hyperbole. Why not leave your personal fetishes out of discussions and reply like an adult? The basic idea illustrated was that beating people is wrong. If you won't address this fact, verifiable by simply googling video of people claiming to be affiliated with your 'organization' using said tactics on camera, then you are of no use to the American public.

 

[westwall]

Mark Bray wrote the Anti-Fascist Handbook, and does a pretty good job at explaining the evolution of the movement. The video is 26 minute so I only expect one of you to watch it. The rest of you will remain ignorant, yet continue to post as if you know what we are about.

Based on behavior you are the new Sturm Abteilung. Sooooo, you seem to be pretty fascist to me.... Just sayin...

 

[antifa]

Mark Bray wrote the Anti-Fascist Handbook, and does a pretty good job at explaining the evolution of the movement. The video is 26 minute so I only expect one of you to watch it. The rest of you will remain ignorant, yet continue to post as if you know what we are about.

Based on behavior you are the new Sturm Abteilung. Sooooo, you seem to be pretty fascist to me.... Just sayin...

I'm not the one playing hall monitor on a message board.

 

[westwall]

Mark Bray wrote the Anti-Fascist Handbook, and does a pretty good job at explaining the evolution of the movement. The video is 26 minute so I only expect one of you to watch it. The rest of you will remain ignorant, yet continue to post as if you know what we are about.

Based on behavior you are the new Sturm Abteilung. Sooooo, you seem to be pretty fascist to me.... Just sayin...

I'm not the one playing hall monitor on a message board.

Neither am I. However, when you attack people for nothing other than attending a political rally that you don't happen to agree with, that IS fascist.

 

[antifa]

Mark Bray wrote the Anti-Fascist Handbook, and does a pretty good job at explaining the evolution of the movement. The video is 26 minute so I only expect one of you to watch it. The rest of you will remain ignorant, yet continue to post as if you know what we are about.

Based on behavior you are the new Sturm Abteilung. Sooooo, you seem to be pretty fascist to me.... Just sayin...

I'm not the one playing hall monitor on a message board.

Neither am I. However, when you attack people for nothing other than attending a political rally that you don't happen to agree with, that IS fascist.

When you become a mod it's to have power over other people.

 

[Norman]

Mark Bray wrote the Anti-Fascist Handbook, and does a pretty good job at explaining the evolution of the movement. The video is 26 minute so I only expect one of you to watch it. The rest of you will remain ignorant, yet continue to post as if you know what we are about.

Based on behavior you are the new Sturm Abteilung. Sooooo, you seem to be pretty fascist to me.... Just sayin...

I'm not the one playing hall monitor on a message board.

Neither am I. However, when you attack people for nothing other than attending a political rally that you don't happen to agree with, that IS fascist.

When you become a mod it's to have power over other people.

Yes! Yes! Bring over the communist utopia. No mods, and we will all be talking about free viagra all day. What an oppressor that guy is for doing buttloads of work for no earnings.

 

[westwall]

Mark Bray wrote the Anti-Fascist Handbook, and does a pretty good job at explaining the evolution of the movement. The video is 26 minute so I only expect one of you to watch it. The rest of you will remain ignorant, yet continue to post as if you know what we are about.

Based on behavior you are the new Sturm Abteilung. Sooooo, you seem to be pretty fascist to me.... Just sayin...

I'm not the one playing hall monitor on a message board.

Neither am I. However, when you attack people for nothing other than attending a political rally that you don't happen to agree with, that IS fascist.

When you become a mod it's to have power over other people.

Yep, I love lording it over people. I take particular pleasure in abusing small dogs and kittens too!

 

[antifa]

Mark Bray wrote the Anti-Fascist Handbook, and does a pretty good job at explaining the evolution of the movement. The video is 26 minute so I only expect one of you to watch it. The rest of you will remain ignorant, yet continue to post as if you know what we are about.

Based on behavior you are the new Sturm Abteilung. Sooooo, you seem to be pretty fascist to me.... Just sayin...

I'm not the one playing hall monitor on a message board.

Neither am I. However, when you attack people for nothing other than attending a political rally that you don't happen to agree with, that IS fascist.

When you become a mod it's to have power over other people.

Yep, I love lording it over people. I take particular pleasure in abusing small dogs and kittens too!

Some people have something to say and some become mods.

 

[SobieskiSavedEurope]

Not all Fascists are racist.

The Founding Father of Fascism Mussolini wasn't really a Racist.

 

[SobieskiSavedEurope]

Mark Bray wrote the Anti-Fascist Handbook, and does a pretty good job at explaining the evolution of the movement. The video is 26 minute so I only expect one of you to watch it. The rest of you will remain ignorant, yet continue to post as if you know what we are about.

Mark Bray wrote the Anti-Fascist Handbook, and does a pretty good job at explaining the evolution of the movement. The video is 26 minute so I only expect one of you to watch it. The rest of you will remain ignorant, yet continue to post as if you know what we are about.

Hi member antifa and thanks for posting this.

I relate more to the views expressed by Chris Hedges in this video
but at least understand the Antifa purpose in that context.

I have experience working with both approaches within the Occupy
movement, and the peace and justice community where this issue
came up with the Revolutionary Workers and the Food Not Bombs
and Anti Racist Action as well as La Raza and other groups that
weren't opposed to using violence in protests against war and
global oppression. I share more of Chris Hedges views that
the greater goal IS to reach out and break down the barriers, and
form alliances by making allies within the very ranks being protested and opposed
in order to effect real change. But Mark Bray made it clear that part of the
process is not the goal of Antifa but to protest, target and stop small
groups at the start before they can mobilize into larger movements.

my criticisms of this are pretty much along the lines that Hedges expressed.

What I will say about Antifa
1. even after watching this video that explains their reasons for protest,
it still comes across to me as white men enlisting others to fight turf wars using the
same race baiting tactics against the opposite side. I find the real minorities who are
truly oppressed have needs that are met by working to solve problems across racial,
class and party lines. So although this protests serve a purpose to publicize and
protest problems, like Hedges also stated it doesn't serve to solve the actual problems.

2. in fact, I believe similar to Hedges criticism that these violent protests serve
to strengthen and embolden the very opposition they seek to strike fear and shame into.
Instead like Hedges said, because this doesn't make a dent in the real power structure,
those in power merely exploit these protests to empower more opposition to the opponents,
by demeaning and belittling and discrediting the groups due to violence and other criticisms of methods.
In addition to what Hedges says, I would say that these tactics REINFORCE the "white power"
tactics of divide and conquer and "fear based" politics, that merely keep those people in power further.

What I wish that more people did instead was adopt the tactic where the "greedy people in power"
will set aside their differences and commit to work together to achieve goals that benefit them anyway.
If the activists adopted THAT tactic and found ways to work together, then that would be fighting
fire with fire and beating people at their own game. Instead, taking the opposite path of
divide and conquer by fear based bullying and attacks is playing into the game of remaining
disempowered while those in control play one side against the other and still win regardless.

3. third is I don't see the connection between "people fighting against Nazi Hitler holocaust in Germany"
with antifa protests blaming White Supremacists or Nationalists in America at rallies or protests.
Instead this comes across as trying to silence free speech because the people speaking
at these White Unite the Right rallies are NOT the same as Nazi's having committed genocidal holocausts.

One group is actually fighting in defense against the actual armies and offenders doing the attacks.
The other is trying to do "preemptive" strikes at the point where people are exercising free speech and
haven't been proven to commit any race based attacks or lynchings much less genocidal acts that require physical defense.

Again, I understand Mark's explanation that the point is not to wait for the attacks to get to the point of unstoppable violence that can't be defended against. But if someone is committed offense by their speech, they should be answered
at the same level, so this dialogue should be open and civilized, not set up to fail by waging attacks on each other.

The last time I saw a video with an Antifa person, the woman representing Antifa refused to talk share or even shake the hand of the Unite the Right organizer who offered to dialogue and talk respectfully to address concerns and work it out.

So that's where I would disagree with Antifa and agree more with Hedges that a constructive approach is
more conducive to really changing the oppressive class and race based disparities by direct action and alliances.

4. overall I thank you for trying to reach out which is more than other antifa have been trying to do.
keep up the good work to address these issues,
and my main concern is the same as Hedges where the focus is on
building partnerships and alliances toward positive sustainable change.

I'd rather see those solultions in the media rather than anonymous
protestors attacking people they don't know and getting bad press
that sends the wrong message in the media that merely empowers the very dynamics being protested.

Thanks and keep up the good fight, build bridges not walls,
and support all workers uniting across all parties and classes
instead of being divided by party and conquered and oppressed.

Yours truly,
Emily Nghiem
www.10million.net
www.rightsfortheworkers.org
www.freedmenstown.com

Try to imagine white supremacists as the British soldiers in the northern colonies circa 1770. There was no way for Americans to start solving our problems until we got rid of the British soldiers. That is the purpose of Antifa. We will fade away as soon as white supremacists are no longer a problem so Americans can start focusing on real issues.

Difference is antifa the British soldiers were the actual oppressive military forces.
People just defending white culture by free speech at rallies are not the same as actual soldiers.

This comes across as "misdirected"
like trying to target the "black thugs who are ACTUALLY killing people or cops"
by verbally and physically attacking or protesting "black people speaking out at rallies" but not actually doing the attacks.

Also I forgot to list in my response,
what are you doing or not doing about terrorist attacks, rapes
and selling people into slavery that people are doing other than Whites.
What about Mexican cartels who are committing mass violence and genocide,
what about jihadist terrorists who have taken over govts and terrorized civilians for power.

Are you equally against all men/power tyrants who are oppressing innocent
workers and minorities for military and govt controls?

Otherwise it seems "convenient" to blame and target and protest
civilized white men blaming them for the problems you are trying to use them to symbolize.
But avoiding confronting any really dangerous oppressors because that isn't
convenient or safe. So it looks chicken and cheap, just going for easy targets
but overlooking really gross threats to human rights as in terrorist and trafficking rings.

Isn't this just for convenience?

British soldiers were (are) servants to the crown. White supremacists are tools to distract us from the real issues.

Wrong, ANTIFA are tools to combat real issues like dwindling Whites, and the rise of low IQ Brownies.

 

[Norman]

Mark Bray wrote the Anti-Fascist Handbook, and does a pretty good job at explaining the evolution of the movement. The video is 26 minute so I only expect one of you to watch it. The rest of you will remain ignorant, yet continue to post as if you know what we are about.

Mark Bray wrote the Anti-Fascist Handbook, and does a pretty good job at explaining the evolution of the movement. The video is 26 minute so I only expect one of you to watch it. The rest of you will remain ignorant, yet continue to post as if you know what we are about.

Hi member antifa and thanks for posting this.

I relate more to the views expressed by Chris Hedges in this video
but at least understand the Antifa purpose in that context.

I have experience working with both approaches within the Occupy
movement, and the peace and justice community where this issue
came up with the Revolutionary Workers and the Food Not Bombs
and Anti Racist Action as well as La Raza and other groups that
weren't opposed to using violence in protests against war and
global oppression. I share more of Chris Hedges views that
the greater goal IS to reach out and break down the barriers, and
form alliances by making allies within the very ranks being protested and opposed
in order to effect real change. But Mark Bray made it clear that part of the
process is not the goal of Antifa but to protest, target and stop small
groups at the start before they can mobilize into larger movements.

my criticisms of this are pretty much along the lines that Hedges expressed.

What I will say about Antifa
1. even after watching this video that explains their reasons for protest,
it still comes across to me as white men enlisting others to fight turf wars using the
same race baiting tactics against the opposite side. I find the real minorities who are
truly oppressed have needs that are met by working to solve problems across racial,
class and party lines. So although this protests serve a purpose to publicize and
protest problems, like Hedges also stated it doesn't serve to solve the actual problems.

2. in fact, I believe similar to Hedges criticism that these violent protests serve
to strengthen and embolden the very opposition they seek to strike fear and shame into.
Instead like Hedges said, because this doesn't make a dent in the real power structure,
those in power merely exploit these protests to empower more opposition to the opponents,
by demeaning and belittling and discrediting the groups due to violence and other criticisms of methods.
In addition to what Hedges says, I would say that these tactics REINFORCE the "white power"
tactics of divide and conquer and "fear based" politics, that merely keep those people in power further.

What I wish that more people did instead was adopt the tactic where the "greedy people in power"
will set aside their differences and commit to work together to achieve goals that benefit them anyway.
If the activists adopted THAT tactic and found ways to work together, then that would be fighting
fire with fire and beating people at their own game. Instead, taking the opposite path of
divide and conquer by fear based bullying and attacks is playing into the game of remaining
disempowered while those in control play one side against the other and still win regardless.

3. third is I don't see the connection between "people fighting against Nazi Hitler holocaust in Germany"
with antifa protests blaming White Supremacists or Nationalists in America at rallies or protests.
Instead this comes across as trying to silence free speech because the people speaking
at these White Unite the Right rallies are NOT the same as Nazi's having committed genocidal holocausts.

One group is actually fighting in defense against the actual armies and offenders doing the attacks.
The other is trying to do "preemptive" strikes at the point where people are exercising free speech and
haven't been proven to commit any race based attacks or lynchings much less genocidal acts that require physical defense.

Again, I understand Mark's explanation that the point is not to wait for the attacks to get to the point of unstoppable violence that can't be defended against. But if someone is committed offense by their speech, they should be answered
at the same level, so this dialogue should be open and civilized, not set up to fail by waging attacks on each other.

The last time I saw a video with an Antifa person, the woman representing Antifa refused to talk share or even shake the hand of the Unite the Right organizer who offered to dialogue and talk respectfully to address concerns and work it out.

So that's where I would disagree with Antifa and agree more with Hedges that a constructive approach is
more conducive to really changing the oppressive class and race based disparities by direct action and alliances.

4. overall I thank you for trying to reach out which is more than other antifa have been trying to do.
keep up the good work to address these issues,
and my main concern is the same as Hedges where the focus is on
building partnerships and alliances toward positive sustainable change.

I'd rather see those solultions in the media rather than anonymous
protestors attacking people they don't know and getting bad press
that sends the wrong message in the media that merely empowers the very dynamics being protested.

Thanks and keep up the good fight, build bridges not walls,
and support all workers uniting across all parties and classes
instead of being divided by party and conquered and oppressed.

Yours truly,
Emily Nghiem
www.10million.net
www.rightsfortheworkers.org
www.freedmenstown.com

Try to imagine white supremacists as the British soldiers in the northern colonies circa 1770. There was no way for Americans to start solving our problems until we got rid of the British soldiers. That is the purpose of Antifa. We will fade away as soon as white supremacists are no longer a problem so Americans can start focusing on real issues.

Difference is antifa the British soldiers were the actual oppressive military forces.
People just defending white culture by free speech at rallies are not the same as actual soldiers.

This comes across as "misdirected"
like trying to target the "black thugs who are ACTUALLY killing people or cops"
by verbally and physically attacking or protesting "black people speaking out at rallies" but not actually doing the attacks.

Also I forgot to list in my response,
what are you doing or not doing about terrorist attacks, rapes
and selling people into slavery that people are doing other than Whites.
What about Mexican cartels who are committing mass violence and genocide,
what about jihadist terrorists who have taken over govts and terrorized civilians for power.

Are you equally against all men/power tyrants who are oppressing innocent
workers and minorities for military and govt controls?

Otherwise it seems "convenient" to blame and target and protest
civilized white men blaming them for the problems you are trying to use them to symbolize.
But avoiding confronting any really dangerous oppressors because that isn't
convenient or safe. So it looks chicken and cheap, just going for easy targets
but overlooking really gross threats to human rights as in terrorist and trafficking rings.

Isn't this just for convenience?

British soldiers were (are) servants to the crown. White supremacists are tools to distract us from the real issues.

Wrong, ANTIFA are tools to combat real issues like dwindling Whites, and the rise of low IQ Brownies.

If a group has an average IQ above 80, they are white supremacists according to Antifa.

No surprises, their own average IQ must not be half that.

 

[westwall]

Based on behavior you are the new Sturm Abteilung. Sooooo, you seem to be pretty fascist to me.... Just sayin...

I'm not the one playing hall monitor on a message board.

Neither am I. However, when you attack people for nothing other than attending a political rally that you don't happen to agree with, that IS fascist.

When you become a mod it's to have power over other people.

Yep, I love lording it over people. I take particular pleasure in abusing small dogs and kittens too!

Some people have something to say and some become mods.

Fortunately for you I'm both! Got a puppy I can kick?

 

[Norman]

I think you adequately explained the Antifa position.

End the mods, to be a mod is oppressive, white privilege. Thanks Antifa for making such brilliant observation. I think, we will have to pass though. As tempting as the socialist utopia sounds.

 

[SobieskiSavedEurope]

Imagine being so stupid that you don't know you're a brainwashed communist.
Brutalist

It's amazing how Germans could be so brainwashed by Nazi Fascists, and then Communist anti-Fascists.

 

[SobieskiSavedEurope]

Mark Bray wrote the Anti-Fascist Handbook, and does a pretty good job at explaining the evolution of the movement. The video is 26 minute so I only expect one of you to watch it. The rest of you will remain ignorant, yet continue to post as if you know what we are about.

Mark Bray wrote the Anti-Fascist Handbook, and does a pretty good job at explaining the evolution of the movement. The video is 26 minute so I only expect one of you to watch it. The rest of you will remain ignorant, yet continue to post as if you know what we are about.

Hi member antifa and thanks for posting this.

I relate more to the views expressed by Chris Hedges in this video
but at least understand the Antifa purpose in that context.

I have experience working with both approaches within the Occupy
movement, and the peace and justice community where this issue
came up with the Revolutionary Workers and the Food Not Bombs
and Anti Racist Action as well as La Raza and other groups that
weren't opposed to using violence in protests against war and
global oppression. I share more of Chris Hedges views that
the greater goal IS to reach out and break down the barriers, and
form alliances by making allies within the very ranks being protested and opposed
in order to effect real change. But Mark Bray made it clear that part of the
process is not the goal of Antifa but to protest, target and stop small
groups at the start before they can mobilize into larger movements.

my criticisms of this are pretty much along the lines that Hedges expressed.

What I will say about Antifa
1. even after watching this video that explains their reasons for protest,
it still comes across to me as white men enlisting others to fight turf wars using the
same race baiting tactics against the opposite side. I find the real minorities who are
truly oppressed have needs that are met by working to solve problems across racial,
class and party lines. So although this protests serve a purpose to publicize and
protest problems, like Hedges also stated it doesn't serve to solve the actual problems.

2. in fact, I believe similar to Hedges criticism that these violent protests serve
to strengthen and embolden the very opposition they seek to strike fear and shame into.
Instead like Hedges said, because this doesn't make a dent in the real power structure,
those in power merely exploit these protests to empower more opposition to the opponents,
by demeaning and belittling and discrediting the groups due to violence and other criticisms of methods.
In addition to what Hedges says, I would say that these tactics REINFORCE the "white power"
tactics of divide and conquer and "fear based" politics, that merely keep those people in power further.

What I wish that more people did instead was adopt the tactic where the "greedy people in power"
will set aside their differences and commit to work together to achieve goals that benefit them anyway.
If the activists adopted THAT tactic and found ways to work together, then that would be fighting
fire with fire and beating people at their own game. Instead, taking the opposite path of
divide and conquer by fear based bullying and attacks is playing into the game of remaining
disempowered while those in control play one side against the other and still win regardless.

3. third is I don't see the connection between "people fighting against Nazi Hitler holocaust in Germany"
with antifa protests blaming White Supremacists or Nationalists in America at rallies or protests.
Instead this comes across as trying to silence free speech because the people speaking
at these White Unite the Right rallies are NOT the same as Nazi's having committed genocidal holocausts.

One group is actually fighting in defense against the actual armies and offenders doing the attacks.
The other is trying to do "preemptive" strikes at the point where people are exercising free speech and
haven't been proven to commit any race based attacks or lynchings much less genocidal acts that require physical defense.

Again, I understand Mark's explanation that the point is not to wait for the attacks to get to the point of unstoppable violence that can't be defended against. But if someone is committed offense by their speech, they should be answered
at the same level, so this dialogue should be open and civilized, not set up to fail by waging attacks on each other.

The last time I saw a video with an Antifa person, the woman representing Antifa refused to talk share or even shake the hand of the Unite the Right organizer who offered to dialogue and talk respectfully to address concerns and work it out.

So that's where I would disagree with Antifa and agree more with Hedges that a constructive approach is
more conducive to really changing the oppressive class and race based disparities by direct action and alliances.

4. overall I thank you for trying to reach out which is more than other antifa have been trying to do.
keep up the good work to address these issues,
and my main concern is the same as Hedges where the focus is on
building partnerships and alliances toward positive sustainable change.

I'd rather see those solultions in the media rather than anonymous
protestors attacking people they don't know and getting bad press
that sends the wrong message in the media that merely empowers the very dynamics being protested.

Thanks and keep up the good fight, build bridges not walls,
and support all workers uniting across all parties and classes
instead of being divided by party and conquered and oppressed.

Yours truly,
Emily Nghiem
www.10million.net
www.rightsfortheworkers.org
www.freedmenstown.com

Try to imagine white supremacists as the British soldiers in the northern colonies circa 1770. There was no way for Americans to start solving our problems until we got rid of the British soldiers. That is the purpose of Antifa. We will fade away as soon as white supremacists are no longer a problem so Americans can start focusing on real issues.

By your logic... Then Black, and White Separatists are correct.... Black Americans can't start solving their own problems until they have their own Sovereign nation.

 

[SobieskiSavedEurope]

Hi member antifa and thanks for posting this.

I relate more to the views expressed by Chris Hedges in this video
but at least understand the Antifa purpose in that context.

I have experience working with both approaches within the Occupy
movement, and the peace and justice community where this issue
came up with the Revolutionary Workers and the Food Not Bombs
and Anti Racist Action as well as La Raza and other groups that
weren't opposed to using violence in protests against war and
global oppression. I share more of Chris Hedges views that
the greater goal IS to reach out and break down the barriers, and
form alliances by making allies within the very ranks being protested and opposed
in order to effect real change. But Mark Bray made it clear that part of the
process is not the goal of Antifa but to protest, target and stop small
groups at the start before they can mobilize into larger movements.

my criticisms of this are pretty much along the lines that Hedges expressed.

What I will say about Antifa
1. even after watching this video that explains their reasons for protest,
it still comes across to me as white men enlisting others to fight turf wars using the
same race baiting tactics against the opposite side. I find the real minorities who are
truly oppressed have needs that are met by working to solve problems across racial,
class and party lines. So although this protests serve a purpose to publicize and
protest problems, like Hedges also stated it doesn't serve to solve the actual problems.

2. in fact, I believe similar to Hedges criticism that these violent protests serve
to strengthen and embolden the very opposition they seek to strike fear and shame into.
Instead like Hedges said, because this doesn't make a dent in the real power structure,
those in power merely exploit these protests to empower more opposition to the opponents,
by demeaning and belittling and discrediting the groups due to violence and other criticisms of methods.
In addition to what Hedges says, I would say that these tactics REINFORCE the "white power"
tactics of divide and conquer and "fear based" politics, that merely keep those people in power further.

What I wish that more people did instead was adopt the tactic where the "greedy people in power"
will set aside their differences and commit to work together to achieve goals that benefit them anyway.
If the activists adopted THAT tactic and found ways to work together, then that would be fighting
fire with fire and beating people at their own game. Instead, taking the opposite path of
divide and conquer by fear based bullying and attacks is playing into the game of remaining
disempowered while those in control play one side against the other and still win regardless.

3. third is I don't see the connection between "people fighting against Nazi Hitler holocaust in Germany"
with antifa protests blaming White Supremacists or Nationalists in America at rallies or protests.
Instead this comes across as trying to silence free speech because the people speaking
at these White Unite the Right rallies are NOT the same as Nazi's having committed genocidal holocausts.

One group is actually fighting in defense against the actual armies and offenders doing the attacks.
The other is trying to do "preemptive" strikes at the point where people are exercising free speech and
haven't been proven to commit any race based attacks or lynchings much less genocidal acts that require physical defense.

Again, I understand Mark's explanation that the point is not to wait for the attacks to get to the point of unstoppable violence that can't be defended against. But if someone is committed offense by their speech, they should be answered
at the same level, so this dialogue should be open and civilized, not set up to fail by waging attacks on each other.

The last time I saw a video with an Antifa person, the woman representing Antifa refused to talk share or even shake the hand of the Unite the Right organizer who offered to dialogue and talk respectfully to address concerns and work it out.

So that's where I would disagree with Antifa and agree more with Hedges that a constructive approach is
more conducive to really changing the oppressive class and race based disparities by direct action and alliances.

4. overall I thank you for trying to reach out which is more than other antifa have been trying to do.
keep up the good work to address these issues,
and my main concern is the same as Hedges where the focus is on
building partnerships and alliances toward positive sustainable change.

I'd rather see those solultions in the media rather than anonymous
protestors attacking people they don't know and getting bad press
that sends the wrong message in the media that merely empowers the very dynamics being protested.

Thanks and keep up the good fight, build bridges not walls,
and support all workers uniting across all parties and classes
instead of being divided by party and conquered and oppressed.

Yours truly,
Emily Nghiem
www.10million.net
www.rightsfortheworkers.org
www.freedmenstown.com

Try to imagine white supremacists as the British soldiers in the northern colonies circa 1770. There was no way for Americans to start solving our problems until we got rid of the British soldiers. That is the purpose of Antifa. We will fade away as soon as white supremacists are no longer a problem so Americans can start focusing on real issues.

Difference is antifa the British soldiers were the actual oppressive military forces.
People just defending white culture by free speech at rallies are not the same as actual soldiers.

This comes across as "misdirected"
like trying to target the "black thugs who are ACTUALLY killing people or cops"
by verbally and physically attacking or protesting "black people speaking out at rallies" but not actually doing the attacks.

Also I forgot to list in my response,
what are you doing or not doing about terrorist attacks, rapes
and selling people into slavery that people are doing other than Whites.
What about Mexican cartels who are committing mass violence and genocide,
what about jihadist terrorists who have taken over govts and terrorized civilians for power.

Are you equally against all men/power tyrants who are oppressing innocent
workers and minorities for military and govt controls?

Otherwise it seems "convenient" to blame and target and protest
civilized white men blaming them for the problems you are trying to use them to symbolize.
But avoiding confronting any really dangerous oppressors because that isn't
convenient or safe. So it looks chicken and cheap, just going for easy targets
but overlooking really gross threats to human rights as in terrorist and trafficking rings.

Isn't this just for convenience?

British soldiers were (are) servants to the crown. White supremacists are tools to distract us from the real issues.

So how does responding to them and further drawing attention to this "distraction"
help to solve any of the real issues this is distracting from antifa

White supremacists will lead this nation to civil war -- again. We can stop them before that happens.

Mass Immigration is leading this nation to a Civil War...