Antidepressants don't work?

[eots]

addiction? I had an extra 10 pills left over from my last prescription. Hardly an addiction.

As for the fast pulse, i attribute it to stress and also, i usually run on the high side, and the doctor never mentioned the fast pulse (96). If he had, i could have told him that since i don't drive, i had a long walk to the hospital. Isn't exercise to get the pulse going? Also, people are nervous going to see their doctors and it is normal for it to go up a little.

He ordered a blood test for anemia....never got back to me so i guess i don't have anemia. By the way, the previous doctor just less than a year ago ordered a complete blood count and he called me as soon as he got the report and said, "whatever you're doing, keep doing it." it was perfect.

you could switch to a little heroin the effect is the same and its really easy to get

So let me get this right, SSRI are bad but you advice someone to take Heroin? You are a fucking loony tunes.

In some cases a small dose of some form of opiate could be preferable to SSRIs...but some activity and healthy foods and cognitive therapy to get to the root of the anxiety would be my prescription

 

[Big Fitz]

Anybody watching 60 minutes tonight? If not, watch it online. It's very interesting how some researchers are now saying that antidepressants don't work in mild or moderate cases. Heck, it sounds like the UK has already admitted it.

Take a view, it's good.

They don't work in most cases because "depression" has no pathology....There's no "disease", in the traditional clinical sense, to treat.

Most of today's unquantifiable "disorders" are pretty much dreamed up by PhD candidates, who needed to make a "new discovery" for their dissertations.

Or companies looking for a new disease to 'treat' for billions of dollars.

 

[eots]

I recommend a powerful placebo for all that ails you and yours

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QvbQnMvhQFw]"Placebo: Cracking the Code" - YouTube[/ame]

 

[editec]

These drugs work for some people.

For some people they work for a wehile and then cease working.

I SUSPECT that there's a lot more different types and causes of clinical depression than we, as yet, understand.

For instance....some people expression what we are calling depression by thinking about suicide and by self obsessing.

Other people ALSO WITH A CLINCICAL DEPRESSION Dx manifest no suicidal tendencies and their rage is externalized.

Are those two very different manifestations of symptoms REALLY the same disease?

I rather doubt it.

 

[eots]

There are all kinds of depression. I have never been depressed other than the temporary sadness over something that happens occasionally. However, both my aunt and uncle had been severely depressed and got shock treatments. End of depression. Maybe we should bring that form of treatment back. I wonder if the pharmaceutical companies would be against it......

shock treatment is most likely placebo

 

[RetiredGySgt]

There are all kinds of depression. I have never been depressed other than the temporary sadness over something that happens occasionally. However, both my aunt and uncle had been severely depressed and got shock treatments. End of depression. Maybe we should bring that form of treatment back. I wonder if the pharmaceutical companies would be against it......

ECT still is used. Just on a very narrow basis. I had ECT, didn't help me.

 

[Sunshine]

Anybody watching 60 minutes tonight? If not, watch it online. It's very interesting how some researchers are now saying that antidepressants don't work in mild or moderate cases. Heck, it sounds like the UK has already admitted it.

Take a view, it's good.

That's just wrong. Antidepressants do work, I've been prescribing them for 16 of the 23 years I've been a psych nurse. Treatment is more effective if you combine therapy and meds. The milder cases are easier to wean off meds after therapy, though. And even that is trial and error.

 

[Sunshine]

They don't work in most cases because "depression" has no pathology....There's no "disease", in the traditional clinical sense, to treat.

Most of today's unquantifiable "disorders" are pretty much dreamed up by PhD candidates, who needed to make a "new discovery" for their dissertations.

Clinical Depression exists. I have it and I suffer major depression pretty much all the time. It is caused mostly by a lack of one or more neurotransmitters in the brain. They have not developed a way to test medically for it.

If there's no way to test for it, then the doctors are just guessing...This is why depression is not a disease in the strictly defined sense...The diagnosis is made on purely anecdotal evidence.

Believe me, I'm not minimizing your particular experience...I'm just saying that the doctors are guessing and people are getting needlessly hooked on antidepressants.

The problem currently is that people that are NOT clinically depressed are diagnosed as such and given pills that won't help them because they have no deficiency of those transmitters.

No, the problem is that there is no way to actually see and physically measure a neurotransmitter, to test if the hypothesis is correct or not.

Kids are the most over diagnosed of the lot. Act up as a teenager naturally does and an over concerned parent or Teacher will get you seen by a therapist or Doctor that has a vested interest in you being depressed.

The local mental health facility went from treating adults and senile old to no old people only about 10 beds for adults and almost exclusively treating teenagers and small children.

Further in children and teenagers the drugs that are common to the current era do not work on them. They actually induce the very effects they are supposed to treat.

Kids are overdiagnosed for just about all unquantifiable and unverifiable "disorders"...It's good to catch the kids while they're young, so they can be programmed to think that they are on the effect end of the world and their bodies....Makes for much more compliant little proles.

Actually, antidepressants are not addicting, so no one is 'hooked'. The only one I know of that has a street value is Elavil and that is because it is sedating. They call the abuse of it 'trypping.'

Kids, I don't know, I've never worked with them, but I would not want mine on a drug like Rittalin. And these days, teachers simply don't want to have to get control and insist more and more kids be on those drugs every year.

 

[eots]

Anybody watching 60 minutes tonight? If not, watch it online. It's very interesting how some researchers are now saying that antidepressants don't work in mild or moderate cases. Heck, it sounds like the UK has already admitted it.

Take a view, it's good.

That's just wrong. Antidepressants do work, I've been prescribing them for 16 of the 23 years I've been a Treatment is more effective if you combine therapy and meds. The milder cases are easier to wean off meds after therapy, though. And even that is trial and error.

sugar pills are almost as effective..its its disturbing a psych nurse can not grasp this simple concept

 

[Sunshine]

Anybody watching 60 minutes tonight? If not, watch it online. It's very interesting how some researchers are now saying that antidepressants don't work in mild or moderate cases. Heck, it sounds like the UK has already admitted it.

Take a view, it's good.

They don't work in most cases because "depression" has no pathology....There's no "disease", in the traditional clinical sense, to treat.

Most of today's unquantifiable "disorders" are pretty much dreamed up by PhD candidates, who needed to make a "new discovery" for their dissertations.

That's absurd. There is existant pathology in depression. There is no quantifiable test for the disease. The diagnosis is completely clinical. So are many other diseases. That doesn't mean they don't exist. The notion that psych disorders are created by PhD candidates is also silly. Psychiatrists (MDs) own the DSM IV and not psychologists.

I'd agree that depression is over diagnosed and treated. I'd argue that fact is reflective of the fact that there is a shortage of psychiatrists and GP's are left to do there best.

The dirty little secret of SSRIs, which is not really a secret at all if you've kept up with the literature, is that after accounting for placebo, they aren't nearly as effective as people believe.

That doesn't change the fact that people have benefitted tremendously from them and that they know are showing efficacy in treating anxiety, fibromyalgia, and other disorders.

I agree that PC providers don't have the expertise to prescribe the psych drugs in complex cases. However, for someone who is on their 20 mg of Prozac needing nothing else, specialty care is ludicrous. There is no reason why the PC provider can't just give the person his/her 20 of Prozac.

The thing I find PC providers can't diagnose is bipolar disorder. People who are bipolar go to the doctor complaining of either anxiety or depression. If their mania is pleasant they don't consider it a problem so they just complain of depression. If they have unpleasant mania they call it 'panic attacks' because they don't understand what it is. So one of two things will happen depending on the case. PC provider gives 'depessed' patient an SSRI which triggers the mania to the point of psychosis, and the patient then is truly crazy, so I get him/her in my practice. With good assessment of the person's mood over time, and appropriate treatment, they would have never gone psychotic. Scenario 2 is PC provider treats the person with 'panic attacks' with Xanax. It helps the mania a little. So the person goes back. But then it stops helping and in 6 months the patient is demanding Xanax week after week and looks like a raving drug addict because by then even the largest dose will not control their mania. Again, I get the person who now has, not only a major mental illness, but also a drug addiction.

The PC providers where I work generally want every patient with psych issues to be evaluated by me. And I'm glad. If it is not a complex case, I turn them back to the PC provider with recommendations.

 

[geauxtohell]

So let me get this right, SSRI are bad but you advice someone to take Heroin? You are a fucking loony tunes.

Yeah. Heroin certainly isn't addictive and doesn't have any unpleasant side effects.....

so geauxtohell the drug dealer puts his 2 cents worth in trying to maintain a market for his crap drugs

The difference between you and I is that, my medical opinion is educated. Yours is opinion, and dangerous at that.

"Try heroin..."

You are a joke.

 

[Sunshine]

Yeah. Heroin certainly isn't addictive and doesn't have any unpleasant side effects.....

so geauxtohell the drug dealer puts his 2 cents worth in trying to maintain a market for his crap drugs

The difference between you and I is that, my medical opinion is educated. Yours is opinion, and dangerous at that.

"Try heroin..."

You are a joke.

You nailed it and I have tied up with eots over psych care before, so I don't waste my time on him. It's obvious what he is.

 

[geauxtohell]

So let me get this right, SSRI are bad but you advice someone to take Heroin? You are a fucking loony tunes.

Yeah. Heroin certainly isn't addictive and doesn't have any unpleasant side effects.....

she was complaining about access to opiates I was just saying heroin is easier to get.. no one said anything about not being addictive or not having potential unpleasant effects

A.). You told her to committ a felony.
B.). Clonazapam isn't even remotely an opiate.

 

[eots]

Yeah. Heroin certainly isn't addictive and doesn't have any unpleasant side effects.....

so geauxtohell the drug dealer puts his 2 cents worth in trying to maintain a market for his crap drugs

The difference between you and I is that, my medical opinion is educated. Yours is opinion, and dangerous at that.

"Try heroin..."

You are a joke.

you took two words out of a paragraph there is .sacasim there pointing out the fact heroin is in fact easier to get in this crazy reality we live in..you have not been educated you have been programmed

 

[geauxtohell]

96 isn't technically tachycardia or a fast pulse as it's under a hundred. It doesn't need to be treated and many people get "white coat syndrome" where they get nervous in healthcare environments.

THANKS FOR YOUR OPINION. I DON'T DRIVE SO I HAD WALKED PRETTY FAR AND FAST TO GET TO MY APPOINTMENT, PLUS THE STRESS OF GOING TO DOCTORS, SO I KIND OF AGREE WITH YOU. IT'S JUST THAT I DON'T THINK MY PULSE WAS EVER THAT HIGH BEFORE. MY SON HAS HAD PROBLEMS WITH A FAST PULSE SINCE HE'S BEEN A TEENAGER. ONE TIME IT WAS UP TO 140. I TOOK HIM TO THE EMERGENCY ROOM IN SAN DIEGO AND THEY GAVE HIM A PILL TO SEE IF IT WOULD BRING IT DOWN. I COULD STILL KILL HIM FOR THIS BUT HE THREW THE PILL ACROSS THE ROOM AND THE DOCTOR (NOR I) NEVER KNEW IT AT THE TIME. THAT PILL COULD HAVE TOLD THE MD'S WHAT WAS WRONG AND ALLEVIATED MY FEARS. ABOUT 2 YEARS AGO HE SAID HE HAD CHEST PAIN SO WE WENT TO OUR LOCAL E.R. THEY GAVE HIM AN ECHOCARDIOGRAM AND SAID THAT NOTHING SHOWED UP. A MANUAL EXAM REVEALED THAT HE HAS A BONE OUT OF PLACE IN HIS CHEST, WHICH IS PROBABLY HEREDITARY AND THAT LIKELY CAUSED THE PAIN. AS HE IS TALL AND VERY SKINNY AND HAS EXTRA-ELASTICITY OF THE SKIN, THEY BELIEVE THAT HE MAY HAVE SOMETHING SUCH AS MARFAN'S SYNDROME. HOWEVER, HIS RETINAS WERE CHECKED AND THEY WERE NORMAL AND ALSO THE ECHOCARDIOGRAM SHOWED THAT HIS AORTA WAS NORMAL, SO EITHER HE DOES NOT HAVE MARFAN OR JUST A MILD CASE OF IT. HE HAS A LITTLE BIT OF SCOLIOSIS AT THE TOP OF HIS SPINE BUT AGAIN, HIS HALF-SISTER HAD SURGERY FOR SCOLIOSIS. MY SON ALSO WORE A 24-HOUR HOLTER MONITOR AND IT SHOWED NORMAL HEART RHTHYM, THANK GOD. HIS MAJOR PROBLEM IS OCD. I KNOW THAT THE TREATMENT FOR THAT INVOLVES A DRUG SUCH AS ZOLOFT AND I'M SO SAD THAT HE WILL PROBABLY HAVE TO START TAKING MEDICATION FOR IT.

Benzodiazepines like Xanax, clonapin (clonazapam), Ativan, versed, and halcyon have horrible reputations as drugs of abuse in this country. Doctors hate giving them out and if you go to an ED and ask for them, you are going to be looked at suspiciously - whether fair or unfair.

INSULIN BLINDS BUT STILL IT IS GIVEN TO DIABETICS. THE ONES WHO COMMIT SUICIDE ARE FREQUENTLY THE BIPOLAR SUFFERERS. BESIDES, I'M NOT A YOUNG GIRL SO TAKING PILLS THAT ERADICATE MY ANXIETY WILL ONLY HELP ME, IN BEING ABLE TO WORK AND NOT GET MAD AT PEOPLE OVER NOTHING. ANYBODY WHO HAS NOT SUFFERED FROM A PANIC ATTACK OR BAD PALPITATIONS SHOULD GET DOWN ON THEIR KNEES AND THANK GOD.

Benzos are no longer indicated for any anxiety issue other than panic attacks.
I GET PANIC ATTACKS!!!!!

SSRIs like Zoloft are what are now recommended. It sounds like cost is an issue, but what you need is a long term medication like an SSRI and therapy. As it stands, you will continue to have a hard time getting clonapin. REALLY, THE ER'S SHOULD BE FOR LIFE AND DEATH EMERGENCIES BUT ARE MORE AND MORE FILLED WITH PEOPLE WHO ARE PANICKING AND IF YOU HAVE NEVER SUFFERED FROM A TRUE PANIC ATTACK, CONSIDER YOURSELF LUCKY.

They can test your son's fibrillin genes to see if he has Marfans. He needs to know if he does, so that he can get to the ED when he has chest pain to make sure he doesn't have aortic dissection.

I promise you your heart rate has been well over 96 many, many times in your life. If it hasn't, something is wrong. Unless it's tied to an arrhythmia, it's not problematic.

I only informed you of why you are having a hard time getting benzos. Especially in EDs. I didn't make a claim about how your condition needs to be managed.

 

[geauxtohell]

So let me get this right, SSRI are bad but you advice someone to take Heroin? You are a fucking loony tunes.

In some cases a small dose of some form of opiate could be preferable to SSRIs...but some activity and healthy foods and cognitive therapy to get to the root of the anxiety would be my prescription

Thanks for the advice. First of all, I do not drive and I walk everywhere. I walk fast. I am 5'7'' and 116 lbs. I have been eating healthy since childhood - my mother was into cod liver oil, goat's milk and we had our own chickens for eggs and even bees for natural honey. Some mental and mood disorders run in the family - my maternal uncle and aunt both had shock treatments for depression back when that treatment was popular. It cured them. My first panic attack happened in a car shortly after my father's sudden death at home. I went to a psychiatrist and he misdiagnosed me and gave me an anti-psychotic agent rather than something for panic. Fortunately, I didn't suffer from panic for many years and never took any sort of medication for many years either. The terrorist attacks in N.Y. set off my recurring problems for some reason.

PTSD works like that. Did you witness your father's death?

 

[eots]

In some cases a small dose of some form of opiate could be preferable to SSRIs...but some activity and healthy foods and cognitive therapy to get to the root of the this was my actual advice anxiety would be my prescription

here was my advice but you dont like that bedause it would cut into drug sales

 

[eots]

so geauxtohell the drug dealer puts his 2 cents worth in trying to maintain a market for his crap drugs

The difference between you and I is that, my medical opinion is educated. Yours is opinion, and dangerous at that.

"Try heroin..."

You are a joke.

You nailed it and I have tied up with eots over psych care before, so I don't waste my time on him. It's obvious what he is.

I can not help but notice you can not address or acknowledge the fact that a
sugar pill is as or close to as effective as these brain damaging an addictive drugs

 

[geauxtohell]

In some cases a small dose of some form of opiate could be preferable to SSRIs...but some activity and healthy foods and cognitive therapy to get to the root of the this was my actual advice anxiety would be my prescription

here was my advice but you dont like that bedause it would cut into drug sales

I don't give a fuck about drug sales. I give a fuck about bad medical advice. On that regard, you are a walking calamity.

 

[Sunshine]

96 isn't technically tachycardia or a fast pulse as it's under a hundred. It doesn't need to be treated and many people get "white coat syndrome" where they get nervous in healthcare environments.

THANKS FOR YOUR OPINION. I DON'T DRIVE SO I HAD WALKED PRETTY FAR AND FAST TO GET TO MY APPOINTMENT, PLUS THE STRESS OF GOING TO DOCTORS, SO I KIND OF AGREE WITH YOU. IT'S JUST THAT I DON'T THINK MY PULSE WAS EVER THAT HIGH BEFORE. MY SON HAS HAD PROBLEMS WITH A FAST PULSE SINCE HE'S BEEN A TEENAGER. ONE TIME IT WAS UP TO 140. I TOOK HIM TO THE EMERGENCY ROOM IN SAN DIEGO AND THEY GAVE HIM A PILL TO SEE IF IT WOULD BRING IT DOWN. I COULD STILL KILL HIM FOR THIS BUT HE THREW THE PILL ACROSS THE ROOM AND THE DOCTOR (NOR I) NEVER KNEW IT AT THE TIME. THAT PILL COULD HAVE TOLD THE MD'S WHAT WAS WRONG AND ALLEVIATED MY FEARS. ABOUT 2 YEARS AGO HE SAID HE HAD CHEST PAIN SO WE WENT TO OUR LOCAL E.R. THEY GAVE HIM AN ECHOCARDIOGRAM AND SAID THAT NOTHING SHOWED UP. A MANUAL EXAM REVEALED THAT HE HAS A BONE OUT OF PLACE IN HIS CHEST, WHICH IS PROBABLY HEREDITARY AND THAT LIKELY CAUSED THE PAIN. AS HE IS TALL AND VERY SKINNY AND HAS EXTRA-ELASTICITY OF THE SKIN, THEY BELIEVE THAT HE MAY HAVE SOMETHING SUCH AS MARFAN'S SYNDROME. HOWEVER, HIS RETINAS WERE CHECKED AND THEY WERE NORMAL AND ALSO THE ECHOCARDIOGRAM SHOWED THAT HIS AORTA WAS NORMAL, SO EITHER HE DOES NOT HAVE MARFAN OR JUST A MILD CASE OF IT. HE HAS A LITTLE BIT OF SCOLIOSIS AT THE TOP OF HIS SPINE BUT AGAIN, HIS HALF-SISTER HAD SURGERY FOR SCOLIOSIS. MY SON ALSO WORE A 24-HOUR HOLTER MONITOR AND IT SHOWED NORMAL HEART RHTHYM, THANK GOD. HIS MAJOR PROBLEM IS OCD. I KNOW THAT THE TREATMENT FOR THAT INVOLVES A DRUG SUCH AS ZOLOFT AND I'M SO SAD THAT HE WILL PROBABLY HAVE TO START TAKING MEDICATION FOR IT.

Benzodiazepines like Xanax, clonapin (clonazapam), Ativan, versed, and halcyon have horrible reputations as drugs of abuse in this country. Doctors hate giving them out and if you go to an ED and ask for them, you are going to be looked at suspiciously - whether fair or unfair.

INSULIN BLINDS BUT STILL IT IS GIVEN TO DIABETICS. THE ONES WHO COMMIT SUICIDE ARE FREQUENTLY THE BIPOLAR SUFFERERS. BESIDES, I'M NOT A YOUNG GIRL SO TAKING PILLS THAT ERADICATE MY ANXIETY WILL ONLY HELP ME, IN BEING ABLE TO WORK AND NOT GET MAD AT PEOPLE OVER NOTHING. ANYBODY WHO HAS NOT SUFFERED FROM A PANIC ATTACK OR BAD PALPITATIONS SHOULD GET DOWN ON THEIR KNEES AND THANK GOD.

Benzos are no longer indicated for any anxiety issue other than panic attacks.
I GET PANIC ATTACKS!!!!!

SSRIs like Zoloft are what are now recommended. It sounds like cost is an issue, but what you need is a long term medication like an SSRI and therapy. As it stands, you will continue to have a hard time getting clonapin. REALLY, THE ER'S SHOULD BE FOR LIFE AND DEATH EMERGENCIES BUT ARE MORE AND MORE FILLED WITH PEOPLE WHO ARE PANICKING AND IF YOU HAVE NEVER SUFFERED FROM A TRUE PANIC ATTACK, CONSIDER YOURSELF LUCKY.

You are just wrong. And your self diagnosis is probably as well. Benzos are still used in psychiatry. SSRI's treat anxiety just as well, they just aren't a quick fix and they are not addicting. And that quick fix is what most people want. Clearly what you want is to be treated long term with an addicting medication which is not appropriate. I treat panic disorder with Paxil. It's the gold standard for panic attacks.