Anti-semitic EU and UN

[dilloduck]

Once again - a palestinian was a Jew up until 1967. I don't tend to buy into the terrorist Arafat's words and definitions when I look at the world. So a Palestinian is a Jew according to the 1920 Mandate for Jewish Palestine. That the only time in the entire history of Palestine since the 300s when Palestine was created that the area had official borders, had an official people, an official religion and an official language. The people were Jewish, the religion was Jewish and the language was Hebrew. To say Israel was "carved" out of Palestine is completely infactual. It was Arab-Palestine that existed for a very short while that was carved out of Jewish Palestine. It was Arab Trans-Jordan that was carved out of Jewish Palestine.

Arabs didn't live in the territorial area known as Palestine under the Ottoman Empire. In fact, only a very sparse Jewish population lived around Jersualem and Tel Aviv during Ottoman rule. Jews were either exiled or tortured and beaten by the Ottomans. If you'll remember, Ottomans and Arabs hated each other for centuries.



Methinks you should read your current world history. America is, I think, the only country, with maybe a few exceptions, that does not have an official religion. There are 23-24 countries in which Islam is the official religion, probably over 100 countries in which Christianity or an off-shoot of Christianity is the official religion, several countries where Buddhism is the official religion... there is only ONE country, ONE tiny little country the size of New Jersey that has an official religion of Judaism and that's Israel. Is one tiny country, that has belonged to the Jews since Abraham's immigration into Canaan nearly 5000 years ago so much to ask for?

Well certainly---I think the rest of the world would be glad to bow to the God that gave you Israel. (Seriously tho----why such a little piece?)

 

[DavidS]

I think both are wrong, actually. I denounce The United Arab Emeriates, as well. Why doesn't the US call itself a Christian state? and if it did, why would they be wrong if Israel is right?

As I've said, we are the only country that does not have an official religion. Of course, conservatives disagree with that. Anyway, the constitution says that there shall not be an official religion in America. For America - it works. For Christian countries, for Catholic countries, for Buddhist, Taoist, Hindu, Islamic countries... it doesn't work.

 

[DavidS]

Church of England was created so Henry VIII could get divorced. But once again, a "Jewish State"?

Do you question why India is a Hindu state?

 

[DavidS]

And just to put this in perspective...

List of United Nations resolutions concerning Israel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Now, how many times have Hezbollah and Hamas been condemned?

You and Turbo are my new favorite people!

 

[elvis]

Do you question why India is a Hindu state?

Yes I would. I never hear it called a Hindu State, but since it is, I don't know why they call it that. What does that say to all the Buddhists and Muslims that reside in India that the official religion of the country is Hindu? Why have an official religion at all?

 

[DavidS]

Actually, the reverse is true.

Muslim countries are known for protecting people of other religions.

Read your history books. The Jews did far better under Islamic rule, than Christian or any other rulers.

They did better under Persian rule and Arab rule. The Ottoman's were horrible rulers.

 

[dilloduck]

Yes I would. I never hear it called a Hindu State, but since it is, I don't know why they call it that. What does that say to all the Buddhists and Muslims that reside in India that the official religion of the country is Hindu? Why have an official religion at all?

Dude--when GOD tells ya to do soemthing, you gotta do it --or else !

 

[DavidS]

Actually, it was the UN who gave it to the Jews in 1948.

Uh, no. If you are truly a Muslim, you know that God gave Abraham Canaan nearly 5000 years ago.

 

[Sunni Man]

They did better under Persian rule and Arab rule. The Ottoman's were horrible rulers.

Historically, the Christian nations have been the worst.

Spain expelled them. The Russians had pograms. And the Germans were brutal.

 

[DavidS]

Yes I would. I never hear it called a Hindu State, but since it is, I don't know why they call it that. What does that say to all the Buddhists and Muslims that reside in India that the official religion of the country is Hindu? Why have an official religion at all?

Because Hinduism was created in India and that is how it's been for 2500 years. Ireland, Spain, Italy and Germany are all Catholic because of the influence of the Roman Empire and the Holy Roman Empire. A country has the right to dictate its own laws.

That's just the way they want to rule their country and live their lives and they have a right to do so.

 

[dilloduck]

Because Hinduism was created in India and that is how it's been for 2500 years. Ireland, Spain, Italy and Germany are all Catholic because of the influence of the Roman Empire and the Holy Roman Empire. A country has the right to dictate its own laws.

That's just the way they want to rule their country and live their lives and they have a right to do so.

no----Israel will always be the land God gave to the Jews. No matter who rules it. What the hell is wrong with you ?

 

[elvis]

Because Hinduism was created in India and that is how it's been for 2500 years. Ireland, Spain, Italy and Germany are all Catholic because of the influence of the Roman Empire and the Holy Roman Empire. A country has the right to dictate its own laws.

That's just the way they want to rule their country and live their lives and they have a right to do so.

Was Germany considered a Catholic nation between 1932 and 1945?

 

[Sunni Man]

Was Germany considered a Catholic nation between 1932 and 1945?

I think they were mainly Lutheran?

 

[BlackAsCoal]

It's so basic and so simple that people refuse to accept it. It's a Jewish state because God gave that exact land to the Jews. Period.

Surely this is satire

 

[BlackAsCoal]

Uh, no. If you are truly a Muslim, you know that God gave Abraham Canaan nearly 5000 years ago.

Surely this is satire

 

[Sunni Man]

Uh, no. If you are truly a Muslim, you know that God gave Abraham Canaan nearly 5000 years ago.

Yes. God gave the land to Bani Israel (Children of Israel) with certain conditions stated in a Covenant.

Over the next couple of thousand years Israel had violated the Covenant set by God for possession of the land. ie. worship of false gods, shedding of innocent blood, etc.

God then cast All of the Israelites from the land and invalidated the Covenant. This fact is backed up both by the Bible and history.

Israel today has NO valid claim to the land based on religious grounds.

 

[mightypeon]

It's a completely biased map and it uses completely ridiculous accusations. It's about as credible as the Weekly World News.



[/B]Ridiculous maps? What's ridiculous about the maps? They're historical maps. They're factual, not biased using conspiracy theories like your "maps" do.



What is it with you? Do you not like history? Do you know why they British had a mandate there? Because from the 1500s on, the OTTOMANS occupied the land. Do you see that piece of land to the West of Jordan? It's called Arabia.. THAT's where Arabs belong - that's where they come from - ARABIA. Any outward expansion beyond Arabia was done through wars.

FACT: From 1516 - 1917, roughly 300 years, the Ottomans (Turks) occupied the land.

FACT: From 1270 - 1516, the Mamluk of Egypt occupied the land. Egyptians are NOT Arabs.

FACT: From 1099 - 1269, the Crusaders occupied the land. The Crusaders were Christian and created the Jewish Kingdom of Jerusalem for the Jews.

FACT: From 638 - 1099, the Arabs occupied the land in the form of the Caliphate Empire. It was during that time that the Arabs welcomed to the Jews back into Israel and under Arab occupation, the Jews went through what we regard to this day as the Golden Age, where Jews and Arabs lived peacefully together for hundreds of years.

FACT: The CaliphateEmpire sacked the Eastern Roman Empire which had occupied Israel from the time of Jesus onward until the 600s. It was originally the Roman Empire, but when the Roman Empire split in two, Israel was occupied by the Byzantine Empire (Eastern Roman, which eventually shrunk into the Holy Roman Empire, which is why many Italians are Catholic).

FACT: Before the Roman Empire conquered Israel, Israel was ruled for thousands of years by the Jews the Kingdom of Eretz Yisrael and for some time to the south the Kingdom of Judea.

FACT: The Roman Empire re-named Israel to Philistia in the 300s to punish the Jews for their multiple uprisings. Philistia evolved into Palestinia. Philistines were never Arabs, they were Mediterranean.

FACT: In the late 1800s, inspired by the disgusting treatment the Ottomans were giving the Jews living in the occupied land, Jews formed the zionist movement and began to immigrate back to Israel to re-form Israel.

During World War 1 - Britain had promised, through British intelligence officer T. E. Lawrence (aka: Lawrence of Arabia), independence for a united Arab state covering most of the Arab Middle East in exchange for Arab support of the British during the war. They also promised Palestine for the Jews. The Arabs wanted Palestine for themselves and thus the conflict began.

From 1948 - 1967 - the term Palestinian was referred to Jews who lived in the British Mandate of Jewish Palestine after World War 1. It wasn't untl 40 years ago, the term, through billions of dollars from the Arab countries using oil money supporting the PLO, was equated with Arabs.

Palestinains are NOT Arabs. They are Jews.

Uhhm, the Crusaders did defintly not create the Kingdom of Jerussalem for the Jews. As a matter of fact, a Jew at that time was much better off living in a Muslim state. When the first originall crusade was called, the "crusaders" went off to create same large scale progroms all other France and Germany.
Secondly, the Holy Roman Empire (also known as HRE, or, from 1500 onwards, Holy Roman Empire of the German Nation "Heiliges Römisches Reich Deutscher Nation") was not a successor state of Byzantium.
Although both claimed to be (unified) Romes successor states (and both had fairly crappy bilateral relations because of this), the Holy Roman Empire was seen as the successor of west Rome, while Byzantium was East Rome. When the Ottomans conquered Constantinople in 1453, they, along with the Russians and Serbs, claimed to by Byzantiums successor.

Besides, do not claim that Germany or the Holy Roman Empire was/is a Catholic state... You know, the Catholic Habsburgs fought a number of wars to make that happen, did not really work out.
At the moments its 30% Catholic, 30% protestant, 30% dont have a religion, rest is muslim or Buddhist or Orthodox. Prior to WW2 it was 66% protestant 30% catholic.

Apart from that, "Palestinean" is a term for an ethnicity, in that case people living in Palestine. "Jew" is a term for a member of a religiuos denomination. There are Palestinian Jews, there are Palestiniean Muslims, there are non Palestinean Jews and there are non Palestinean Muslims.
And if everyone there would get long with everyone else we would not have such problems.

Besides I (shock) have to agree with Sunni man, the Dhimni laws in most Muslim states were, for the Jew subjected to them, much superior than what was usually the case in Europe. Sure, Jews were not "equal" to muslims and socially disadvantadged, but their possesions and their lives were protected, and they were granted significant religious autonomy.
As a minority group, treatment in the middle ages did not get much better.
The only major christian state coming close to that was the Polish Lithuanian commonwealth, which due to its amount of orthodox christians had to be tolerant. Some Hanse members and (from about 1700) Brandenburg Prussia were tolerant, and Novgorod was quite benighn to the few Jews that were there, but thats it.
The Ottoman Empire was reknown for its tolerance towards other religions. You can assume that the large amount of Spanish Jews who were expelled from Spain and were welcomed with open arms in the Ottoman Empire had valid reasons to go there.

 

[DavidS]

Yes. God gave the land to Bani Israel (Children of Israel) with certain conditions stated in a Covenant.

Over the next couple of thousand years Israel had violated the Covenant set by God for possession of the land. ie. worship of false gods, shedding of innocent blood, etc.

God then cast All of the Israelites from the land and invalidated the Covenant. This fact is backed up both by the Bible and history.

Israel today has NO valid claim to the land based on religious grounds.

This is the first argument I've ever heard about this. I've never heard that Islam believes this... so where are you getting this from?

The whole thing false gods, shedding of innocent bloods sounds like right about the time God introduced them to the Torah after Moses came down and handed the Hebrews the Ten Commandments. After that, God kinda helped them get back into Israel. Sooo.... your story sounds entertaining though.

 

[Sunni Man]

Chapter 17 of the Quran is titled "Bani Israel" ( Children or Israel) and tells the story of the Jews.

The Quran states that the Jews were the Chosen people of God and were given the land.

Both the Quran and the Torah state that the Jews violated the Conenant with God and were kick out of the land.

Thus, the Jews have NO legitimate religious claim to the land of Palestain.

 

[Gunny]

There should be none .. but if we engage Iran, there will be many. Iran presents ZERO threat to the US.



I think both sides have the right to self-defense and I'm sure you don't need me to post the numbers of dead on both sides or the assassinations carried out by Israel.

OR

A scene of death and destruction from the massacre at Sabra and Shatila.

What "justification" is there for this?

My point is Israel is neither innocent or blameless. Israel was superimposed on arab land and has been pushing for more land since it's inception .. and again, I echo the sentiments of a great many jewish people who also stand against Israeli aggression and occupation.

How difficult is that to interpret?



U.N. Condemns Palestinian Suicide Attack, Israeli Operations
U.N. Condemns Palestinian Suicide Attack, Israeli Operations

This isn't the first time the UN has condemned suicide bombers, including using children.



Israel should be made to comply with UN Resolutions and a militray force should be stationed to prevent either side from attacking the other.



Israel is the most hated nation in the world because people aren't stupid. It isn't because of any anti-semitic beliefs, but rather because Isarel is a rogue and dangerous nation that believes itself above international law and norms of behavior.



I do understand its meaning good sister .. but I also understand why it was created .. to deflect critical thinkinbg on the issue .. no differently than "race card" or "conspiracy theory"

My hope for the ME is balance and fairness with neither side having the upper hand.

That's kind of what it looks like when you declare jihad and get your ass kicked.