Anti-Romney film.

[Uncensored2008]

Not seeing "voluntary trade"... I'm seeing people with money pushing around people without money.

Really?

When you go and buy your dope, does the dealer push you around? (I mean, when you don't owe him money for what he fronted you last week.) When you go to get your 40, does the liquor store owner push you around?

An election is where they get to push back.

You don't want to push back, you want to steal. You want to take by force, using the implied violence of the state, what others have.

Like all of the left, you are driven by greed and envy. You're not deprived of anything. You have plenty of food and decent shelter, you have a computer to rant on the internet. You just seethe because there are some with more than you have. Your jealousy drives you insane, you want to punish them for having more than you.

 

[JoeB131]

Not seeing "voluntary trade"... I'm seeing people with money pushing around people without money.

Really?

When you go and buy your dope, does the dealer push you around? (I mean, when you don't owe him money for what he fronted you last week.) When you go to get your 40, does the liquor store owner push you around?

An election is where they get to push back.

Wow, personal insults. Always the sign of a losing argument.

You don't want to push back, you want to steal. You want to take by force, using the implied violence of the state, what others have.

Like all of the left, you are driven by greed and envy. You're not deprived of anything. You have plenty of food and decent shelter, you have a computer to rant on the internet. You just seethe because there are some with more than you have. Your jealousy drives you insane, you want to punish them for having more than you.

Actually, ask the leftwingers here. I'm pretty much on the right on most issues.

My issue is not jealously, it's simple pragmatism. A society with no middle class is doomed to chaos. One only need look at history to see that. I don't worry that someone has more than I have. I worry that in their greed to get more, they take everything that isn't nailed down, and I have to worry someone might break into my house at night to take my TV because they can't get a decent job.

I look at the America I grew up in, one where people had good middle class wages and middle class jobs, solid families and solid values. But a middle class is the solid basis of that.

And people like Reversable Mittens are the ones who have been demolishing it.

 

[Toro]

Actually, ask the leftwingers here. I'm pretty much on the right on most issues.

No you're not. At least on economic issues. On economic issues, you're one of the most left-wing posters here.

 

[JoeB131]

Actually, ask the leftwingers here. I'm pretty much on the right on most issues.

No you're not. At least on economic issues. On economic issues, you're one of the most left-wing posters here.

Only because Right Wing economic theory has failed so miserably. It's amazing anyone still advocates that shit with a straight face. One only has to look at the last shit decade to see that.

Trickle down, doesn't.

Free trade destroys jobs.

It's really pretty simple, and not a left-right thing. The premise is builit on a lie that was debunked 80 years ago, but we forgot the lesson.

The wealthy don't create jobs. Consumer demand does. And you get more consumer demand when you have a vibrant, empowered middle class.

 

[Toro]

Actually, ask the leftwingers here. I'm pretty much on the right on most issues.

No you're not. At least on economic issues. On economic issues, you're one of the most left-wing posters here.

Only because Right Wing economic theory has failed so miserably. It's amazing anyone still advocates that shit with a straight face. One only has to look at the last shit decade to see that.

Trickle down, doesn't.

Free trade destroys jobs.

It's really pretty simple, and not a left-right thing. The premise is builit on a lie that was debunked 80 years ago, but we forgot the lesson.

The wealthy don't create jobs. Consumer demand does. And you get more consumer demand when you have a vibrant, empowered middle class.

Like I said, one of the most left-wing posters here.

And yes, it is a left-right thing.

 

[JoeB131]

NO, it's a right-wrong thing.

But explaining that to someone who was happy to help wipe out Granny's only asset is kind of hard to do, because I explain it and you still don't get it.

Your sort is the kind that wonders what it did wrong when they are being dragged to a guilotine.

 

[Toro]

NO, it's a right-wrong thing.

But explaining that to someone who was happy to help wipe out Granny's only asset is kind of hard to do, because I explain it and you still don't get it.

Your sort is the kind that wonders what it did wrong when they are being dragged to a guilotine.

Yes, leftist. I'm right and you're wrong.

Granny's house doubled in price. It shouldn't have. Then granny's house went right back down to where it was eight years ago. If granny took out a HELOC to re-do her kitchen and bathroom, that's granny's problem since granny did something stupid. If she didn't, then she hasn't been "wiped out" and is right back where she started, despite the bleating whines of anti-capitalist leftists like yourself.

 

[JoeB131]

NO, it's a right-wrong thing.

But explaining that to someone who was happy to help wipe out Granny's only asset is kind of hard to do, because I explain it and you still don't get it.

Your sort is the kind that wonders what it did wrong when they are being dragged to a guilotine.

Yes, leftist. I'm right and you're wrong.

Granny's house doubled in price. It shouldn't have. Then granny's house went right back down to where it was eight years ago. If granny took out a HELOC to re-do her kitchen and bathroom, that's granny's problem since granny did something stupid. If she didn't, then she hasn't been "wiped out" and is right back where she started, despite the bleating whines of anti-capitalist leftists like yourself.

BUt the HELOC didn't fall from the sky. SOmeone aggressively marketted it. Someone picked granny's name out of a phone book or got a lead on her and pushed it to make a profit.

Despite the fact that my home value has halfed in the last four years, the banks are still hounding me. Being a veteran (you know, selflessly serving my country, a concept that is probably alien to you and Mittens) I'm eligable for VA loans, so they send me about three offers a week I toss in the trash.

Just because you can make money doing something immoral or stupid, doesn't make it less immoral or stupid.

 

[Toro]

BUt the HELOC didn't fall from the sky. SOmeone aggressively marketted it. Someone picked granny's name out of a phone book or got a lead on her and pushed it to make a profit.

Somebody may or may not have aggressively marketed it. If somebody did, then they should be prosecuted. But most people weren't. Most grannies didn't take out loans. True story.

Despite the fact that my home value has halfed in the last four years, the banks are still hounding me. Being a veteran (you know, selflessly serving my country, a concept that is probably alien to you and Mittens) I'm eligable for VA loans, so they send me about three offers a week I toss in the trash.

Just because you can make money doing something immoral or stupid, doesn't make it less immoral or stupid.

Your house falling isn't because someone did something immoral or stupid. You buying the house that got cut in half is stupid. I warned people that it was going to happen. But guys like you didn't listen to guys like me. That's your fault, not mine.

 

[JoeB131]

It's really distressing to watch a person without a conscience try to justify himself. I'm not sure why I bother, really.

It isn't about me, so much. I'm a survivor. Always have been. Have been through shit that would have made most people nuts, like both of my parents dying when I was young.

But I see a lot of people suffering in this country, and people like you are out there with, "I got mine, screw you". And unfortunately, that seems to be the people who think Mitt Romney would make a dandy president.

Do you even give a fuck about anyone but yourself? Just asking.

I'm reasonably sure whatever tired answer you give justifying greed will depress me even more.

 

[Toro]

It's really distressing to watch a person without a conscience try to justify himself. I'm not sure why I bother, really.

It isn't about me, so much. I'm a survivor. Always have been. Have been through shit that would have made most people nuts, like both of my parents dying when I was young.

But I see a lot of people suffering in this country, and people like you are out there with, "I got mine, screw you". And unfortunately, that seems to be the people who think Mitt Romney would make a dandy president.

Do you even give a fuck about anyone but yourself? Just asking.

I'm reasonably sure whatever tired answer you give justifying greed will depress me even more.

I will never apologize for doing what's best for my family and for the people whose life savings I've been entrusted to protect. Not only do I have a moral right to do what's best for those who have entrusted me with their savings - and almost all of them are middle class people you think you speak for - I have a legal obligation to do so. The fact that you got burned playing in a man's game you know nothing about might bother me if you weren't such a small, petty, hateful individual.

 

[eflatminor]

Again with the looting! One last time...and please, be specific, what did Bain take that didn't belong to them? If you can't answer that question, I don't know how you expect to be taken seriously.

I use the word Loot exactly correctly.

Take AmPad. Investors were left with worthless paper, workers without jobs, Bain made millions off a very small investment, everyone else got screwed. Looting.

If Bain violated the terms of their investment contract, other investors have a means to seek compensation in the courts. The size of an investment means nothing without the context of WHEN that investment was made. The stock value of all companies, whether publicly traded or not, changes over time. If an investment firm specializes in either new companies or established ones in financial trouble, they are likely to buy in during a stock's lowest values. Small investments go a long way for such companies, believe me! Some investments fail to turn an operation around. The act of liquidating an operation is not in an of itself a violation...or unexpected for that matter when it comes to a company that is no longer competitive. I don't know the specifics behind AmPad, but generally, that's how it works. I do know that our economy would not grow and only the largest most powerful corporations would dominate more than they already do without venture capitalists. The economy grows with competition and without capital, there is no competition. I say cheer the entrepreneur who risks it all and the capitalists that fund his operations. It is from new operations, new ideas and new technology that society progresses.

No retort Joey?

 

[JoeB131]

I use the word Loot exactly correctly.

Take AmPad. Investors were left with worthless paper, workers without jobs, Bain made millions off a very small investment, everyone else got screwed. Looting.

If Bain violated the terms of their investment contract, other investors have a means to seek compensation in the courts. The size of an investment means nothing without the context of WHEN that investment was made. The stock value of all companies, whether publicly traded or not, changes over time. If an investment firm specializes in either new companies or established ones in financial trouble, they are likely to buy in during a stock's lowest values. Small investments go a long way for such companies, believe me! Some investments fail to turn an operation around. The act of liquidating an operation is not in an of itself a violation...or unexpected for that matter when it comes to a company that is no longer competitive. I don't know the specifics behind AmPad, but generally, that's how it works. I do know that our economy would not grow and only the largest most powerful corporations would dominate more than they already do without venture capitalists. The economy grows with competition and without capital, there is no competition. I say cheer the entrepreneur who risks it all and the capitalists that fund his operations. It is from new operations, new ideas and new technology that society progresses.

No retort Joey?

Guy, when I'm ignoring you, it'be because I lost interest.

I'm pretty tired of you scumwads who've turned our economy into a casino where you lose money even if you didn't step into the door.

Our economy is NOT growing. It hasn't been growing since the 1990's, really. The Vulture Capitalists are just picking the meat off the bones of the middle class.

And the problem with you clowns is that you don't realize how dangerous it is. A guy like Obama NEVER would have gotten elected 20 years ago. Now he wins by a comfortable margin and is going to win again in spite of a poor economy.

 

[JoeB131]

It's really distressing to watch a person without a conscience try to justify himself. I'm not sure why I bother, really.

It isn't about me, so much. I'm a survivor. Always have been. Have been through shit that would have made most people nuts, like both of my parents dying when I was young.

But I see a lot of people suffering in this country, and people like you are out there with, "I got mine, screw you". And unfortunately, that seems to be the people who think Mitt Romney would make a dandy president.

Do you even give a fuck about anyone but yourself? Just asking.

I'm reasonably sure whatever tired answer you give justifying greed will depress me even more.

I will never apologize for doing what's best for my family and for the people whose life savings I've been entrusted to protect. Not only do I have a moral right to do what's best for those who have entrusted me with their savings - and almost all of them are middle class people you think you speak for - I have a legal obligation to do so. The fact that you got burned playing in a man's game you know nothing about might bother me if you weren't such a small, petty, hateful individual.

That whole statement works on the assumption that the rest of us volunteer to be part of the slimy game your sort plays. I never signed up for that. I didn't buy a house to "speculate" on it's value, I bought one for a place to live.

 

[Toro]

It's really distressing to watch a person without a conscience try to justify himself. I'm not sure why I bother, really.

It isn't about me, so much. I'm a survivor. Always have been. Have been through shit that would have made most people nuts, like both of my parents dying when I was young.

But I see a lot of people suffering in this country, and people like you are out there with, "I got mine, screw you". And unfortunately, that seems to be the people who think Mitt Romney would make a dandy president.

Do you even give a fuck about anyone but yourself? Just asking.

I'm reasonably sure whatever tired answer you give justifying greed will depress me even more.

I will never apologize for doing what's best for my family and for the people whose life savings I've been entrusted to protect. Not only do I have a moral right to do what's best for those who have entrusted me with their savings - and almost all of them are middle class people you think you speak for - I have a legal obligation to do so. The fact that you got burned playing in a man's game you know nothing about might bother me if you weren't such a small, petty, hateful individual.

That whole statement works on the assumption that the rest of us volunteer to be part of the slimy game your sort plays. I never signed up for that. I didn't buy a house to "speculate" on it's value, I bought one for a place to live.

You should have rented.

There's no way I would have bought a house in 2004. I'd buy a house now.

 

[JoeB131]

You should have rented.

There's no way I would have bought a house in 2004. I'd buy a house now.

No, there were a lot of good reasons to buy a house, not the least of which is that the interest on the mortgage is tax deductable. And you aren't victim to increasing rents if you lock into a good rate.

Point is, you speculators made Trillions in value disappear, and the economy will take decades to recover from it. And then you took billions in bailouts, and paid yourselves bonuses. Which is really adding insult to injury.

The Kangaroo court in front of 12 guys who lost their jobs and houses would be a lot more satisfying- and just.

 

[eflatminor]

If Bain violated the terms of their investment contract, other investors have a means to seek compensation in the courts. The size of an investment means nothing without the context of WHEN that investment was made. The stock value of all companies, whether publicly traded or not, changes over time. If an investment firm specializes in either new companies or established ones in financial trouble, they are likely to buy in during a stock's lowest values. Small investments go a long way for such companies, believe me! Some investments fail to turn an operation around. The act of liquidating an operation is not in an of itself a violation...or unexpected for that matter when it comes to a company that is no longer competitive. I don't know the specifics behind AmPad, but generally, that's how it works. I do know that our economy would not grow and only the largest most powerful corporations would dominate more than they already do without venture capitalists. The economy grows with competition and without capital, there is no competition. I say cheer the entrepreneur who risks it all and the capitalists that fund his operations. It is from new operations, new ideas and new technology that society progresses.

No retort Joey?

Guy, when I'm ignoring you, it'be because I lost interest.

I'm pretty tired of you scumwads who've turned our economy into a casino where you lose money even if you didn't step into the door.

Our economy is NOT growing. It hasn't been growing since the 1990's, really. The Vulture Capitalists are just picking the meat off the bones of the middle class.

And the problem with you clowns is that you don't realize how dangerous it is. A guy like Obama NEVER would have gotten elected 20 years ago. Now he wins by a comfortable margin and is going to win again in spite of a poor economy.

Not one counterpoint to my post, just ad hominen attacks. No need to waste logic and reason on you again. Too bad, I had hoped for a modicum of intelligent exchange with you. Not going to make that mistake again...

 

[JoeB131]

Sorry, man, your argument was the same tired stuff defenders of corporatism always say...

 

[eflatminor]

Sorry, man, your argument was the same tired stuff defenders of corporatism always say...

Then one would think it would easy for you to respond with specificity, logic and reason and that you would be able to refute my points...yet you did not. Also, I never defended corporatism, only capitalism. Big difference.

Best of luck to you.

 

[JoeB131]

Okay, here's the only thing we need to know...

I don't know the specifics behind AmPad, but generally, that's how it works.

Maybe you should find out the specifics, before using a broad brush "Capitalism, hell, yes!" defense.

You should also look up GS Steel. Romney pocketed millions while the rest of us, through the Fed, had to prop up their pension plan.