Anti Corporatist/Authoritarian Coalition?

[dblack]

It's frustrating to see so many lost opportunities for making the world, or at least our nation, a better place. I find considerable agreement from liberals, conservatives and libertarians on issues like curbing the war machine, protecting civil liberties, ending corporate welfare, ending the pointless drug war, pulling back on the police state - yet we remain locked in the phony left/right puppet show. All the while the authoritarians happily dominate the vested power structure.

It's time we find the common ground and save the fine points of ideology for later. Or we may find ourselves without a country to argue over.

 

[GuyPinestra]

You must spread some...blah...blah...blah...

 

[RDD_1210]

It's frustrating to see so many lost opportunities for making the world, or at least our nation, a better place. I find considerable agreement from liberals, conservatives and libertarians on issues like curbing the war machine, protecting civil liberties, ending corporate welfare, ending the pointless drug war, pulling back on the police state - yet we remain locked in the phony left/right puppet show. All the while the authoritarians happily dominate the vested power structure.

It's time we find the common ground and save the fine points of ideology for later. Or we may find ourselves without a country to argue over.

Excellent point but this is how people in power stay in power. They get people arguing over stupid shit through divide and conquer class warfare. Point out some of the things that make people different from each other and let the peasants argue over the table scraps while the elite pull the puppet strings.

 

[Seawytch]

It's frustrating to see so many lost opportunities for making the world, or at least our nation, a better place. I find considerable agreement from liberals, conservatives and libertarians on issues like curbing the war machine, protecting civil liberties, ending corporate welfare, ending the pointless drug war, pulling back on the police state - yet we remain locked in the phony left/right puppet show. All the while the authoritarians happily dominate the vested power structure.

It's time we find the common ground and save the fine points of ideology for later. Or we may find ourselves without a country to argue over.

Your sentiments echo a majority of Americans who want our politicians to compromise and work together.

51 percent of respondents said that politicians should compromise rather than to stick to their beliefs, up from 47 percent in November 2010. Only 28 percent of respondents said that politicians sticking to their beliefs was more important.

Conservatives and Republicans were deeply divided over the issue, but were slightly more likely to agree with the sentiment that “it is more important for political leaders to stick to their beliefs even if little gets done,” with 40 percent and 37 percent agreeing, respectively. Thirty-six percent of both conservatives and Republicans preferred compromise.

Liberals and Democrats, on the other hand, were much more likely to favor compromise, with just over 60 percent of both groups favoring compromise and about 20 percent opposing it.

Tea Party supporters were the most fervently opposed to compromise of any of the groups examined by Gallup. Forty-five percent of tea party supporters said that it is more important for political groups to stick to their beliefs, even if little gets done, while 31 percent responded in favor compromise.
​

Poll: Americans want compromise

Looks like we know where the work needs to get done...

 

[dblack]

I wonder if we might compile, in this thread, a list of policy goals that we could all get behind, regardless of favored ideology (apart from the stated anti-coporatist/authoritarian theme).

I was inspired to start this thread after pondering how an issue like ending loopholes and tax incentives seems to draw wide support across party lines. So, I'll throw that out there as a starter.

What else is there?

 

[Oddball]

It's frustrating to see so many lost opportunities for making the world, or at least our nation, a better place. I find considerable agreement from liberals, conservatives and libertarians on issues like curbing the war machine, protecting civil liberties, ending corporate welfare, ending the pointless drug war, pulling back on the police state - yet we remain locked in the phony left/right puppet show. All the while the authoritarians happily dominate the vested power structure.

It's time we find the common ground and save the fine points of ideology for later. Or we may find ourselves without a country to argue over.

I believe that this has far less to do with any real ideological bent and far more to do with clinging to party affiliation.

Republicans generally campaign on -among other things- fiscal restraint and curbing bureaucracy. Yet in the first six years of the Bush presidency, with a complicit congressional majority, spending levels quickly surpassed those of his "spendthrift liberal" predecessor. We also a got both a brand new cabinet-level bureaucracy, a total federal takeover of airport security, and a new entitlement (Medicare D).....Not a peep out of the party faithful.

Democrats generally campaign on -among other things- civil liberties issues and reigning in the military-industrial complex. Yet we now have a president and congress who have expanded existing wars, engaged in other military actions that are none of America's business. They have also actively supported and expanded the police/snoop state (USAPATRIOT, NDAA and the like), up to and including spying on our own citizens and summarily killing American citizens on foreign soil.....Not a peep out of the party faithful.

That's not do due to any philosophical ideology...That's blind party man allegiance.

 

[Seawytch]

These would top my "list". End the unlimited and anonymous funding of our politicians. Fine and jail any politician taking lobbying money. You lobby with votes and speech (money is not speech). I want politicians that work for MY vote, not lobbyists cash.

I'd also like to end the practice of private prisons.

 

[dblack]

Your sentiments echo a majority of Americans who want our politicians to compromise and work together.

51 percent of respondents said that politicians should compromise rather than to stick to their beliefs, up from 47 percent in November 2010. Only 28 percent of respondents said that politicians sticking to their beliefs was more important.

Conservatives and Republicans were deeply divided over the issue, but were slightly more likely to agree with the sentiment that “it is more important for political leaders to stick to their beliefs even if little gets done,” with 40 percent and 37 percent agreeing, respectively. Thirty-six percent of both conservatives and Republicans preferred compromise.

Liberals and Democrats, on the other hand, were much more likely to favor compromise, with just over 60 percent of both groups favoring compromise and about 20 percent opposing it.

Tea Party supporters were the most fervently opposed to compromise of any of the groups examined by Gallup. Forty-five percent of tea party supporters said that it is more important for political groups to stick to their beliefs, even if little gets done, while 31 percent responded in favor compromise.
​

Poll: Americans want compromise

Looks like we know where the work needs to get done...

Hmm.... You know, I'd actually say it's NOT compromise I'm looking for. At least not in the usual partisan sense of "I'll let you do your little power grab if you let me do mine". I want our reps to stick to their principles - but I want them to be more aware of when their principles overlap. This was one of the things I really liked about Ron Paul. Despite his devout ideological bent, he was always ready to work with Democrats on proposals that lined up with his policy goals. (btw, I don't EVEN want to make this thread about RP, so please forgive the reference).

The point is, what I think we want is focus on areas of agreement, not compromise, per se. So, for example, when Tea Party conservatives and liberal peaceniks agree that our military budget is an insane waste of money, that we don't need to have our fingers in the affairs of every other nation on earth - we should seize on that consensus and push our leadership to abide. That's different than the quid-pro-quo horse trading that is usually held up as "compromise". Our reps can work together without compromising their values or principles.

 

[dblack]

These would top my "list". End the unlimited and anonymous funding of our politicians. Fine and jail any politician taking lobbying money. You lobby with votes and speech (money is not speech). I want politicians that work for MY vote, not lobbyists cash.

I'd also like to end the practice of private prisons.

Campaign finance reform is touchy - there are genuine free speech issues to think about - but it's worth considering. Maybe once we get a list of ideas together we could do a poll or something.

Definitely with you on privatized prisons. Not sure how that EVER seemed like a good idea to anyone.

 

[Oddball]

Hmm.... You know, I'd actually say it's NOT compromise I'm looking for. At least not in the usual partisan sense of "I'll let you do your little power grab if you let me do mine". I want our reps to stick to their principles - but I want them to be more aware of when their principles overlap. This was one of the things I really liked about Ron Paul. Despite his devout ideological bent, he was always ready to work with Democrats on proposals that lined up with his policy goals. (btw, I don't EVEN want to make this thread about RP, so please forgive the reference).

But it's in the -devout if you will- ideology of liberty, limited government and the live-and-let-live ethos where those overlaps occur...Yet Dr. Paul's proposed bills all go down in flames.

This tells me that the overlapping principles of the two parties are far more rooted in authoritarian power grabbing than in any other realm.

 

[GuyPinestra]

Cutting international welfare would be high on my list. There really is no justification for the billions of dollars we send overseas, much of it to countries that hate us and vote against us in the UN.

Getting out of the UN should be up there, too. We don't need an international panel of pantywaists trying to usurp our sovereignty.

 

[Oddball]

These would top my "list". End the unlimited and anonymous funding of our politicians. Fine and jail any politician taking lobbying money. You lobby with votes and speech (money is not speech). I want politicians that work for MY vote, not lobbyists cash.

I'd also like to end the practice of private prisons.

Campaign finance reform is touchy - there are genuine free speech issues to think about - but it's worth considering. Maybe once we get a list of ideas together we could do a poll or something.

Campaign finance (i.e. "public financing") is just another authoritarian power grab.

 

[WillowTree]

It's frustrating to see so many lost opportunities for making the world, or at least our nation, a better place. I find considerable agreement from liberals, conservatives and libertarians on issues like curbing the war machine, protecting civil liberties, ending corporate welfare, ending the pointless drug war, pulling back on the police state - yet we remain locked in the phony left/right puppet show. All the while the authoritarians happily dominate the vested power structure.

It's time we find the common ground and save the fine points of ideology for later. Or we may find ourselves without a country to argue over.

After all the name calling and insults that have been lobbied, I don't see it happening.

 

[WillowTree]

It's frustrating to see so many lost opportunities for making the world, or at least our nation, a better place. I find considerable agreement from liberals, conservatives and libertarians on issues like curbing the war machine, protecting civil liberties, ending corporate welfare, ending the pointless drug war, pulling back on the police state - yet we remain locked in the phony left/right puppet show. All the while the authoritarians happily dominate the vested power structure.

It's time we find the common ground and save the fine points of ideology for later. Or we may find ourselves without a country to argue over.

Your sentiments echo a majority of Americans who want our politicians to compromise and work together.

51 percent of respondents said that politicians should compromise rather than to stick to their beliefs, up from 47 percent in November 2010. Only 28 percent of respondents said that politicians sticking to their beliefs was more important.

Conservatives and Republicans were deeply divided over the issue, but were slightly more likely to agree with the sentiment that “it is more important for political leaders to stick to their beliefs even if little gets done,” with 40 percent and 37 percent agreeing, respectively. Thirty-six percent of both conservatives and Republicans preferred compromise.

Liberals and Democrats, on the other hand, were much more likely to favor compromise, with just over 60 percent of both groups favoring compromise and about 20 percent opposing it.

Tea Party supporters were the most fervently opposed to compromise of any of the groups examined by Gallup. Forty-five percent of tea party supporters said that it is more important for political groups to stick to their beliefs, even if little gets done, while 31 percent responded in favor compromise.
​

Poll: Americans want compromise

Looks like we know where the work needs to get done...

well then maybe you should tell YOUR politicians to stop coming on camera and calling the other side racists, and killers of grandma. just a thought.

 

[dblack]

This tells me that the overlapping principles of the two parties are far more rooted in authoritarian power grabbing than in any other realm.

I think there's a "gravity" to the political process that promotes that ethos in both parties - people who want power naturally aspire to more and more of it. But I don't think authoritarianism is inherent in the views of either the left or the right. It's just that authoritarian ambitions, in the face of a passive defense of people's rights, tend to speak the loudest.

I think there are genuine libertarian values in both parties and we ought to be stoking those flames - rather than letting the partisan pissing match douse them.

 

[mudwhistle]

It's frustrating to see so many lost opportunities for making the world, or at least our nation, a better place. I find considerable agreement from liberals, conservatives and libertarians on issues like curbing the war machine, protecting civil liberties, ending corporate welfare, ending the pointless drug war, pulling back on the police state - yet we remain locked in the phony left/right puppet show. All the while the authoritarians happily dominate the vested power structure.

It's time we find the common ground and save the fine points of ideology for later. Or we may find ourselves without a country to argue over.

Try posting some solutions.

 

[WillowTree]

The first thing that must be done is a Balanced Budget Amendment.


nothing else matters.

 

[dblack]

These would top my "list". End the unlimited and anonymous funding of our politicians. Fine and jail any politician taking lobbying money. You lobby with votes and speech (money is not speech). I want politicians that work for MY vote, not lobbyists cash.

I'd also like to end the practice of private prisons.

Campaign finance reform is touchy - there are genuine free speech issues to think about - but it's worth considering. Maybe once we get a list of ideas together we could do a poll or something.

Campaign finance (i.e. "public financing") is just another authoritarian power grab.

Maybe, maybe not. I think you have to respect the end goal at least - ending corporate dominance over politics. There are ways to achieve that that don't result in state control over our political activities.

 

[dblack]

The first thing that must be done is a Balanced Budget Amendment.


nothing else matters.

Yeah... if we can find a way to make that work, definitely.

One thing I've considered on that front would be really hard for conservatives to swallow. But it would be a very effective way to achieve their goal of smaller government and - in the net - lower taxes:
We should consider automatic, across the board tax increases to make the budget balance. In other words, we should pay for ALL the government we get. That would be painful at first, to be sure, but in the end it would make for far more honest democracy. When we actually see what it's costing us at the end of year, we might begin to reconsider whether we need that shiny new entitlement, or whether we really want our military spending billions protecting client nations.

 

[WillowTree]

These would top my "list". End the unlimited and anonymous funding of our politicians. Fine and jail any politician taking lobbying money. You lobby with votes and speech (money is not speech). I want politicians that work for MY vote, not lobbyists cash.

I'd also like to end the practice of private prisons.

Campaign finance reform is touchy - there are genuine free speech issues to think about - but it's worth considering. Maybe once we get a list of ideas together we could do a poll or something.

Campaign finance (i.e. "public financing") is just another authoritarian power grab.

not really, it was a way to balance the fact that the unions were buying politicians. now the unions have some competition. you never heard a liberal bitching about the unions contributions.. the whine started loud and shrill with Citizens United.