Anti-American VS Anti-government

Discussion in 'Politics' started by ihopehefails, Oct 31, 2009.

  1. ihopehefails
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    ihopehefails BANNED

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    Liberals spend their entire time bashing America and spend every ounce of their intellectual energy in finding new ways they can make America look evil by writing a ton of history about things that have happened such as slavery. Now its one thing to acknowledge or point out the evils of slavery but the entire tone of their criticism is never directed at the institution of slavery, the people who participated in it, or even the laws that allowed it to happen but at the identity of American society itself.

    The only aspect of America that liberals seem never to criticize is the government or at least the authority it holds over people. Its the reason why tea party protesters were criticized by left-leaning CNN as "anti-government" as if being "anti-government" is a great sin yet the criticism of being "anti-government" never gets the same defense from the left as being anti-American.

    Every person has the power to form whatever opinion they have of America they wish even if that opinion is negative but they also have the same power to form an opinion of the general authority of the state as can be formed of American culture, history, and people.

    The left does not seem to want to recognize this fact because those that do criticize the general authority of the state are labeled as "anti-government", "militia members", or "right-wing terrorist". The lack of vigorous defense, fear, and disdain for people who criticize the general authority of the state in the same way those that criticize America reflects a thinking on the left that the authority of the state is a complimentary part of human existence in which no person can be complete without.
     
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    Last edited: Oct 31, 2009
  2. KittenKoder
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    KittenKoder Senior Member

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    No, neo-libs do, true liberals bash the government. ;)
     
  3. ihopehefails
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    Neo-lib...
     
  4. Douger
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    Douger BANNED

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    Anti government and anti Amurkin are the same thing.
    I left that shithole because the idiots residing there "permit and elect" the lifestyle they have.
    They're too brainwashed, doped up and complacent to realize they have voted against their own best interests for over 50 years.
    It's a lost cause.Just as England was and still is.
     

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  5. Skull Pilot
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    Skull Pilot Platinum Member

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    Being anti-government, especially anti big government is as American as it gets.

    This country was founded on principles of small government where the government major role was to protect the rights of the individual to make his own choices; to live as he chose as long as those choices did not infringe on the rights of others.

    Big government doesn't allow this. Most of the money I earn is confiscated by state and federal government agencies that use that money to restrict my ability to live my life as I choose.

    Now we have government seeking to increase its role by regulation of almost every aspect of life in America. If the government thinks you get paid too much then it mandates you be paid less. If government thinks you're fat, then you pay a tax on soda and junk food. If the government thinks you need to see a doctor, then it forces you to buy insurance under the threat of punitive taxation or imprisonment.

    Government serves a purpose and that purpose is not to provide for all people but rather to allow and protect the freedom of people to choose their own way of life.

    Those of us that are anti big government realize that America is internally fragile and that our biggest most pressing threat is not from without but from within.

    Peggy Noonan: We're Governed by Callous Children - WSJ.com


    i do not apologize for being anti big government because that is the mark of an American who believes in freedom and choice.
     
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  6. Diuretic
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    Diuretic Permanently confused

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    And some of you have a go at Karl Marx? Marx wanted humanity to get rid of government but apparently that's a bad thing.

    Have a think about who "big government" or "small government" serves.

    You might see what Marx meant.

    Cui bono.
     
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  7. Skull Pilot
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    Skull Pilot Platinum Member

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    Government is a necessary evil IMO.

    Without some sort of governance with the sole and explicit purpose to protect the rights of the individual, lawlessness will hamper the individual's ability to freely exercise his rights.

    In that sense, there is an optimum size of government. Too small and the rights of individuals are not adequately protected. Too large and the government becomes unwieldy and expensive to the point that people are unable to exercise their rights because the financial means to do so are gone and excessive regulation makes it difficult if not impossible to participate in free enterprise.

    The notion that all men are equal to exercise their rights as they see fit will result in an equality of results is flawed.

    The plain truth is that the assumption that all are free and capable to make their own decisions results in inequality of results. We currently are unable to reconcile that simple fact and are attempting to force an equalization by governmental regulation of results regardless of the choices made.

    You invoke Marx and his theory of exploitation fits here. Bbut it is the government that is exploiting us, not some other social class.

    According to Marx, a laborer is exploited if he or she performs more labor than necessary to produce the goods society consumes. Well government currently collects (confiscates by threat of force that is) upwards of 50% of the average person's income; more than that spent on food clothing and housing combined. this exploitation by government is done with all the best intentions, the equalization of results being uppermost on the list, but as stated above, forced equity of results can only stem from a corresponding lessening of choice and liberty.

    Don't forget that government cannot give to one without taking from another. And the fact that the majority of our income is going to government is the worst kind of exploitation.
     
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  8. Diuretic
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    Good points there, I might need to wander off and do some thinking about them. And the point about Marx and exploitation is well made. Too many people bang on about Marx seeing an injustice in capitalism when he didn't. But he did see exploitation and that's very important. Marx wasn't opposed to labour, he said it was what made us human (among other things) but what alienated our humanity was the exploitation of labour. For Marx, I think this is right, the end of alienation (exploitation) was the goal, that and the withering away of the state as an unnecessary part of the superstructure of a society where labour wasn't alienated.

    Anyway, good points.
     
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  9. code1211
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    code1211 Senior Member

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    Skull Pilot inserted the WSJ article from Peggy Noonan, one of my personal favorites by the by, and this is the concluding paragraph from what she said:

    "We are governed at all levels by America's luckiest children, sons and daughters of the abundance, and they call themselves optimists but they're not optimists—they're unimaginative. They don't have faith, they've just never been foreclosed on. They are stupid and they are callous, and they don't mind it when people become disheartened. They don't even notice."

    People like Noonan are able to see to the core of a problem. She once again has. If you did not read the link in Skull's post read it here:

    Peggy Noonan: We're Governed by Callous Children - WSJ.com

    These are scary times folks. Our leaders don't seem to "get it". Don't seem to understand what is happening, how to get through it, how to change it, how to help, when to act act, when to sit down, who has the answers, where to go for help.

    They see TEA Party folks and attack the folks as members of a pre-defined enemy rather than wonder why the folks are motivated. They don't need to wonder. They already "know". If a cop on the street bangs a head of a black kid with no evidence because he doesn't need to wonder, he already knows, what do we call this?

    These are sacary times. A nebulous menace is recognized in the frnges of our minds and we, as a nation, are coming quickly to a cross roads at which we will give up hope and hand over the reigns to the government or stand up and take control. When the government has complete control and rewards of all kinds are limited at the high end while failure is prevented at the low end, where will the achievers escape to?

    In the past, that place was America. Not so much any more. Maybe Dubai?

    What will the rest of us do when the achievers have left?
     
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  10. NYcarbineer
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    NYcarbineer Diamond Member

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    It was the government that decided, foolishly, to invade Iraq. Millions of liberals objected to that action. How were they treated by the pro-war right??
     
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