Answer this

[5stringJeff]

I think you put it very well here. Mary was born without original sin so she could carry the perfect sinless Jesus and give him life.

The concept of the Immaculate Conception has little, if any, biblical foundation.

 

[no1tovote4]

The concept of the Immaculate Conception has little, if any, biblical foundation.

What are you talking about?

Matthew 1:18 says that she was Pregnant of the Holy Spirit.

Link to Matthew Chapter 1.
http://bible.gospelcom.net/passage/?book_id=47&chapter=1&version=31

18This is how the birth of Jesus Christ came about: His mother Mary was pledged to be married to Joseph, but before they came together, she was found to be with child through the Holy Spirit. 19Because Joseph her husband was a righteous man and did not want to expose her to public disgrace, he had in mind to divorce her quietly.
20But after he had considered this, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream and said, “Joseph son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary home as your wife, because what is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit. 21She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus,[c] because he will save his people from their sins.”

22All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had said through the prophet: 23“The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel”[d]–which means, “God with us.”

In this biblical context there is certainly a Biblical reference to a Virgin birth, or immaculate conception.

Also in Luke Chapter 1.
http://bible.gospelcom.net/passage/?book_id=49&chapter=1&version=31

29Mary was greatly troubled at his words and wondered what kind of greeting this might be. 30But the angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary, you have found favor with God. 31You will be with child and give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus. 32He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David, 33and he will reign over the house of Jacob forever; his kingdom will never end.”

34“How will this be,” Mary asked the angel, “since I am a virgin?”

35The angel answered, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called[c] the Son of God. 36Even Elizabeth your relative is going to have a child in her old age, and she who was said to be barren is in her sixth month. 37For nothing is impossible with God.”

I can go on. The Biblical implications are clear that Jesus was born of a Virgin. It was prophesied in the Old Testament in Isaiah Chapter 7.
http://bible.gospelcom.net/passage/?book_id=29&chapter=7&version=31

14 Therefore the Lord himself will give you [c] a sign: The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and [d] will call him Immanuel.

 

[5stringJeff]

The Immaculate Conception is the concept that Mary had no original sin. This is different from the Virgin Birth of Jesus.

I absolutely agree that Mary was a virgin when she gave birth to Jesus, and that she became pregnant through the miracle of the Holy Spirit, just like the scriptures you posted describe. It is a central point of Christian theology.

However, I do not agree that Mary was miraculously made into a sinless person. I also disagree that she remained a virgin, as Jesus had several biological brothers and sisters.

 

[no1tovote4]

The Immaculate Conception is the concept that Mary had no original sin. This is different from the Virgin Birth of Jesus.

I absolutely agree that Mary was a virgin when she gave birth to Jesus, and that she became pregnant through the miracle of the Holy Spirit, just like the scriptures you posted describe. It is a central point of Christian theology.

However, I do not agree that Mary was miraculously made into a sinless person. I also disagree that she remained a virgin, as Jesus had several biological brothers and sisters.

Okay, works for me. That was pretty much what I wanted to know. Yes there is no way that Mary herself could be without sin. "For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God."

As for Jesus having many brothers and sisters that is clearly true. In the Bible it consistently speaks of Mary, mother of James, when speaking of Mary Christ's mother. You can see many references to Christ's brother James specifically in the Bible.

The term immaculate conception that I was taught meant that she was impregnated without sex so that Christ would not have the original sin. That is the reason a virgin gave birth to Christ, otherwise He too would have sin of His own.

 

[Bonnie]

The concept of the Immaculate Conception has little, if any, biblical foundation.

Well therin lies the difference between Catholicism and other Chistian faiths.

 

[Bonnie]

The Immaculate Conception is the concept that Mary had no original sin. This is different from the Virgin Birth of Jesus.

I absolutely agree that Mary was a virgin when she gave birth to Jesus, and that she became pregnant through the miracle of the Holy Spirit, just like the scriptures you posted describe. It is a central point of Christian theology.

However, I do not agree that Mary was miraculously made into a sinless person. I also disagree that she remained a virgin, as Jesus had several biological brothers and sisters.

Catholicism teaches that in order to be worthy to carry Jesus, Mary needed to be without sin, also she is the only other person to be taken bodily into heaven besides Jesus. Yes she obviously was not a virgin her whole life as she was married to Joseph and had a normal loving husband and wife relationship with him as they were supposed to.

 

[Arabian]

Was God ever a man? I am having a debate on some other forums and im curious what the people here say. Im surprised at the answers. particularly from christians

i think 1st that we should ask did any one assume that he saw the god ??
no human can manage this whole world

no human can know what will go next
no human can feed the every creature in this world
no human can even a creature ,,, lots of noooo here

qur'an sura 21 The Prophets (Anbiya)
If there were other gods in either [Heaven or Earth] besides God [Alone], they would both dissolve in chaos. Glory be to God, Lord of the Throne, beyond what they describe! (22)

 

[Bonnie]

i think 1st that we should ask did any one assume that he saw the god ??
no human can manage this whole world

no human can know what will go next
no human can feed the every creature in this world
no human can even a creature ,,, lots of noooo here

A human can if he's also God. He can do anything!!

 

[no1tovote4]

i think 1st that we should ask did any one assume that he saw the god ??
no human can manage this whole world

no human can know what will go next
no human can feed the every creature in this world
no human can even a creature ,,, lots of noooo here

So you are saying it would be impossible for God to make himself human? You are denying many people's religion with that. I understand you have your faith, but they are people of the book and should not be denied theirs. They are not even infidels.

 

[Arabian]

A human can if he's also God. He can do anything!!

so point at one of them
let me ask ,, if we talk that a human can be if he only a god
so Jinns shall say the sam
and things also and animals
why we assume that we are a lone
there are angles and Jinns and human and insect
as we said there cant be more than one god in the uneverse cause they may make lots of disasters

 

[no1tovote4]

so point at one of them
let me ask ,, if we talk that a human can be if he only a god
so Jinns shall say the sam
and things also and animals
why we assume that we are a lone
there are angles and Jinns and human and insect
as we said there cant be more than one god in the uneverse cause they may make lots of disasters

Jesus Christ.

Didn't take long to find one to point at. While Christianity is not my religion it is clear that it is what they believe. Speaking of jinns and attempting to associate them with God in the body of Christ is simply as I said before denying their religion and beliefs. Even the Koran doesn't do this.

Here is a nice website about it for your perusal.

http://www.harunyahya.com/32terrorism_people_soc09.html

People of the Book are not infidels according to the Koran, why should you treat them as such by denying their beliefs?

 

[Bonnie]

so point at one of them
let me ask ,, if we talk that a human can be if he only a god
so Jinns shall say the sam
and things also and animals
why we assume that we are a lone
there are angles and Jinns and human and insect
as we said there cant be more than one god in the uneverse cause they may make lots of disasters

I'd love to address this but I have no idea what you are trying to say???????

 

[5stringJeff]

so point at one of them
let me ask ,, if we talk that a human can be if he only a god
so Jinns shall say the sam
and things also and animals
why we assume that we are a lone
there are angles and Jinns and human and insect
as we said there cant be more than one god in the uneverse cause they may make lots of disasters

No one is talking about more than one God. What Christianity says is that Jesus Christ is God.

 

[Eightball]

Seems like Jesus was both God and Man. That's a real mind twister, but of course we're dealing with the creator of the universe, so we shouldn't try to break down the physics of this with our "pea" size human minds. lol

John 1:1...In the beginning was the Word(Jesus), and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:14...And the Word(Jesus) became Flesh(His birth/incarnation/humanity), and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.

Now if you want to call God a liar, you'll have to do some major scripture twisting. The above scripture is about a straight-forwards as you can have.

Regards, Eightballsidepocket

P.S. Interesting and sad note: The Watch Tower or Jehovah's Witness Bible, called the New World Translation, has purposefully changed John 1:1 to say,....In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was "a" god.

Notice the subtle difference. The J.W.'s have removed any vestige of Jesus being God. They lower cased the "g" in God, and also changed the context with calling Him(Jesus) "a god". Actually Watch Tower considereds Jesus merely another created being. They claim that He is the angel Michael. None of which is substantiated in scripture.

In the 14 verse, where Jesus is referred to as the only begotten of God, the Mormons diverse from scripture by teaching that Jesus had siblings in heaven before his human/earthly birth. The blasphemous part is that Joseph Smith taught that Satan or Lucifer was Jesus's heavenly sibling!

Most beginning Mormons aren't familiar with this teaching, until they are raised through the church and more established in this unbiblical system. Most Mormons don't realize how much of their Temple ceremonies, hand shakes and symbolism is straight from Freemasonry, as Joseph Smith Jr.(their founder) was a 33 degree Freemason. This includes blood oaths........etc.

Bottom line is this. The way to tear down Christianity is to tear down the diety of Christ. You will find that all Christian cults, that diverge from accurate scripture interpretation will usually distort or change Christ's attributes or true identity.

 

[Bonnie]

Eightball, that really is the cruxt, it is faith and the word. The whole concept of God is mystifying and something which maybe we don't NEED to know everything, as that would probably mean we have left this mortal coil and now we know all the mysteries of the universe. I can wait personally. :halo:

 

[Avatar4321]

i think 1st that we should ask did any one assume that he saw the god ??
no human can manage this whole world

no human can know what will go next
no human can feed the every creature in this world
no human can even a creature ,,, lots of noooo here

see this is where you and I differ. I think God is all powerful and can become a man if He so choose and that He has become a man to redeem his people.

 

[Bonnie]

see this is where you and I differ. I think God is all powerful and can become a man if He so choose and that He has become a man to redeem his people.

Good point!

Think about it God created us, how would it be so hard to believe he couldn't do the same for us???

 

[Eightball]

That is the crux of it. If God is omnipotent, then He can choose to not be omnipotent, and limit himself to being encapsuled in Human flesh, and live within the constraints of His own created physical laws.

That's the amazing definition of Jesus's life. He came to fully identify with mankind, and fulfilling the need for an unblemished sacrifice, "once and for all".

Regards, Eightballsidepocket

 

[Arabian]

Jesus Christ.

Didn't take long to find one to point at. While Christianity is not my religion it is clear that it is what they believe. Speaking of jinns and attempting to associate them with God in the body of Christ is simply as I said before denying their religion and beliefs. Even the Koran doesn't do this.

Here is a nice website about it for your perusal.

http://www.harunyahya.com/32terrorism_people_soc09.html

People of the Book are not infidels according to the Koran, why should you treat them as such by denying their beliefs?

1st of all hii no1tovote4
i didnt attack anyone believes and yep the people of book aren't athiest
and i dint say so
it was a question one asked it and im answering it acoording to sence and logic
i dont think that jesus said that he is the son of the God according to my reads
some of apostles he even wasnt he was attacking them an say that they are ignorant any way what ever he was his name was saul (saint baul) he made some corruption or may be as he said some modification in the bible in order to make the Gentiles follow the religion of the he changed some aspects in the jesus true message,, we all know that the gentiles worship human like Zeues or jeubetr and vinues this gods
and he said so about Jesus just to make them follow the Christianity

Shortly after the departure of Jesus (pbuh), a Jew named Saul of Tarsus persecutes Jesus' followers every way he knows how. By his own admission, he does his utmost to utterly waste the Church and to wipe the religion of Jesus from the face of the earth and the minds of men. He has never met Jesus (pbuh) in person.
Suddenly Saul claims to be receiving "visions" from Jesus (pbuh). The apostle Barnabas takes him under his wing, and through Barnabas he is accepted by the rest of the apostles. Barnabas then travels with him extensively until his reputation as a persecutor and killer of Christians is replaced with one of a true convert.
Now Saul parts ways with the apostle of Jesus (pbuh), Barnabas, and decides to preach to the Gentiles. He claims that the apostles of Jesus (pbuh) are lazy, misguided, hypocrites. He claims that it was necessary for him to constantly guide the apostles out of their ignorance into the truth of God which he was receiving in his "visions." He openly claims that he learned nothing from the apostles, and every single word he preached was from direct divine inspiration. The neighboring gentiles hated the Jews with such a passion that he found it all but impossible to convince them to accept the Judaism that Jesus (pbuh) practiced his whole life and taught his apostles to carry on after him until the end of time.
Saul readily admits in the Bible in many places that he was willing to do anything without exception in order to convert the gentiles. He claims that everything has been made lawful for him. For this reason, Saul begins to compromise with the pagan gentiles and simplify the religion of Jesus for them in order to make it more appealing to them that they might convert.
Saul continues to compromise with the gentiles and mold the religion of Jesus (pbuh) closer and closer to their established beliefs in order to gain their conversion. In the end, all that he requires of them is "faith" without work. The pagan gentiles he is preaching to worship many "sons of almighty Jupiter or Zeus" and other such gods. Among them are such as Attis, Adonis, Dionysus, etc. They believe that these pagan gods had died for their sins and been resurrected. Saul now explains to them that Jesus (pbuh) was not merely a normal human prophet but a "Son of God" and that this "Son of God" died in atonement for the sins of all mankind. The Gentiles immediately see the parallels and the great degree of similarity with that which they already believe. All they have to do is change a few labels. In this manner, Saul manages to convince the Greeks (and other gentiles) to accept the "religion of Jesus." This is because, unlike the Jews, the religion of the Greeks already accepts "Trinities," and "father gods" and "son gods," and the death of gods, and the resurrection of gods, and the incarnation of gods, and divine savior gods, and the eating of the flesh of gods, and the drinking of the blood of gods...etc. All of these concepts are old news to them. He becomes a great leader among them and is named "Saint Paul."

And am so happy cause you read to harun Yahya the Turkish author cause he is my favorite too
And we may just exchange opinions about his books ,,, cause I like him soo and here is Egypt there aren’t lots of people read for him
And finally I found you its AMAZING
And yeah this information I get it from
http://www.sultan.org
you may read or have a look
salam
and im talking seriouse about harun yahia books and audi if you wanna share information ya3ny

and yeah i didnt mean to attack any one believes i just saying what i read and its just logically conversation away from any religion
salam again

 

[5stringJeff]

i dont think that jesus said that he is the son of the God according to my reads some of apostles he even wasnt he was attacking them an say that they are ignorant any way what ever he was his name was saul (saint baul) he made some corruption or may be as he said some modification in the bible in order to make the Gentiles follow the religion of the he changed some aspects in the jesus true message,, we all know that the gentiles worship human like Zeues or jeubetr and vinues this gods
and he said so about Jesus just to make them follow the Christianity

Arabian, here's the problem in your post. Jesus did claim to be the Son of God.

Matthew 16:13-18: When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, “Who do people say the Son of Man is?” They replied, “Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets.” “But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?” Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven.

Matthew 26:62-64: Then the high priest stood up and said to Jesus, “Are you not going to answer? What is this testimony that these men are bringing against you?” But Jesus remained silent. The high priest said to him, “I charge you under oath by the living God: Tell us if you are the Christ, the Son of God.” “Yes, it is as you say,” Jesus replied. “But I say to all of you: In the future you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.”

John 3:16 (Jesus speaking): “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."


As far as Paul distorting the Bible to make Christianity more palatible, it's simply just not true. Paul preached the same gospel to the Gentiles that Peter and John were preaching to the Jews: salvation through the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.