Another traitor in our midst?

Originally posted by deaddude
" So which is it then? Is it that the case can be made islam is peaceful and the followers are the norm, radicals are violent?

Or is it that islam is violent and people who follow it do so either peacefully OR VIOLENTLY.

You cannot have it both ways, and you cannot even have it the second way if the followers all follow the same advocated behavior."
---------------

Sure you can, some muslims (non-radicals) follow their religion peacefully, others (the radicals like al Qaeda) follow it violently.

It is IMPOSSIBLE to follow the following peacefully.
Mohammed:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
He who dies without having fought, or having felt it to be his duty, will die guilty of a kind of hypocracy....There is no emigration after the Conquest, but only jihad...so when you are summoned to fight, go forth....The last hour will not come before the Muslims fight the Jews and the Muslims kill them.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


-Mishkat al Masabih Sh. M. Ashraf (1990), pp. 147, 721, 810-11, 1130 etc.
and:
-Surah 9:5

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fight in the way of Allah against those who fight against you, but begin not hostilities. Lo! Allah loveth not aggressors. And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out...But if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving, Merciful.

Therefore it would appear you need to read BOTH the Bible AND Koran before you spout off about knowing anything about either.

Some Christians (the non-radicals) pracitice their religion peacefully, others ( the radicals like the KKK) practice it violently.

Then they (the violent Cristians) aren't following the texts. Just as the peaceful muslims aren't following theirs.

Again, you prove my point.

Since the koran defines its followers by those who follow the book, and Chrisitanity defines its followers by those who have a relationship with Christ, you are comparing apples and oranges.
 
"What are you talking about?

Point to ONE Biblical reference to that."

Not a biblical reference, it is a historical reference, but of course you already knew that because you DO know youre facts and youwere just being argumentative.



"One religion claims a following based on completely PEACEFUL actions promoted by their text while the other following claims a VIOLENT set of actions dictated by theirs." Quote from new guy in this thread


"A Cristian God is a JUST God and cannot be absolutely peaceful unless acting without justice. Jesus created a way for followers to redeem themselves and be peaceful while taking the full brunt of Gods justice." Quote from new guy later in the thread

Now youre contradicting yourself, unless of course you were refering to Christians as the violent and Islamics as the peaceful.

"One religion claims a following based on completely PEACEFUL actions promoted by their text"


Well as I recall the Old Testament is part of that text which means it would have to be entirely peaceful, unless of couse the text as a whole is not entirely peaceful, which would mean that the actions promoted by it are not entirely peaceful which would then mean that christians aren't entirely peaceful.
 
Originally posted by deaddude
"What are you talking about?

NewGuy:point to ONE Biblical reference to that."

DeadDude:Not a biblical reference, it is a historical reference, but of course you already knew that because you DO know youre facts and youwere just being argumentative.

Wrong. Realize that you are lcearly diverting the topic when you cannot answer in context. Your statement was:
Since you DO know your facts then you know that the Muslims are one of the so called People of the Book, in other words they believe in the Old Testament.

If your proof of this "they are people of the book" believing in old testament is just HISTORY with no Biblical evidence, there is no reason to claim any tie to Biblical teachings, followings, or justifications. You are misinforming based on the twisting of statements in the koran referencing Christ as a prophet, and then trying to make up history and fictionally create a "holy" connection.

NewGuy:"One religion claims a following based on completely PEACEFUL actions promoted by their text while the other following claims a VIOLENT set of actions dictated by theirs." Quote from new guy in this thread

"A Cristian God is a JUST God and cannot be absolutely peaceful unless acting without justice. Jesus created a way for followers to redeem themselves and be peaceful while taking the full brunt of Gods justice." Quote from new guy later in the thread

DeadDude:Now youre contradicting yourself, unless of course you were refering to Christians as the violent and Islamics as the peaceful.

Will you just READ? I SAID, Jesus created a new covenant. "Christians" cannot follow Old Testament and call themselves Christians. Christians cannot follow NEW Testament and be Christians. They must have a relationship with Christ to be Christians. They are then secondarilly called to keep the commandments and follow His teachings.

AGAIN.....Read.

"One religion claims a following based on completely PEACEFUL actions promoted by their text"


Well as I recall the Old Testament is part of that text which means it would have to be entirely peaceful, unless of couse the text as a whole is not entirely peaceful, which would mean that the actions promoted by it are not entirely peaceful which would then mean that christians aren't entirely peaceful.

Well, obviously you don't know what you are talking about. You have not brought up ONE reference in Bible nor koran to prove any point. Not only that, you have no understanding of the context of either, and do not understand history as well.

All you have is misguided logic with no foundational reference.

I explained to you the covenants, and you ignored it completely. You then try to go through a false proof on the ignoring of them.

Again, prove your point.
 
Originally posted by DKSuddeth
jumping the gun a bit, arent we? the only connection specified so far is that he helped with a child custody issue. let the investigation run its course before we tie him to the stake, eh?

Yes, Yes, a thousand times yes!!!!!!!!! Not counting my honeymoon I never thought there'd be a reason to hear that.

Since you are a pissed off liberal, can you please cc that thought to the leftinistas in congress IRT the soldiers and the allegations of abuse. IF I send it, they will complain that it's only a realist quoting the UCMJ and Constitutional sentiments about "innocent until proven guilty".
 
originally posted by Palestinian Jew
That is because Al-Quieda IS a radical Islamic sect. If the news were reporting on the terrorist actions of the KKK you would find that the religious affiliation would be overwhelmingly protestant. Now are all protestants racist, idiot, cross-burners? No. Are all Muslims Terrorists? No.

PJ, I disagree with your analogy.

The KKK is a group of racists. It is likely that most of them are of one protestant denomination or another. Their membership in the KKK and in a church are unrelated facts that cannot be linked as you propose. The KKK has certain beliefs. These beliefs are NOT based on the teaching of whatever religion to which the members of the KKK may adhere. The philosophies of the KKK are not based on the teachings of any preacher. They are not incited to racist violence by the bible. They are simply racists who happen to go to church.

Now as you yourself pointed out, "Al-Qaeda is a radical islamic sect". Ergo, by your own admission, at least that portion of moslems are terrorists. They are terrorists in large part, if not exclusively, due to the teachings of their religion. They maim, murder and commit sundry atrocities at the urging of their religious leaders. They are not violent thugs who HAPPEN to be moslems. They are violent thugs BECAUSE they are moslems and because their religion exhorts them to violence.

Now if my local southern Baptist preacher gets up this Sunday and urges us all to get our guns and hunt down and murder as many moslems as we can find, we would run his butt out of town.

But when an ayotollah or an imman exhorts violence against "infidels", many, if not most, of his flock go and pick up their kaloshnikovs.

I agree with your assessment that not ALL moslems are terrorists. But I do believe that the huge majority certainly have that potential.
 
Originally posted by Palestinian Jew
Tell me the exact part of the bible the falling away is under and I will read it. I've read the book of Revelation 3 times and made it to book 7 of the Left Behind series, I know that nobody knows what that means, its all educated guessing.


try 2 thessalonians chapter 2
and 1 thessalonians chapter 5 verses 1-11
and the book of revelation (which you have read)

go back and read revelation chapter 17:9-18
also read revelation chapter 12 (the woman is israel,the child is jesus,and the dragon is satan)

interesting point is revelation 9:16 the size of the army of the king of the east is 200 million.

to put it all in perspective see daniel 9:24-27
 
PJ, I disagree with your analogy.

I didn't make up the analogy, though I think it can be defended. Most of the time I'm on these boards, I am using one of the University of Arkansas's computers, usually 3-4 different ones a day, I guess I rarely logout and the computers display which websites have been visited recently, so it is quite easy for another student to use my account.

I thought the analogy was alright. You say that the KKK and their church are unrelated, but they weren't always. There is one part of the bible that says you can own slaves as long as you do X, so members of the KKK were justifying their actions with religion, a perverted form of christianity exactly like you see with al qaeda.
 
try 2 thessalonians chapter 2
and 1 thessalonians chapter 5 verses 1-11
and the book of revelation (which you have read)

go back and read revelation chapter 17:9-18
also read revelation chapter 12 (the woman is israel,the child is jesus,and the dragon is satan)

interesting point is revelation 9:16 the size of the army of the king of the east is 200 million.

to put it all in perspective see daniel 9:24-27

Thanks. I will read all of these tonight, besides revelation, to see what they have to do with catholocism not being a part of christianity.
 
also the bible details 7 world powers (see again revelation 17:10).
egypt,assyria,babylon,medo-persia,greece and rome with revived roman empire under the anti-christ).
see daniel chapter 2 (nebuchadnezzar's dream)
 
2 timothy 3:5 describes religiousity without the relationship one forms with christ at the point of surrender to god and admitting our guilt and accepting the sacrifice christ made on the cross as complete payment for all our sins past,present and future.
 
Originally posted by DKSuddeth
jumping the gun a bit, arent we? the only connection specified so far is that he helped with a child custody issue. let the investigation run its course before we tie him to the stake, eh?


Ummm, how bout his fingerprints on a bag that contained detonators used in the train bombings, found in Madrid????:rolleyes: :eek: :confused:
 
Originally posted by NewGuy
Boy. It is a good thing islam is a peaceful religion and that religion plays no part in the terrorism.

:rolleyes:


Schew, thank God, there for a minute I jumped to the conclusion it is a hatefull spitefull anti-anything not islam religeon that wanted to kill all of us who will not convert.;) :D Oh well , on with the Crusade...:D Mooslum bitches beware or be dead!:p:
 
"Boy. It is a good thing islam is a peaceful religion and that religion plays no part in the terrorism."


Boy, its a good thing the Lord Jesus supports the US in its massacre of thousands of Iraqi and Afgani civilians. How peaceful. Jesus would be so proud of all the children we've killed.
 
Originally posted by SpidermanTuba
"Boy. It is a good thing islam is a peaceful religion and that religion plays no part in the terrorism."


Boy, its a good thing the Lord Jesus supports the US in its massacre of thousands of Iraqi and Afgani civilians. How peaceful. Jesus would be so proud of all the children we've killed.

Who ever said that?
 
Originally posted by SpidermanTuba
Ole Shrubby said so, he said God told him to invade Iraq and set up his own dictatorship.

Enlighten us with your wisdom as to who shrubby is. Also since i already know who you mean, provide a link where he said this was because god told him.
 
Do I have to do all your research for you? It's not hard to find.


" God told me to strike at al Qaeda and I struck them, and then he instructed me to strike at Saddam [ Hussein], which I did, and now I am determined to solve the problem in the Middle East. If you help me I will act, and if not, the elections will come and I will have to focus on them." - George aWol Bush

LINK
 

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