Another poll on seriousness of possible default

Fortunately we don't govern by push polls.
In fact a temporary default in exchange for permanent gov't cuts would be a wonderful bargain. The US is going to make good on its obligations. No one doubts that. We aren't Greece. Yet.
People are responding to Obama and the Dums demagoging the issue, promising to starve Granny if the GOP doesn't cave on raising taxes in a recession.

Not so fast Rabbi!

Top economist: Raise the debt ceiling or blow the recovery 'out of the water'

“If we get to August 2 and there is no debt ceiling limit, and there has to be significant spending cuts – even if Congress and the administration reverse themselves days later, I think the damage will have been serious, and we probably would be thrown into a recession,” Zandi said.
Top economist: Raise the debt ceiling or blow the recovery 'out of the water' - CSMonitor.com

The US still hasn't recovered from the last recession and even if the debt ceiling is addressed quickly after August 2nd, we may already be in a hole we will not be able to dig out for years!
Exactly how much further do you want the US economy to sink?
And while the US sinks, other countries enjoy the spoils. Already international corporations are not investing in their American operations because of lack of demand, more jobs are going overseas. Another recession would accelerate that movement away from the US.
It will take years for the US economy to recover and by that time the US will be behind the eight ball.

And raising the debt ceiling will help how ?

From the articile about Mark Zandi, chief economist of Moody's Analytics thoughts.

" Why would even a short government shutdown have such a major impact? It's psychology, Zandi says.

“The collective psyche is extremely fragile, I think. As I talk to business people in every industry across the country, they are extraordinarily nervous. That’s why if anything goes slightly wrong, the negative consequences are amplified.”

Business executives are not the only ones whose confidence is shaky. The Conference Board, a business research group, said Wednesday that confidence among U.S. consumers unexpectedly fell in June to a seven-month low. One factor in declining consumer confidence: a tough job market. The percent of respondents expecting an increase in job availability fell to the lowest in 11 months, the business group said."

Top economist: Raise the debt ceiling or blow the recovery 'out of the water' - CSMonitor.com

Raising the ceiling debt would help investment. As it's well documented, Wall Street is extremely nervous about the repercussions of not raising the debt ceiling so are Big Businesses and small businesses. That's a no-brainer. It would help prevent a second recession. Isn't that enough?
If people would listen to non-partisan economists instead of talking heads, who are driven by ideology, people would have a better grasp of reality.
The Economist is a conservative economic magazine, you'd be very, very hard pressed to find any article that encourages not raising the debt ceiling. Check it out and learn.
 
Not so fast Rabbi!

Top economist: Raise the debt ceiling or blow the recovery 'out of the water'

“If we get to August 2 and there is no debt ceiling limit, and there has to be significant spending cuts – even if Congress and the administration reverse themselves days later, I think the damage will have been serious, and we probably would be thrown into a recession,” Zandi said.
Top economist: Raise the debt ceiling or blow the recovery 'out of the water' - CSMonitor.com

The US still hasn't recovered from the last recession and even if the debt ceiling is addressed quickly after August 2nd, we may already be in a hole we will not be able to dig out for years!
Exactly how much further do you want the US economy to sink?
And while the US sinks, other countries enjoy the spoils. Already international corporations are not investing in their American operations because of lack of demand, more jobs are going overseas. Another recession would accelerate that movement away from the US.
It will take years for the US economy to recover and by that time the US will be behind the eight ball.

And raising the debt ceiling will help how ?

From the articile about Mark Zandi, chief economist of Moody's Analytics thoughts.

" Why would even a short government shutdown have such a major impact? It's psychology, Zandi says.

“The collective psyche is extremely fragile, I think. As I talk to business people in every industry across the country, they are extraordinarily nervous. That’s why if anything goes slightly wrong, the negative consequences are amplified.”

Business executives are not the only ones whose confidence is shaky. The Conference Board, a business research group, said Wednesday that confidence among U.S. consumers unexpectedly fell in June to a seven-month low. One factor in declining consumer confidence: a tough job market. The percent of respondents expecting an increase in job availability fell to the lowest in 11 months, the business group said."

Top economist: Raise the debt ceiling or blow the recovery 'out of the water' - CSMonitor.com

Raising the ceiling debt would help investment. As it's well documented, Wall Street is extremely nervous about the repercussions of not raising the debt ceiling so are Big Businesses and small businesses. That's a no-brainer. It would help prevent a second recession. Isn't that enough?
If people would listen to non-partisan economists instead of talking heads, who are driven by ideology, people would have a better grasp of reality.
The Economist is a conservative economic magazine, you'd be very, very hard pressed to find any article that encourages not raising the debt ceiling. Check it out and learn.

So MArk Zandi is now a psychologist too?
 
Need to prioritize, the US takes in something like 200,000,000,000 a month and the debt payment is something like 20,000,000,000.
But...nothing like putting the fear into the uninformed, it sure shows when polled.

The GOP should know about the tactics of fear.......I mean, they've been using them since Obama got elected.
 
Fortunately we don't govern by push polls.
In fact a temporary default in exchange for permanent gov't cuts would be a wonderful bargain. The US is going to make good on its obligations. No one doubts that. We aren't Greece. Yet.
People are responding to Obama and the Dums demagoging the issue, promising to starve Granny if the GOP doesn't cave on raising taxes in a recession.

Not so fast Rabbi!

Top economist: Raise the debt ceiling or blow the recovery 'out of the water'

“If we get to August 2 and there is no debt ceiling limit, and there has to be significant spending cuts – even if Congress and the administration reverse themselves days later, I think the damage will have been serious, and we probably would be thrown into a recession,” Zandi said.
Top economist: Raise the debt ceiling or blow the recovery 'out of the water' - CSMonitor.com

The US still hasn't recovered from the last recession and even if the debt ceiling is addressed quickly after August 2nd, we may already be in a hole we will not be able to dig out for years!
Exactly how much further do you want the US economy to sink?
And while the US sinks, other countries enjoy the spoils. Already international corporations are not investing in their American operations because of lack of demand, more jobs are going overseas. Another recession would accelerate that movement away from the US.
It will take years for the US economy to recover and by that time the US will be behind the eight ball.

Is that supposed to prove something? Just because one guy says something doesnt make it gospel.

Counter him with someone who is on equal ground regarding economic knowledge. It's that easy. And it's not just him. As I suggested, go to The Economist, which is a conservative entity.
 
Not so fast Rabbi!

Top economist: Raise the debt ceiling or blow the recovery 'out of the water'

“If we get to August 2 and there is no debt ceiling limit, and there has to be significant spending cuts – even if Congress and the administration reverse themselves days later, I think the damage will have been serious, and we probably would be thrown into a recession,” Zandi said.
Top economist: Raise the debt ceiling or blow the recovery 'out of the water' - CSMonitor.com

The US still hasn't recovered from the last recession and even if the debt ceiling is addressed quickly after August 2nd, we may already be in a hole we will not be able to dig out for years!
Exactly how much further do you want the US economy to sink?
And while the US sinks, other countries enjoy the spoils. Already international corporations are not investing in their American operations because of lack of demand, more jobs are going overseas. Another recession would accelerate that movement away from the US.
It will take years for the US economy to recover and by that time the US will be behind the eight ball.

Is that supposed to prove something? Just because one guy says something doesnt make it gospel.

Counter him with someone who is on equal ground regarding economic knowledge. It's that easy. And it's not just him. As I suggested, go to The Economist, which is a conservative entity.

Street economist says default better than cuts - MarketWatch

There ya go.
queuing carping irrelevance in 3..2..1...
 
Is that supposed to prove something? Just because one guy says something doesnt make it gospel.

Counter him with someone who is on equal ground regarding economic knowledge. It's that easy. And it's not just him. As I suggested, go to The Economist, which is a conservative entity.

Street economist says default better than cuts - MarketWatch

There ya go.
queuing carping irrelevance in 3..2..1...

From your linked article,,,,
[B]His view stands at odds with the rest of Wall Street[/B], which has frequently communicated to congressional Republicans as well as the White House a desire to see the $14.3 trillion debt ceiling increased.
In other words, Ethan Harris is in the minority. Thanks for making my point.
 
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Bush Jr. raised the debt ceiling SEVEN TIMES in his term.

When Jr. was in office, raising it was a matter of routine. Now that there's a black man in the White House, people are bitching about the debt ceiling.
 
Several polls say the Republicans are losing the public opinion battle. It will come back to haunt them in 2012.

Debt Polling Roundup: What Does the Country Want? - Chris Good - Politics - The Atlantic

WHO TO TRUST?
Public's answer: Obama

•ABC News/Washington Post: 48 percent trusts Obama, 39 percent trusts House Republicans
•CBS: 43 percent approve of Obama's handling of negotiations, 31 percent approve of Democrats in Congress, 21 percent approve of Republicans in Congress
•
•USA Today/Gallup: 72 percent say Republicans are putting the political interests ahead of the country's, 65 percent say Democrats in Congress are putting their political interests ahead of the country's, 49 percent say Obama is putting his political interests ahead of the country's

WHO TO BLAME IF THERE'S NO DEAL?
Public's answer: Republicans

•CBS: 49 percent say they blame Republicans in Congress more for the current budget standoff, 29 percent say they blame Obama more
 
Need to prioritize, the US takes in something like 200,000,000,000 a month and the debt payment is something like 20,000,000,000.
But...nothing like putting the fear into the uninformed, it sure shows when polled.

The GOP should know about the tactics of fear.......I mean, they've been using them since Obama got elected.

I'm not backing what the GOP has done....I'm talking about what's going on right now, ABS. This administration is not telling the truth with "the debt won't be able to be paid". They are playing on peoples stupidity to believe such a thing.
 

Assuming that's the 'group of 6 plan' not so fast with $4T either:


...First I’ll flag a few things I like in the plan.

* I support making a technical correction to CPI, even though it would result in higher revenues.
* Repeal of the CLASS Act is great.
* It’s good they included medical malpractice reform.

That’s it. Others right-of-center are salivating at the low marginal income tax rates described in the plan, both for individuals and corporations. I think those low rates never materialize, for both arithmetic and legislative reasons, and explain why below....

...Here are 17 reasons why I oppose the Gang of Six plan.

1. It provides no discretionary spending totals.

Discretionary spending is 37% of the budget next year. The Gang of Six plan does not specify discretionary spending totals. How can I support (or even evaluate) a budget plan that promises to cap 37% of spending but doesn’t tell me at what level, next year or for nine years thereafter?

2. It cuts defense spending while hiding the ball on nondefense spending.

The only discretionary spending number provided is $866 B in defense (security) discretionary savings over the next 10 years. I care about the discretionary spending total and about the balance between defense and nondefense. I am open to defense spending cuts, but not if I’m not told what the plan does to nondefense spending as well. How can I support or evaluate $866 B of defense appropriations cuts when I am not told whether the plan cuts, holds harmless, or even increases nondefense appropriations?

3. The promised deficit reduction is both overstated and less than is needed.

Their $3.7 trillion of claimed deficit reduction is bogus. It includes an unspecified amount of savings from a future legislative fast-track process that would require further Congressional and Presidential action if health spending growth exceeds a certain target.

The Gang’s plan also uses at least three different baselines in different parts of the document. Combine that with the absence of discretionary spending totals and I have no confidence in their $3.7 trillion deficit reduction number. It is easy to solve this problem – I guarantee Chairman Conrad has a table of numbers that shows these calculations. All he has to do is release that table.

Even if I did believe it, this amount of savings won’t cover CBO’s projected $5.4 trillion of net interest costs over the same timeframe. In fairness, other plans face this same problem. We need much more deficit reduction (through spending cuts).

4. It is a huge net tax increase.

The Gang of Six plan would increase taxes by $2.3 trillion over the next 10 years relative to current policy. That’s roughly a 6.5 percent increase in total taxation.

Put another way, the Gang of Six plan raises taxes $830 B more than would President Obama’s February budget.

To those who like the promise of low statutory tax rates – the benefits of low marginal rates are far outweighed by the increase in average effective rates. This is a massive hidden tax increase.

5. It’s a far worse trade than Bowles-Simpson.

The fundamental trade of the Bowles-Simpson group was higher net taxation in exchange for (huge long-term spending reduction, especially in entitlements + fundamental structural entitlement reform + pro-growth tax reform).

The Gang of Six plan drops the first two elements of that trade, the huge long-term spending reductions and the structural entitlement reforms. It instead purports to offer pro-growth tax reform in exchange for much higher net tax levels. It offers trivial spending cuts, no flattening of long-term entitlement spending trends, and no structural reform to the Big 3 entitlements. That is a terrible trade, and far worse than Senators Durbin and Conrad agreed to in Bowles-Simpson. Why did the Republicans in the Gang take a deal far worse than Bowles-Simpson?

6. It trades a permanent tax increase for only a temporary respite on spending....
 
Need to prioritize, the US takes in something like 200,000,000,000 a month and the debt payment is something like 20,000,000,000.
But...nothing like putting the fear into the uninformed, it sure shows when polled.

The GOP should know about the tactics of fear.......I mean, they've been using them since Obama got elected.

I'm not backing what the GOP has done....I'm talking about what's going on right now, ABS. This administration is not telling the truth with the debt won't be able to be paid. They are playing on peoples stupidity to believe such a thing.

Ain't that the truth?
Let's get real here, Can we trust Obama, the Dems, the GOP or the Tea Party? No, no, no and no!
Maybe we should trust the Bowles-Simpson Commission Report and those who allegedly represent us (cough, cough) to follow the the reports recommendations.
Get it done!
 
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Counter him with someone who is on equal ground regarding economic knowledge. It's that easy. And it's not just him. As I suggested, go to The Economist, which is a conservative entity.

Street economist says default better than cuts - MarketWatch

There ya go.
queuing carping irrelevance in 3..2..1...

From your linked article,,,,
His view stands at odds with the rest of Wall Street, which has frequently communicated to congressional Republicans as well as the White House a desire to see the $14.3 trillion debt ceiling increased. See related story on Wall Street warnings

In other words, Ethan Harris is in the minority. Thanks for making my point.

Carping irrelevance achieved!

It doesn't matter. No one knows what will happen. No one thinks the US is going to default permanently. But everyone thinks if we don't do something to rein in this atrocious spending we will reach the point where we cannot pay our debts.
 
The GOP should know about the tactics of fear.......I mean, they've been using them since Obama got elected.

I'm not backing what the GOP has done....I'm talking about what's going on right now, ABS. This administration is not telling the truth with the debt won't be able to be paid. They are playing on peoples stupidity to believe such a thing.

Ain't that the truth?
Let's get real here, Can we trust Obama, the Dems, the GOP or the Tea Party? No, no, no and no!
Maybe we should trust the Bowles-Simpson Commission Report and those who allegedly represent us (cough, cough) to follow the the reports recommendations.
Get it done!

That was the report Obama commissioned and then ignored because he didn't like the recs, right?
Only one side here is committed to doing something about the tremendous spending problem we have. And it isn't the Democrats.
 
Bottom Line, the GOP will lose. Either they lose to Obama or the Tea Party. It is a matter of time. :lol::lol:
 
Disaster caplitalism.


Its what the right is looking for.

They want to crash our economy one more time so their real base ( the uber wealthy) can cash in one more time.

What is the Democrats' plan to forestall this?
Oh yeah, they don't a plan.

Can you try not to move your lips when you lie?

Obama endorses 'Gang of Six' deficit plan - politics - Capitol Hill - msnbc.com

So Obama had no plan until three days ago when six Senators, one of which is from my state and I've already donated to his recall effort, got together and came up with a plan?

The entire time he was threatening old people that they weren't going to get their social security checks he had no plan.

That isn't a lie, you are just so far up Obama's ass he can literally do no wrong :cuckoo:
 
The GOP better hope there is a deal. If the country defaults...well...all the polls tell us who will be blamed.

Ronald Reagan increased the debt ceiling 18 times in 8 years. Not a peep from his own party.
 

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