Another liberal lie exposed. BUSH VETOED END OF LIFE PROVISIONS

[The Infidel]

 

[xotoxi]

This is as far as I have gotten while reading this thread.....

Here it is in a nutshell.....

Doctors were and are not INCENTIVIZED to recomend someone end treatment, with these new provisions they will be.
The key is incentivized.... Doctors have always been able to discuss end of life options... its a normal thing to do.
Some folks dont want to be resucitated or intubated... they just want to die naturally and maybe with some pain relief, and then there are others who will fight to the very end.
So yes doctors have always been able to discuss this, but now it will be at our expense and in the doctors best interest for said patient to just "take the pain meds" in order to save money.

I guess you are more stupid than I thought...which is a pity.

When discussing end of life options, all we do is encourage people to make their own decision and to let us know what they want to be done, so that we don't do more or less than they want.

In previous generations, these topics were never discussed which ended up resulting in people with feeding tubes and intubations etc that they never really wanted (but didn't know that they had a choice).

By discussing these issues, it allows the PATIENT to make the decision ahead of time, and to let it be known what they want to do.

It also prevents a lot of heartache on the part of the family members, who have to make difficult decisions for their loved ones, and possibly feel guilty about it, or get into fights about it.

Essentially, discussing Advanced Directives is like having Informed Consent prior to surgery.

Its a pity you have to go and call me stupid....

What I stated may be incorrect..... but I am honestly trying to understand what all the hub-bub is about.
Doctors have always been able to discuss these things with their patients.... I am just under the understanding that the gov't, not the patient or their insurance, will be paying doctors to do this. This is what I mean by "incentivize".

I just dont like the government having ANY part in my healthcare. I like it being between my doctor and myself, and thats it.

Trust me... the gov't beaurocrats will not give a grap about you or "grandma" and will cut costs at every turn in order to save money on HC costs. (they spend like drunk sailors on other things though)

Why we have to resort to name calling or saying Im stupid is beyond me on this issue....



I though you liked me.....

sorry to call you stupid. I just get frustrated when people are discussing something that they don't really understand.

The "incentive" is that Medicare will now be paying for Annual Physicals, and that End of Life discussions are included in those physicals (as they always have been).

So the "incentive" is actually the physician getting paid for performing a service. It would be like paying a muffler guy an "incentive" to change your muffler if it is needed.

 

[Jeremy]

 

[Agit8r]

for the sake of those who were eating paste during civics class

"Every Bill which shall have passed the House of Representatives and the Senate, shall, before it become a Law, be presented to the President of the United States; If he approve he shall sign it, but if not he shall return it, with his Objections to that House in which it shall have originated, who shall enter the Objections at large on their Journal, and proceed to reconsider it. If after such Reconsideration two thirds of that House shall agree to pass the Bill, it shall be sent, together with the Objections, to the other House, by which it shall likewise be reconsidered, and if approved by two thirds of that House, it shall become a Law. But in all such Cases the Votes of both Houses shall be determined by Yeas and Nays, and the Names of the Persons voting for and against the Bill shall be entered on the Journal of each House respectively. If any Bill shall not be returned by the President within ten Days (Sundays excepted) after it shall have been presented to him, the Same shall be a Law, in like Manner as if he had signed it, unless the Congress by their Adjournment prevent its Return, in which Case it shall not be a Law."

-- Constitution; Article 1, Section 7

 

[Toro]

I guess you are more stupid than I thought...which is a pity.

When discussing end of life options, all we do is encourage people to make their own decision and to let us know what they want to be done, so that we don't do more or less than they want.

In previous generations, these topics were never discussed which ended up resulting in people with feeding tubes and intubations etc that they never really wanted (but didn't know that they had a choice).

By discussing these issues, it allows the PATIENT to make the decision ahead of time, and to let it be known what they want to do.

It also prevents a lot of heartache on the part of the family members, who have to make difficult decisions for their loved ones, and possibly feel guilty about it, or get into fights about it.

Essentially, discussing Advanced Directives is like having Informed Consent prior to surgery.

Stop lying, you lying liar.

You WANT people to die! You tell them its the best thing!

Why do lying liar liberals always lie?





Oh, wait, I almost forgot.

Actually, I saw someone today...a really old lady...and spoke with her about her Advanced Directives.

She wanted to have everything done (CPR, feeding tubes, etc), but I told her that I would help her with the form, and I convinced her to check the box that says "I WANT NOTHING DONE".

Then I gave her a bottle of codeine to help with her cough and told her to drink the whole bottle down when she gets home.

One down, 310,553,147 to go.

I think we've had this forever in Canada, where there is "socialized medicine," and I don't ever recall doctors wanting to off grandma.

 

[The Infidel]

sorry to call you stupid. I just get frustrated when people are discussing something that they don't really understand.

The "incentive" is that Medicare will now be paying for Annual Physicals, and that End of Life discussions are included in those physicals (as they always have been).

So the "incentive" is actually the physician getting paid for performing a service. It would be like paying a muffler guy an "incentive" to change your muffler if it is needed.

 

[8537]

well aren't you the clever one.

I'm not sure if one can be considered "clever" for understanding the most basic concepts of American civics.

did i type clever?

i'm sorry, i meant to type "...mind numbingly pedantic with overtones of passive aggression...".

again, my apologies.

You step into a thread, question my knowledge by exposing your own ignorance, and I'm the passive aggressive one?

You could just admit you were wrong, but that takes a spine.

 

[8537]

for the sake of those who were eating paste during civics class

"Every Bill which shall have passed the House of Representatives and the Senate, shall, before it become a Law, be presented to the President of the United States; If he approve he shall sign it, but if not he shall return it, with his Objections to that House in which it shall have originated, who shall enter the Objections at large on their Journal, and proceed to reconsider it. If after such Reconsideration two thirds of that House shall agree to pass the Bill, it shall be sent, together with the Objections, to the other House, by which it shall likewise be reconsidered, and if approved by two thirds of that House, it shall become a Law. But in all such Cases the Votes of both Houses shall be determined by Yeas and Nays, and the Names of the Persons voting for and against the Bill shall be entered on the Journal of each House respectively. If any Bill shall not be returned by the President within ten Days (Sundays excepted) after it shall have been presented to him, the Same shall be a Law, in like Manner as if he had signed it, unless the Congress by their Adjournment prevent its Return, in which Case it shall not be a Law."

-- Constitution; Article 1, Section 7

I'm glad someone around this place has a passing familiarity with the Constitution. For all the blathering about "following the Constitution" etc...around this place, people are mind-blowingly ignorant of the basic mechanisms it contains.

 

[Sallow]

WoOT!!!

 

[Sallow]

Newflash: Everything Dies.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMHQQvBs6o4[/ame]

 

[Greenbeard]

I think we've had this forever in Canada, where there is "socialized medicine," and I don't ever recall doctors wanting to off grandma.

Sounds like you guys need a better right-wing fear machine. Out of curiosity, who tells you what to be afraid of up there?

 

[Toro]

I think we've had this forever in Canada, where there is "socialized medicine," and I don't ever recall doctors wanting to off grandma.

Sounds like you guys need a better right-wing fear machine. Out of curiosity, who tells you what to be afraid of up there?

I think they took Fox News off up there because everyone was so appalled.

 

[TossObama]

http://biggovernment.com/files/2010/12/medium_WaveBush_Meye2.jpg
The Hill reported that the Obama White House attempted to calm Americans’ fears of the dreaded death panels:

The Medicare policy will pay doctors for holding end-of-life-care discussions with patients, according to the Times. A similar provision was dropped from the new healthcare reform law after Republicans accused the administration of withholding care from the sick, elderly and disabled.
However, an administration spokesman said the regulation, which is less specific than the reform law’s draft language, is actually a continuation of a policy enacted under former President George W. Bush.

“The only thing new here is a regulation allowing the discussions … to happen in the context of the new annual wellness visit created by [healthcare reform],” Obama spokesman Reid Cherlin told The Wall Street Journal.
In 2003, Medicare added a consultation visit for seniors new to the program, according to the Journal. Another 2008 law, enacted under Bush, said the visit can include “end-of-life” planning discussions.
​

However, what The Hill’s Jason Millman forgot to mention in his article was that President Bush VETOED the 2008 bill and the Democrats, along with some “good-willed” Republicans OVERRODE Bush’s veto forcing him to sign the legislation into law. The bill dealt with doctors’ reimbursements and more, but the Democrats slipped in the end-of-life planning by opening up the Social Security Act, which I have stated many times is dangerous. Once the act is changed, it is difficult to amend again and allows for tinkering with the Medicare fee schedule and covered services definitions and requirements
.
For the record, here is the text that the Democrats changed:

(b) Revisions to Initial Preventive Physical Examination-
http://www.govtrack.us/embed/sample-billtext.xpd?bill=h110-6331&version=enr&nid=t0:enr:134http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h110-6331&version=enr&nid=t0:enr:134
(1) IN GENERAL- Section 1861(ww) of the Social Security Act (42 U.S.C. 1395x(ww)) is amended–

(A) in paragraph (1)–
http://www.govtrack.us/embed/sample-billtext.xpd?bill=h110-6331&version=enr&nid=t0:enr:136http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h110-6331&version=enr&nid=t0:enr:136
(i) by inserting ‘body mass index,’ after ‘weight’;

http://www.govtrack.us/embed/sample-billtext.xpd?bill=h110-6331&version=enr&nid=t0:enr:137http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h110-6331&version=enr&nid=t0:enr:137
(ii) by striking ‘, and an electrocardiogram’; and

http://www.govtrack.us/embed/sample-billtext.xpd?bill=h110-6331&version=enr&nid=t0:enr:138http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h110-6331&version=enr&nid=t0:enr:138
(iii) by inserting ‘and end-of-life planning (as defined in paragraph (3)) upon the agreement with the individual’ after ‘paragraph (2)’;



​

Comedy gold indeed, when Democrats blame Bush for, um, everything wrong in America, and then use him for cover on healthcare.

Actually, Bush Vetoed Bill with ‘End-of-Life’ Provisions - Big Government

Liberals who claim that it isn't true Bush originally vetoed end of life provisions, better look again: H.R. 6331 [110th]: Medicare Improvements for Patients and Providers Act of 2008 (GovTrack.us)

Bush VETOED end of life provisions. Now LIBERALS want to sneak in more end of life provisions and use Bush as their cover.

BUT THEY HAVE TO LIE TO DO IT!

Typical liberalism, lie lie lie, and lie some more.

***Thank you for a very informative posting. I appreciate it very much.

Every Republican who voted to override that Veto is going to be voted out of office -- if they haven't already been tossed. We aren't having slime -- eeking into either party, who pulls stunts like that. Particularly when the ramifications are so deadly for the American people.

We know nazis are infiltrating both parties, but we need names. And from now on, very thorough background checks are going to be done on candidates. We cannot trust Party any longer.

Fed up? You betcha.