Another kassam rocket fired at Israel today

[RodISHI]

I don't understand how people don't understand that one point? Perhaps, they are not aware of it or choose to ignore it? Either way Hamas will only have peace when Israel is destroyed.

You would be in error to think people do not understand that. There are still people in Gaza that do not agree with Hamas. Would you destroy those who wish for peace with those who are intent on destruction? Or would you at the very least attempt to ask for a reasonable solution?

I'm not sure how you would go about talking to the people of Gaza unless Hamas wanted you to, and I don't think that's going to happen. I do agree with you that aside from Hamas, Islamic Jihad, etc. there are probably lots of Palestinians who would be willing to negotiate peace with Israel, but how would you get to talk to them unless you destroyed Hamas and the other terrorist groups first, and how are you going to do that without causing a lot of civilian deaths?

A recent poll showed 55% of Israelis favor a negotiated settlement with the Palestinians and only 18% opposed it, but who do you negotiate with? Hamas has rejected any negotiated settlement with Israel and the PA is too impotent to be able to promise anything.

Didn't Israel send leaflets earlier warning the people of Gaza? That could be a source of communication. Can they drop relief supplies into Gaza? I know it is only a one way word but it would be a start.

Hamas is obviously talking to someone when they say they will not agree to a ceasefire.

While attempting to destroy Hamas it surely has to be with as few civilian casualties as possible. I would think would be the best option for long term peace there. Do the leaders of Hamas talk to anyone besides those who support them?

From all appearances some countries are joining in to boycott fund raising for Palis and Hamas. To me that could be the most effective deterant as long as the people recieve adequate care/relief while boycotts of militant support are being into place.

Are there any agencies that Hamas and Israel would both trust to administer getting the aid into Gaza?

How can you get the world to stop supporting the terrorist weapons entering into Gaza without starving out the people there? The weapons are why the borders have been blocked aren't they?

 

[RodISHI]

A recent poll showed 55% of Israelis favor a negotiated settlement with the Palestinians and only 18% opposed it, but who do you negotiate with?



BY ALL MEANS, post your source. Hell, israel hasn't been able to (or WILLING to, more likely) keep jewish squatters from taking as much arab land as they want. All of a sudden israel is ALL FOR negotiating? bullshit.

December 2008 - barely 2 fucking months ago. And you people want to pretend that arabs are the fucking root of all evil...
Jewish settlers in Hebron shoot Palestinian men
Jewish settlers in Hebron shoot Palestinian men | World news | guardian.co.uk

What would you do with the squatters?

 

[Shogun]

A recent poll showed 55% of Israelis favor a negotiated settlement with the Palestinians and only 18% opposed it, but who do you negotiate with?



BY ALL MEANS, post your source. Hell, israel hasn't been able to (or WILLING to, more likely) keep jewish squatters from taking as much arab land as they want. All of a sudden israel is ALL FOR negotiating? bullshit.

December 2008 - barely 2 fucking months ago. And you people want to pretend that arabs are the fucking root of all evil...
Jewish settlers in Hebron shoot Palestinian men
Jewish settlers in Hebron shoot Palestinian men | World news | guardian.co.uk

What would you do with the squatters?

do exactly what israel would do if Palestineans thorught they could reclaim israel by just moving onto property: kick em the fuck out. It's pretty fucking hilarious how many people would rather bomb an arab than listen to their complaints.... but when a JEW decides to totally disregard arab land for the sake of a zionist land grab.. well, it's time to put the padded gloves on because we wouldn't want to bruise a jew....

Now, AGAIN, I'd love to see some fucking evidence that suggests hamas is being alienated from palis. Something that is NOT from a jewish agency would be nice. Anything less is no more accurate than the LAST excuse to bomb a fucking kindergarden.

 

[RodISHI]

A recent poll showed 55% of Israelis favor a negotiated settlement with the Palestinians and only 18% opposed it, but who do you negotiate with?



BY ALL MEANS, post your source. Hell, israel hasn't been able to (or WILLING to, more likely) keep jewish squatters from taking as much arab land as they want. All of a sudden israel is ALL FOR negotiating? bullshit.

December 2008 - barely 2 fucking months ago. And you people want to pretend that arabs are the fucking root of all evil...
Jewish settlers in Hebron shoot Palestinian men
Jewish settlers in Hebron shoot Palestinian men | World news | guardian.co.uk

What would you do with the squatters?

do exactly what israel would do if Palestineans thorught they could reclaim israel by just moving onto property: kick em the fuck out. It's pretty fucking hilarious how many people would rather bomb an arab than listen to their complaints.... but when a JEW decides to totally disregard arab land for the sake of a zionist land grab.. well, it's time to put the padded gloves on because we wouldn't want to bruise a jew....

Now, AGAIN, I'd love to see some fucking evidence that suggests hamas is being alienated from palis. Something that is NOT from a jewish agency would be nice. Anything less is no more accurate than the LAST excuse to bomb a fucking kindergarden.

More questions here on this what you are saying is a land grab.

Where the settlements in the article are. Are these lands within Israel?

How does Israel handle land transfers?

Are there deeds or what? Please detail that for me if you can.

 

[Shogun]

What would you do with the squatters?

do exactly what israel would do if Palestineans thorught they could reclaim israel by just moving onto property: kick em the fuck out. It's pretty fucking hilarious how many people would rather bomb an arab than listen to their complaints.... but when a JEW decides to totally disregard arab land for the sake of a zionist land grab.. well, it's time to put the padded gloves on because we wouldn't want to bruise a jew....

Now, AGAIN, I'd love to see some fucking evidence that suggests hamas is being alienated from palis. Something that is NOT from a jewish agency would be nice. Anything less is no more accurate than the LAST excuse to bomb a fucking kindergarden.

More questions here on this what you are saying is a land grab.

Where the settlements in the article are. Are these lands within Israel?

How does Israel handle land transfers?

Are there deeds or what? Please detail that for me if you can.

read the article. zionists have been allowing jewish squatters for years. You may not want to call it that but, hey, we can't all coddle jews. Again read the article, THESE LANDS ARE NOT WITHIN ISRAEL. And we see how israel handles land transfers if a jew is involved - NOTICE THE FUCKING DATE OF THE ARTICLE. Deeds? gimme a break.

HERE is your fucking clarification.. Funny, notice how i'm the one posting evidence while aipac non-sequiters seems to work for the standard issue zionists.


Settlers torch Arab land as US steps up ceasefire effort
Settlers torch Arab land as US steps up ceasefire effort - Middle East, World - The Independent

Study: 40 percent of settlements were built on Palestinian land
The group says that the data presented in the report "demonstrates that the property rights of many Palestinians have been systematically violated in the course of settlement building."
Study: 40 percent of settlements were built on Palestinian land - Haaretz - Israel News


Rice seeks Israeli 'clarification' on land grab

US secretary of state says she has requested 'clarification' from Jewish state over its decision to confiscate Arab land near Jerusalem.
Rice seeks Israeli 'clarification' on land grab - Israel News, Ynetnews



NOTICE A FUCKING PATTERN?

 

[GHook93]

Kassam rocket fired from Gaza strikes Eshkol region | Israel | Jerusalem Post

Haim Yalin, head of the Eshkol Regional Council, told The Jerusalem Post that the rocket represented a moment of truth for the government, and called for a firm response to avert the next war.


"During Operation Cast Lead, I and other local authority heads sat with Defense Minister Ehud Barak and Prime Minister Ehud Olmert and told them: 'It does not matter at what stage the military operation ends, what matters is what Israel does after the first rocket is fired,'" Yalin said.

"We have now reached that stage. If the government fails to respond, and says the rocket was fired by a marginal group, we will be faced with another war soon. If we respond as we should, then we can hopefully spare ourselves another war," he added.

"Israel must not show restraint. We have known this situation for too many years. It is like a child in a kindergarten testing his limits," Yalin said.

Honestly what Israel needs to do is get in direct talks with Hamas! Yes yes they are a terrorist organization, but they are the ones the hold the strings in Palestine. Talking doesn't have to lead to giving in!

What would you say to them? Hamas is doctrinally committed to the destruction of Israel and believes it has been ordered by Allah to do so. What could Israel say to them to get them to defy the will of Allah?

Not sure and glad I don't have to do those negotiations!

 

[GHook93]

What would you say to them? Hamas is doctrinally committed to the destruction of Israel and believes it has been ordered by Allah to do so. What could Israel say to them to get them to defy the will of Allah?

I don't understand how people don't understand that one point? Perhaps, they are not aware of it or choose to ignore it? Either way Hamas will only have peace when Israel is destroyed.

And that might be the case! That might never change!
However, talk can do a few things:
(1) Best case scenario lead to a free independent Palestine and Safe and secure Israel
(2) Moderate Palestinians who just want to live their lives, start to really believe Israel is serious about peace and turn widely and openly against Hamas
(3) It creates great PR for Israel, seeing that Israel is trying to take steps.

Now I am not saying that talks with Hamas will lead to something, because there is a good chance that they won't lead anywhere. However, like it or not they are the ones that have the power in Palestine, and while talks may lead to no where, talks could also lead to somewhere. I am a strong Israel supporter, but I am a rational one. As a rational one I believe that creating a free Palestine state is strongly in Israel's best interest! As a rational one I realize status quo is not an option and Israel does not have unlimited time to make peace. Problems the growing refugee problem in Syria, Lebanon, Jordan etc (the easy answer is they are in other countries F' them, but a rational person would say is not the simple), the growing Gaza, Israeli Arab and WB population. Rationally thinking it won't even be 10 years before these 3 segments out-produce the Jews from the majority!

David I respect your opinion, but you have to rational about this!

 

[GHook93]

Honestly what Israel needs to do is get in direct talks with Hamas! Yes yes they are a terrorist organization, but they are the ones the hold the strings in Palestine. Talking doesn't have to lead to giving in!

How can Hamas talk with a representative of something (Israel) that it doesn't even believe to exist?

They did with the Egypt and Jordan. None of these entities recognized Israel until the made peace. Why does recognition have to be a game-starter instead of part of the end solution?

And how will talking with people that abuse the palestinian population (Hamas) for their own goals help palestinians?

Starting talks do not have to go side by side with appeasement! But usually no talks go side by side with conflict and violence!

Hamas is not acknowledged by any decent government and never will be, so talking to a government (Hamas) that you do not acknowledge is really stupid.

They are De Facto the leaders of the Palestinian people. The only thing that keeps them from taking over the WB is Israel. Like it or not Israel is wasting its time talking to the toothless, clawless Abbas and the PLO, they need to engage the ones with real power.

 

[RodISHI]

Link to Map.....MFA Link to Hebron Map by B'Tselem and ACRI

From all appearances of the article Israel is the police and authority here from where they are reporting the first Article.Excerpt from Article 1

The film, recorded by a Palestinian resident in Hebron, shows settlers attacking his house, which was in a valley close to the three-storey building where dozens of settlers were evicted by Israeli riot police. In the hours after the eviction, Jewish settlers rioted in Hebron, throwing stones at police and Palestinians and setting fire to Palestinian trees and attacking Palestinian homes. Most of the violence took place between the evicted house and the nearby hardline Jewish settlement of Kirya Arba.

The footage shows a settler firing a handgun and injuring two Palestinians, Hosni Abu Se'ifan, 40, who was hit in the chest and is now in a stable condition in hospital, and his father, Abd al-Hai Abu Se'ifan, 65, who was hurt in the arm. Others from the family then overpower the gunman until armed Israeli security guards from the Kiryat Arba settlement arrive and shoot several rounds over the heads of the Palestinians. The Abu Se'ifan family have frequently been targeted by settlers in the past.

B'Tselem handed the video to Israeli police in Hebron last night and was "demanding that the assailant is immediately brought to justice and that the involvement of the security guard be investigated".

My question would be who owns the land?

What was there prior to settlements of the Israeli's. And don't get pissy here Shogun it is a legitimate question from a novice.

Do the Arab's have title to the land in Hebron?

If not why?

Do the Israeli's have title to the land?

Did someone sell them this land?

Or were the Arabs settlers there before the Israeli's?

Were the lands previously unclaimed?

If so. What is the Israeli policy concerning unclaimed lands? Do they have one?

The second Artcile link will not load on my computer.

The third Article reference a leftist groups study. Are there any legitimate non bias looks into the matter?
Study: 40 percent of settlements were built on Palestinian land - Haaretz - Israel News

A new study conducted by left-wing group Peace Now has found that approximately 40 percent of settlements, including long-standing communities, are built on private Palestinian land and not on state-owned land.

Fourth Article Published: 10.12.07 I would ask did she recieve any clarification?

I would also ask again who has true ownership rights there?

I would also ask has Israeli's offered any compensation to the Arab people that they are dislodging from these lands? Or were the Arabs also squatters?

US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said Thursday she had requested "clarification" from Israel over its decision to confiscate Arab land near Jerusalem.



"I called their ambassador to the US yesterday and asked for clarification. I am waiting for one," Rice told reporters on her plane prior to making a stopover in Shannon, Ireland, en route to Moscow.



Nuclear Crisis

Putin says Iran is not building a nuclear weapon / Reuters

We do not have data that says Iran is trying to produce nuclear weapons, Russian president says at news briefing with visiting French leader Nicolas Sarkozy. 'Therefore we proceed from a position that Iran has no such plans but we share the concern of our partners that all programs should be as transparent as possible,' he adds
Full story



Israel on Tuesday ordered the confiscation of Arab land outside east Jerusalem, officials said, reviving fears that the occupied West Bank could be split in two and challenging peace overtures.

If anyone is looking for a civilized way to settle the matters it all comes down to a means of creating Legally Binding Property Titles.

 

[Munin]

They are De Facto the leaders of the Palestinian people. The only thing that keeps them from taking over the WB is Israel. Like it or not Israel is wasting its time talking to the toothless, clawless Abbas and the PLO, they need to engage the ones with real power.

Wrong, the only thing that keeps them from taking over the WB is Fatah. The only recognized government of the Palestinians.

 

[toomuchtime_]

What would you say to them? Hamas is doctrinally committed to the destruction of Israel and believes it has been ordered by Allah to do so. What could Israel say to them to get them to defy the will of Allah?

I don't understand how people don't understand that one point? Perhaps, they are not aware of it or choose to ignore it? Either way Hamas will only have peace when Israel is destroyed.

And that might be the case! That might never change!
However, talk can do a few things:
(1) Best case scenario lead to a free independent Palestine and Safe and secure Israel
(2) Moderate Palestinians who just want to live their lives, start to really believe Israel is serious about peace and turn widely and openly against Hamas
(3) It creates great PR for Israel, seeing that Israel is trying to take steps.

Now I am not saying that talks with Hamas will lead to something, because there is a good chance that they won't lead anywhere. However, like it or not they are the ones that have the power in Palestine, and while talks may lead to no where, talks could also lead to somewhere. I am a strong Israel supporter, but I am a rational one. As a rational one I believe that creating a free Palestine state is strongly in Israel's best interest! As a rational one I realize status quo is not an option and Israel does not have unlimited time to make peace. Problems the growing refugee problem in Syria, Lebanon, Jordan etc (the easy answer is they are in other countries F' them, but a rational person would say is not the simple), the growing Gaza, Israeli Arab and WB population. Rationally thinking it won't even be 10 years before these 3 segments out-produce the Jews from the majority!

David I respect your opinion, but you have to rational about this!

Israel has been negotiating with Abbas for about a year now, and Hamas' position has been that talks with Israel must end before they will consider reconciliation with Abbas. How could Israel even offer to have direct talks with Hamas without weakening the position of Abbas' governemnt? Neither side represent all the Palestinians. Before the Gaza situation became so heated, a poll of Palestinians showed that those in the West Bankk mostly trusted Abbas and expecially his PM, Fayyad, and largely distrusted Hamas while those in Gaza largely trusted Hamas and distrusted Abbas. Israel Bankand most of the rest of the world, including most Arab countries, deal with Abbasespecially because he seems to represent the more moderate Palestinians, so why would Israel or the rest of the world want to deal with Hamas when it would clearly undermine Abbas and the more moderate Palestinians he represents? How could it possibly benefit Israel to strengthen the position of Hamas among the Palestinians at the expense of Abbas and the more moderate Palestinians?

 

[Shogun]

It's fucking HILARIOUS to watch you people ask "who owns the land" when it's clearly PALI land being settled by squatting jews. Hell, the length you people go to in order to make EVERY consideration while assuming arabs are just killer thugs, DESPITE THE VIDEO FUCKING EVIDENCE, is a giant bowl of comedy. Who owns the fucking land? NOT A ZIONIST LANDGRABBING JEW. Even if, in your zionist world, a jew can do no wrong and AUTOMATICALLY qualifies for the benefit of the doubt because of nothing more than their ethnicity.


god damn.. I post more evidence than you've offered this entire fucking thread and ALL OF A SUDDEN you turn into fucking judge goddamn judy and try to be as litigious as possible in order to find some fucking way to rationalize JEWISH SETTLERS ON PALI FUCKING RESERVATIONS.


and yet you stupid bastards WONDER why palis react to the Canaanization of their fucking existence.

 

[RodISHI]

It's fucking HILARIOUS to watch you people ask "who owns the land" when it's clearly PALI land being settled by squatting jews. Hell, the length you people go to in order to make EVERY consideration while assuming arabs are just killer thugs, DESPITE THE VIDEO FUCKING EVIDENCE, is a giant bowl of comedy. Who owns the fucking land? NOT A ZIONIST LANDGRABBING JEW. Even if, in your zionist world, a jew can do no wrong and AUTOMATICALLY qualifies for the benefit of the doubt because of nothing more than their ethnicity.


god damn.. I post more evidence than you've offered this entire fucking thread and ALL OF A SUDDEN you turn into fucking judge goddamn judy and try to be as litigious as possible in order to find some fucking way to rationalize JEWISH SETTLERS ON PALI FUCKING RESERVATIONS.


and yet you stupid bastards WONDER why palis react to the Canaanization of their fucking existence.

I did not see you reference a TITLE of any type. Are you now saying that it is "Reservation land" like the Indians here have?

 

[Shogun]

yes, it's the GODDAMN CARCASS OF WHATS LEFT OF PALESTINE. HERE, enjoy some MORE fucking evidence. When are you going to do more than suck zionist dick? I'd LOVE to see your fucking evidence that jews OWNED any goddamn thing on whats left of ARAB land.


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcmjR-cVu8w]YouTube - Jewish settlers beat palestinian shepherds[/ame]

'Jewish settler attack' on film
BBC NEWS | Middle East | 'Jewish settler attack' on film


Jewish settlers 'kill Palestinian'
Al Jazeera English - Middle East - Jewish settlers 'kill Palestinian'


Jewish settlers disrupt Palestinian olive harvest
Jewish settlers disrupt Palestinian olive harvest | International | Reuters


Jewish settlers set fire to Palestinian home, police say

Hebron resident says room he built on his roof was blackened and destroyed by fire set off before dawn. Palestinian police blame settlers. UN envoy: Israel must put an end to the violence
Jewish settlers set fire to Palestinian home, police say - Israel News, Ynetnews


VIDEO: Settlers tie Palestinian man to phone pole and beat him
A group of West Bank settlers on Saturday beat a 31-year-old Palestinian man in the southern Hebron Hills, after having tied him to a telephone pole.

Left-wing activists later videoed a settler kicking Madahat Abu-Kirash, the victim, as he remained tied up and was surrounded by Israeli security forces. The soldiers subsequently removed the settler from the scene.
VIDEO: Settlers tie Palestinian man to phone pole and beat him - Haaretz - Israel News



Hebron mayor: Jewish settlers on 'terror' rampage
Hebron mayor: Jewish settlers on 'terror' rampage - CNN.com


Jewish Settlers Attack Palestinian Photog
4 Jewish Men Seen Punching, Kicking Photographer During Olive Harvest
Jewish Settlers Attack Palestinian Photog, 4 Jewish Men Seen Punching, Kicking Photographer During Olive Harvest - CBS News


Jewish settlers daub 'Muhammad is a pig' on Palestinian mosque
Jewish settlers daub 'Muhammad is a pig' on Palestinian mosque - Times Online


Hebron evictions: Jewish settlers shoot Palestinians
Video: Jewish settlers shoot Palestinian men following Hebron evictions | World news | guardian.co.uk


Now, PLEASE talk to me about "who owns the fucking land" and if "a jew has the fucking deed". Your quickness to apply a double standard, BECAUSE WE ALL KNOW HOW ZIONIST WOULD REACT TO AN ARAB DOING HALF OF THIS SHIT, is not lost on anyone.

 

[Shogun]

yes, it's the GODDAMN CARCASS OF WHATS LEFT OF PALESTINE. HERE, enjoy some MORE fucking evidence. When are you going to do more than suck zionist dick? I'd LOVE to see your fucking evidence that jews OWNED any goddamn thing on whats left of ARAB land.


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcmjR-cVu8w]YouTube - Jewish settlers beat palestinian shepherds[/ame]

'Jewish settler attack' on film
BBC NEWS | Middle East | 'Jewish settler attack' on film


Jewish settlers 'kill Palestinian'
Al Jazeera English - Middle East - Jewish settlers 'kill Palestinian'


Jewish settlers disrupt Palestinian olive harvest
Jewish settlers disrupt Palestinian olive harvest | International | Reuters


Jewish settlers set fire to Palestinian home, police say

Hebron resident says room he built on his roof was blackened and destroyed by fire set off before dawn. Palestinian police blame settlers. UN envoy: Israel must put an end to the violence
Jewish settlers set fire to Palestinian home, police say - Israel News, Ynetnews


VIDEO: Settlers tie Palestinian man to phone pole and beat him
A group of West Bank settlers on Saturday beat a 31-year-old Palestinian man in the southern Hebron Hills, after having tied him to a telephone pole.

Left-wing activists later videoed a settler kicking Madahat Abu-Kirash, the victim, as he remained tied up and was surrounded by Israeli security forces. The soldiers subsequently removed the settler from the scene.
VIDEO: Settlers tie Palestinian man to phone pole and beat him - Haaretz - Israel News



Hebron mayor: Jewish settlers on 'terror' rampage
Hebron mayor: Jewish settlers on 'terror' rampage - CNN.com


Jewish Settlers Attack Palestinian Photog
4 Jewish Men Seen Punching, Kicking Photographer During Olive Harvest
Jewish Settlers Attack Palestinian Photog, 4 Jewish Men Seen Punching, Kicking Photographer During Olive Harvest - CBS News


Jewish settlers daub 'Muhammad is a pig' on Palestinian mosque
Jewish settlers daub 'Muhammad is a pig' on Palestinian mosque - Times Online


Hebron evictions: Jewish settlers shoot Palestinians
Video: Jewish settlers shoot Palestinian men following Hebron evictions | World news | guardian.co.uk


Now, PLEASE talk to me about "who owns the fucking land" and if "a jew has the fucking deed". Your quickness to apply a double standard, BECAUSE WE ALL KNOW HOW ZIONIST WOULD REACT TO AN ARAB DOING HALF OF THIS SHIT, is not lost on anyone.

 

[RodISHI]

I have no double standard Shogun. What I have is a deed to land that tracks back to the United States Government from the mid 1800's. The United States purchased the land in a deal called the Louisanna Purchase. I have a few neighbors that have deeds from Quit Claims of people who never actually owned the land so I am trying to visualize who actually owns the land that you are talking about. And who has authority over the lands these people are fighting over. From all appearances it is a shitty situation. Who's going to clean house first and get rid of the bullshit claims?

I'll look at all the links when I get back from the dentist. Thank you for taking the time to put them up here.

 

[Shogun]

I have no double standard Shogun. What I have is a deed to land that tracks back to the United States Government from the mid 1800's. The United States purchased the land in a deal called the Louisanna Purchase. I have a few neighbors that have deeds from Quit Claims of people who never actually owned the land so I am trying to visualize who actually owns the land that you are talking about. And who has authority over the lands these people are fighting over. From all appearances it is a shitty situation. Who's going to clean house first and get rid of the bullshit claims?

I'll look at all the links when I get back from the dentist. Thank you for taking the time to put them up here.

Hey dude.. the ANSWER to your question is not if your AMERICAN deed suggests you own the fucking land, rather, Why would the fucking NATIVES give a rats ass about a european country selling THEIR NATIVE LAND to the US in the first fucking place. You tell me, if I draw up a deed to YOUR house and sell it to Roger fucking Smith regardless of your input how much concern YOU SHOULD HAVE TO GIVE TOWARDS THEIR FUCKING DEED.


same story all day long.

 

[GHook93]

I don't understand how people don't understand that one point? Perhaps, they are not aware of it or choose to ignore it? Either way Hamas will only have peace when Israel is destroyed.

And that might be the case! That might never change!
However, talk can do a few things:
(1) Best case scenario lead to a free independent Palestine and Safe and secure Israel
(2) Moderate Palestinians who just want to live their lives, start to really believe Israel is serious about peace and turn widely and openly against Hamas
(3) It creates great PR for Israel, seeing that Israel is trying to take steps.

Now I am not saying that talks with Hamas will lead to something, because there is a good chance that they won't lead anywhere. However, like it or not they are the ones that have the power in Palestine, and while talks may lead to no where, talks could also lead to somewhere. I am a strong Israel supporter, but I am a rational one. As a rational one I believe that creating a free Palestine state is strongly in Israel's best interest! As a rational one I realize status quo is not an option and Israel does not have unlimited time to make peace. Problems the growing refugee problem in Syria, Lebanon, Jordan etc (the easy answer is they are in other countries F' them, but a rational person would say is not the simple), the growing Gaza, Israeli Arab and WB population. Rationally thinking it won't even be 10 years before these 3 segments out-produce the Jews from the majority!

David I respect your opinion, but you have to rational about this!

Israel has been negotiating with Abbas for about a year now, and Hamas' position has been that talks with Israel must end before they will consider reconciliation with Abbas. How could Israel even offer to have direct talks with Hamas without weakening the position of Abbas' governemnt? Neither side represent all the Palestinians. Before the Gaza situation became so heated, a poll of Palestinians showed that those in the West Bankk mostly trusted Abbas and expecially his PM, Fayyad, and largely distrusted Hamas while those in Gaza largely trusted Hamas and distrusted Abbas. Israel Bankand most of the rest of the world, including most Arab countries, deal with Abbasespecially because he seems to represent the more moderate Palestinians, so why would Israel or the rest of the world want to deal with Hamas when it would clearly undermine Abbas and the more moderate Palestinians he represents? How could it possibly benefit Israel to strengthen the position of Hamas among the Palestinians at the expense of Abbas and the more moderate Palestinians?

Good Question and Good Point! The I/P situation is like ! It frustating and I just want to see peace in sooner rather than later!

 

[Shogun]

yea, but what consessions are you willing to make to achieve peace?


a single pluralistic Palisrael that values jews and arabs EQUALLY?

 

[DiveCon]

yea, but what consessions are you willing to make to achieve peace?


a single pluralistic Palisrael that values jews and arabs EQUALLY?

the Israelis were willing to have that in 1948, the arabs werent and still arent