CDZ Another conversation about Universal Income

Discussion in 'Clean Debate Zone' started by Mac1958, Nov 6, 2017.

  1. Xelor
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    Xelor Gold Member

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    Wow! Three successive remarks, and not one of them directly addresses the intrinsic merits/demerits of a UBI.
     
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  2. JimBowie1958
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    JimBowie1958 Old Fogey

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    this is why I have so many people on ignore.
     
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  3. Xelor
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    Xelor Gold Member

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    You and I both. LOL
     
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  4. Tehon
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    Tehon Gold Member

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    The breakdown of the capitalist mode of production is a historical inevitability. This thread is evidence that people are awake to the reality. Marx explained all of this that we are witnessing, and he did so scientifically by way of dialectic method. Communism is not a Utopia, it is the next step in the evolution of the social relations of production. The advanced development of our technology is going force us to make a decision, enslavement to the class that owns the technology used to produce the necessary requirements of life or freedom through a new social relationship of production.
     
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  5. JimBowie1958
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    JimBowie1958 Old Fogey

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    Communism is a failed philosophy that merely touched on economics and what it touched it corrupted and got wrong.

    Any theory that is even partly right would produce better results that have, in the case of communism, been so disastrous that even the Chicoms abandoned it.

    Marxism is not scientific at all, but is merely another philosophical informal religion that its sad devotion to a nearly 200 year old out of date theory well proves.

    Once again, the only real difference between a fascist and a communist is that the fascist never says 'Fascism has never really been tried yet.'
     
  6. Tehon
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    Tehon Gold Member

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    Marx broke down capitalism and explained why it would ultimately lead to another social relationship in the form of production. He did it using a dialectic method, observing the historical development of society through its various systems of production. Of course you are free to ignore it. Clearly you have never taken the time to understand Marx so your critique of his philosophy comes from a purely ignorant perspective. Your opinion is seen for what it is, empty.
     
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  7. JimBowie1958
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    JimBowie1958 Old Fogey

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    Marx failed to understand that new technologies would be developed and spun off the mature fully capitalized industries, thus creating new industries that restart the high wage slide all over again. Things are approaching a crisis today not because of anything Marx observed but because of the development of Strong AI learning capabilities being capable of enough miniaturization that such a software set could fully reside on a completely mobile and autonomous android robot. Thus this is the first tech spin off that will have zero need for human support once it matures.

    And nothing Marx said would solve the problems we face either.

    His philosophy is a failed old relic of an obsolete and disproven deterministic materialism that is as obsolete as the Bohr model of the atom.

    Marxism is the greatest single hindrance to the development of workers rights and defense of their interests in the history of mankind.
     
  8. Tehon
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    Tehon Gold Member

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    Marx's entire economic theory rests on the revolutionizing of industrial capabilities that lead to worker alienation. Marx could not see what exact developments would take place but his theory is proving out to be true. Give credit where credit is due.

    He resolved the problem. The choice is yours dude. Sit back and beg for handouts in the form of a UBI from a class that owns everything, or alter our social relationship of production so that the benefits of our labor, the source of value, can be shared equitably.
     
  9. danielpalos
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    danielpalos Gold Member

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    That is the point; full employment of resources is the objective.

    Our current regime is only about trying to provide a pound of cure, so the right wing can complain about taxes.
     
  10. danielpalos
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    danielpalos Gold Member

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    It would be recourse to an income on an at-will basis in our at-will employment States. It solves the UBI dilemma, in a market friendly manner using existing infrastructure.
     

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