Anniversary of Lee’s Surrender at Appomattox

[SandSquid]

The South never had a chance at winning the war. The best they could do was to force the Yankees into a truce that would allow them to leave the relatively young United States. Lee's failure at Gettysburg and Grant's willingness to murder Southern civilians to achieve a victory doomed the South. Historians tend to drool over Lincoln's legacy and claim that he "preserved the Union" but the Union actually fell apart under his watch and he foolishly thought he could defeat the South in a couple of months.

It was an unwinnable battle with how a couple things went in my opinion.

Confederacy was unable to get a single foreign power to recognize them. So while they had some under the table support and individuals offering support, they were basically on their own.

2nd, was like you said, the best way was to force a truce. To take on George Washingtons strategy of fighting a war of attrition. But Washington could let Philadelphia or NY fall, and pick and choose which battles favored his armies, then come back later. He could retreat out of bad situations and regroup. In the Confederacy, states were asking for a full defense of their lands and that every city was fought for even if it meant a major engagement they may not win and would be very costly to an army which struggled to replenish itself (people and supplies/weapons).

As for murdering civilians, that happened on both sides. It was War. Remember the first civilian casualties of the war was when Confederate supporting civilians took the war into their own hands attacking a Massachusetts brigade. It was a total war. Civilians in the Confederacy like the story of John Burns who grabbed his shotgun from the kitchen and joined the war effort. Likewise the story of Jennie Wade, killed baking bread in her kitchen by a Confederate sharpshooter.

Word spread about Sherman. Not willing to let the rich land owning aristocrats to send young people off to their war to perpetuate and expand race based slavery while living apart from it. He burned and razed.. And treated those who surrendered with the best care according to Confederates. Those stories were blown up and rather than full engagements, allowed his army to avoid that and instead gain surrenders, saving thousands of lives.

As for the lie that the union fell apart under Lincoln, the truth was secession was occurring even before he took office. It was his predecessor, James Buchanan who said the rebellion was illegal.

I do believe you are right about Lincolns beliefs it would be over quickly. He underestimated the desire of those southern leaders to hold together to support their "peculiar institution". He thought they would believe him on his claims he wouldn't try and end slavery if he had the chance. They didn't, and makes sense from their perspective not to believe those promises, since when given the chance, he fought to end slavery.

It's speculative fiction, but Harry Turtledove has a whole series of books on a Southern Victory and the repercussions of this through the 1940's.

Southern Victory - Wikipedia

Before the Battle of Antietam, Federal troops accidentally recovered a copy of Special Order 191, which detailed Lee's plan for the invasion of Maryland. Using this intelligence, Federal forces under George B. McClellan moved north and forced the Battle of Antietam, ending the invasion.

In Turtledove's alternate history, C.S. troops recover Lee's orders before the papers fall into Union hands. The resulting C.S. advance catches McClellan and the Union Army by surprise. General Lee forces McClellan into a battle on the banks of the Susquehanna River in Pennsylvania and destroys the Army of the Potomac in the Battle of Camp Hill on October 1, 1862.

After this decisive C.S. victory, Lee and the Army of Northern Virginia move eastward to occupy Philadelphia. The Confederate States earns diplomatic recognition from the United Kingdom and France. The two European nations force mediation on the United States; the C.S. achieves independence. This "War of Secession" ends in less than two years.

Better than that series is a book by Turtledove called Guns Of The South! That one book got me hooked on alternate history books.

Sounds good. Added to my kindle list. And interesting premise. I don't read a lot of alternate history but there was one about a modern carrier back in WWII. Made a movie even of it with the USs Kitty Hawk.. and another called destroyermen I think. WWII destroyer made it into an alternate dimension.

 

[rightwinger]

The South never had a chance at winning the war. The best they could do was to force the Yankees into a truce that would allow them to leave the relatively young United States. Lee's failure at Gettysburg and Grant's willingness to murder Southern civilians to achieve a victory doomed the South. Historians tend to drool over Lincoln's legacy and claim that he "preserved the Union" but the Union actually fell apart under his watch and he foolishly thought he could defeat the South in a couple of months.

It was an unwinnable battle with how a couple things went in my opinion.

Confederacy was unable to get a single foreign power to recognize them. So while they had some under the table support and individuals offering support, they were basically on their own.

2nd, was like you said, the best way was to force a truce. To take on George Washingtons strategy of fighting a war of attrition. But Washington could let Philadelphia or NY fall, and pick and choose which battles favored his armies, then come back later. He could retreat out of bad situations and regroup. In the Confederacy, states were asking for a full defense of their lands and that every city was fought for even if it meant a major engagement they may not win and would be very costly to an army which struggled to replenish itself (people and supplies/weapons).

As for murdering civilians, that happened on both sides. It was War. Remember the first civilian casualties of the war was when Confederate supporting civilians took the war into their own hands attacking a Massachusetts brigade. It was a total war. Civilians in the Confederacy like the story of John Burns who grabbed his shotgun from the kitchen and joined the war effort. Likewise the story of Jennie Wade, killed baking bread in her kitchen by a Confederate sharpshooter.

Word spread about Sherman. Not willing to let the rich land owning aristocrats to send young people off to their war to perpetuate and expand race based slavery while living apart from it. He burned and razed.. And treated those who surrendered with the best care according to Confederates. Those stories were blown up and rather than full engagements, allowed his army to avoid that and instead gain surrenders, saving thousands of lives.

As for the lie that the union fell apart under Lincoln, the truth was secession was occurring even before he took office. It was his predecessor, James Buchanan who said the rebellion was illegal.

I do believe you are right about Lincolns beliefs it would be over quickly. He underestimated the desire of those southern leaders to hold together to support their "peculiar institution". He thought they would believe him on his claims he wouldn't try and end slavery if he had the chance. They didn't, and makes sense from their perspective not to believe those promises, since when given the chance, he fought to end slavery.

It's speculative fiction, but Harry Turtledove has a whole series of books on a Southern Victory and the repercussions of this through the 1940's.

Southern Victory - Wikipedia

Before the Battle of Antietam, Federal troops accidentally recovered a copy of Special Order 191, which detailed Lee's plan for the invasion of Maryland. Using this intelligence, Federal forces under George B. McClellan moved north and forced the Battle of Antietam, ending the invasion.

In Turtledove's alternate history, C.S. troops recover Lee's orders before the papers fall into Union hands. The resulting C.S. advance catches McClellan and the Union Army by surprise. General Lee forces McClellan into a battle on the banks of the Susquehanna River in Pennsylvania and destroys the Army of the Potomac in the Battle of Camp Hill on October 1, 1862.

After this decisive C.S. victory, Lee and the Army of Northern Virginia move eastward to occupy Philadelphia. The Confederate States earns diplomatic recognition from the United Kingdom and France. The two European nations force mediation on the United States; the C.S. achieves independence. This "War of Secession" ends in less than two years.

Better than that series is a book by Turtledove called Guns Of The South! That one book got me hooked on alternate history books.

Sounds good. Added to my kindle list. And interesting premise. I don't read a lot of alternate history but there was one about a modern carrier back in WWII. Made a movie even of it with the USs Kitty Hawk.. and another called destroyermen I think. WWII destroyer made it into an alternate dimension.

Good Book

A lot of interesting history mixed with historical fantasy

What if the South had AK 47s?