Angry NYPD Officer Eyewitness to 9/11 Speaks Out Against "Official Story"

[x0Maximilian0x]

Angry NYPD Officer Eyewitness to 9/11 Speaks Out Against "Official Story"

New York City Police Officer Craig Bartmer was a 9/11 first responder who details his experience of the event and also helped clean Ground Zero and details that scene also.

This Angry NYPD Officer at the scene on 9/11 also details his eyewitness account of collapse of Building 7, World Trade Center 7.

Keep in mind this is only one account out of countless prominent people who speak out against the "official story" for the 9/11 event.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9bmnIISrvg]9/11 Truth: NYPD first responder speaks out (1 of 3) - YouTube[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ln_WiAxiIbg]9/11 Truth: NYPD first responder speaks out (2 of 3) - YouTube[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecEqJM7EVV8]9/11 Truth: NYPD first responder speaks out (3 of 3) - YouTube[/ame]

 

[eots]

To the debwunkers eyewitnesses mean nothing unless its the one featured by popular mechanics etc..the rest are called confused or even liars

 

[x0Maximilian0x]

To the debwunkers eyewitnesses mean nothing unless its the one featured by popular mechanics etc..the rest are called confused or even liars

As if they are an O.J. Simpson defense attorney...

 

[x0Maximilian0x]

He brings up many, many good points during his interview...

 

[eots]

the destruction of evidence.. eyewitnesses

 

[eots]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DsvbyE8PVRA&feature=results_main&playnext=1&list=PL9951041A3CAC3F66]9/11 Crime Scene Evidence Was Destroyed - Firefighters For 9/11 Truth - YouTube[/ame]

 

[x0Maximilian0x]

the destruction of evidence.. eyewitnesses

He also brings up many very good points surrounding the 9/11 event that makes him angry...

 

[frazzledgear]

You people are kooks. Apparently you think the most transparent government on the planet is better at keeping massive conspiracies than the most oppressive, secretive regimes on the planet. You have to believe that in spite of the fact hundreds of thousands of classified documents have been stolen and published, Washington leaks like the sieve it is and our enemies can read all about our secrets in just about any US newspaper practically every other day -you have to be wearing that tinfoil hat pretty tight to believe THE worst possible conspiracy in the history of our SPECIES -took place in this country, one that had to have involved hundreds of people. And not ONE person had a single regret, did they? People have a hard time finding a hit man to kill their spouse -but apparently you think HUNDREDS of people are willing to commit the mass murder of their innocent fellow citizens without blinking, huh? And in all that time not ONE person has come forward to admit his role or ever had a second thought about it. Not one claiming this isn't what he thought he was signing on to do or how he was hoodwinked, lied to, manipulated, paid off, threatened. No one claiming how he had been misled to believe it was for a noble reason but now he has come to Jesus and realizes the horror of it all, didn't realize how many would be killed, or just because he can't sleep at night. I suggest you watch the History Channel's investigation into this theory -which they treated seriously and gave consideration to every aspect of the kooks' claims.

But also pointed out people need very little reason to see "conspiracy" in just about anything and quickly become so invested in it, they become unwilling and then totally unable to accept the conclusions, any findings, any evidence, the word of any expert -except those who will continue to feed into it.

I'm always amazed by the conspiracy crazies who thrive on this kind of bullshit. But you need to figure out your deep seated need to fuel what is clearly your hatred of this country. Because in the end -you kooks constantly insisted Bush was stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid. But a Machiavellian genius at the same time to pull off THE biggest conspiracy to MASS MURDER our own citizens -and not only had no problem getting others to participate in that, but to this day have no regrets about it either, right? (But then went back to being stupid, stupid, stupid -too stupid to even plant WMD in Iraq which would have been accepted by many even a couple of years later -but never did it.) But he was sure able to find all the help he needed for mass murder of innocent Americans AND pull it off flawlessly in less than 9 months into his administration, wasn't he? (Funny how not one of THOSE people had the bright idea of planting WMD in Iraq either though given it would be far less morally compromising for those who signed on to the MASS MURDER of fellow citizens -gee, planting a few tons of WMD which conspiracy theorists seem to think WE manufacture in this country anyway would be a NO BRAINER! But that didn't happen EITHER.) When he didn't even have his full cabinet in place and it typically takes an incoming President nearly a full year to get his administration up and running. But not GENIUS EVIL BUSH, right? He pulled off MASS MURDER, able to find all the cold psychopaths at his fingertips to commit the mass murder of thousands and potentially tens of thousands of innocents -and for WHAT? He still didn't get to be DICTATOR FOR LIFE -without a doubt he knew he was still going to be out after 8 years at the most, he still didn't tear up the Constitution and declare himself King. And please -enough of the tired old bs about wanting a war. (Of course someone willing to slaughter thousands of his OWN citizens would just LOVE to get on with slaughtering far more foreign ones, huh? LOL) The man was flummoxed by Gore's attempt to steal the election -but you think old evil Bush was busy plotting MASS MURDER. Just in case, huh? Which would explain the fact the terrorists had been planning and plotting this act when CLINTON was President in your mind? Or is it just evil USA no matter who is President for you?

So really honey, someone who isn't a ruler first of all -because in this country the Presidency is just one of three co-equal branches of government (or they were until Obama), and he still doesn't get to stay and must leave. Who in their fucking right mind would decide the mass murder of innocent fellow citizens was a "good idea" when there was actually NO gain that could possibly come close to weighing up favorably in light of the mass murder of thousands? NO AMERICAN, that's who. Sorry but it's time to try and occupy space in the real world -we know who did this and we know it happened and just because you like your conspiracy theory better and just because it feeds into your animosity towards the US and your desire to pretend the US is far more evil than the most oppressive regime on the planet -cannot make your little pet theory true. Too many people who investigated hoping to find CREDIBLE, SCIENTIFIC BASED evidence that would show the evil conspiracy theory was more likely than not -came away deeply disappointed when it was their pet theory that ended up being scientifically least likely to be true - but able to deal with reality. Time you did too.

 

[Liability]

To the debwunkers eyewitnesses mean nothing unless its the one featured by popular mechanics etc..the rest are called confused or even liars

debwunkers.

Such a cute little pussy make-believe word by the idiot scumbag lowlife twoofers.

 

[Douger]

Man. have you seen all of the flags on this site ?
You can't post the truth here
These murkins will waterboard your ass in the name of Geeziss and the Gawd that Blasses murka (Satan)

 

[eots]

You people are kooks. Apparently you think the most transparent government on the planet is better at keeping massive conspiracies than the most oppressive, secretive regimes on the planet. You have to believe that in spite of the fact hundreds of thousands of classified documents have been stolen and published, Washington leaks like the sieve it is and our enemies can read all about our secrets in just about any US newspaper practically every other day -you have to be wearing that tinfoil hat pretty tight to believe THE worst possible conspiracy in the history of our SPECIES -took place in this country, one that had to have involved hundreds of people. And not ONE person had a single regret, did they? People have a hard time finding a hit man to kill their spouse -but apparently you think HUNDREDS of people are willing to commit the mass murder of their innocent fellow citizens without blinking, huh? And in all that time not ONE person has come forward to admit his role or ever had a second thought about it. Not one claiming this isn't what he thought he was signing on to do or how he was hoodwinked, lied to, manipulated, paid off, threatened. No one claiming how he had been misled to believe it was for a noble reason but now he has come to Jesus and realizes the horror of it all, didn't realize how many would be killed, or just because he can't sleep at night. I suggest you watch the History Channel's investigation into this theory -which they treated seriously and gave consideration to every aspect of the kooks' claims.

But also pointed out people need very little reason to see "conspiracy" in just about anything and quickly become so invested in it, they become unwilling and then totally unable to accept the conclusions, any findings, any evidence, the word of any expert -except those who will continue to feed into it.

I'm always amazed by the conspiracy crazies who thrive on this kind of bullshit. But you need to figure out your deep seated need to fuel what is clearly your hatred of this country. Because in the end -you kooks constantly insisted Bush was stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid. But a Machiavellian genius at the same time to pull off THE biggest conspiracy to MASS MURDER our own citizens -and not only had no problem getting others to participate in that, but to this day have no regrets about it either, right? (But then went back to being stupid, stupid, stupid -too stupid to even plant WMD in Iraq which would have been accepted by many even a couple of years later -but never did it.) But he was sure able to find all the help he needed for mass murder of innocent Americans AND pull it off flawlessly in less than 9 months into his administration, wasn't he? (Funny how not one of THOSE people had the bright idea of planting WMD in Iraq either though given it would be far less morally compromising for those who signed on to the MASS MURDER of fellow citizens -gee, planting a few tons of WMD which conspiracy theorists seem to think WE manufacture in this country anyway would be a NO BRAINER! But that didn't happen EITHER.) When he didn't even have his full cabinet in place and it typically takes an incoming President nearly a full year to get his administration up and running. But not GENIUS EVIL BUSH, right? He pulled off MASS MURDER, able to find all the cold psychopaths at his fingertips to commit the mass murder of thousands and potentially tens of thousands of innocents -and for WHAT? He still didn't get to be DICTATOR FOR LIFE -without a doubt he knew he was still going to be out after 8 years at the most, he still didn't tear up the Constitution and declare himself King. And please -enough of the tired old bs about wanting a war. (Of course someone willing to slaughter thousands of his OWN citizens would just LOVE to get on with slaughtering far more foreign ones, huh? LOL) The man was flummoxed by Gore's attempt to steal the election -but you think old evil Bush was busy plotting MASS MURDER. Just in case, huh? Which would explain the fact the terrorists had been planning and plotting this act when CLINTON was President in your mind? Or is it just evil USA no matter who is President for you?

So really honey, someone who isn't a ruler first of all -because in this country the Presidency is just one of three co-equal branches of government (or they were until Obama), and he still doesn't get to stay and must leave. Who in their fucking right mind would decide the mass murder of innocent fellow citizens was a "good idea" when there was actually NO gain that could possibly come close to weighing up favorably in light of the mass murder of thousands? NO AMERICAN, that's who. Sorry but it's time to try and occupy space in the real world -we know who did this and we know it happened and just because you like your conspiracy theory better and just because it feeds into your animosity towards the US and your desire to pretend the US is far more evil than the most oppressive regime on the planet -cannot make your little pet theory true. Too many people who investigated hoping to find CREDIBLE, SCIENTIFIC BASED evidence that would show the evil conspiracy theory was more likely than not -came away deeply disappointed when it was their pet theory that ended up being scientifically least likely to be true - but able to deal with reality. Time you did too.

blah blah blah.. what ????

 

[Dude111]

To the debwunkers eyewitnesses mean nothing unless its the one featured by popular mechanics etc..the rest are called confused or even liars

Exactly!!!!

Most of the so called "Witnesses" are paid up the ass to lie like crazy!!!!! (How do they sleep at night??)

 

[Liability]

To the debwunkers eyewitnesses mean nothing unless its the one featured by popular mechanics etc..the rest are called confused or even liars

Exactly!!!!

Most of the so called "Witnesses" are paid up the ass to lie like crazy!!!!! (How do they sleep at night??)

 

[x0Maximilian0x]

You people are kooks. Apparently you think the most transparent government on the planet is better at keeping massive conspiracies than the most oppressive, secretive regimes on the planet. You have to believe that in spite of the fact hundreds of thousands of classified documents have been stolen and published, Washington leaks like the sieve it is and our enemies can read all about our secrets in just about any US newspaper practically every other day -you have to be wearing that tinfoil hat pretty tight to believe THE worst possible conspiracy in the history of our SPECIES -took place in this country, one that had to have involved hundreds of people. And not ONE person had a single regret, did they? People have a hard time finding a hit man to kill their spouse -but apparently you think HUNDREDS of people are willing to commit the mass murder of their innocent fellow citizens without blinking, huh? And in all that time not ONE person has come forward to admit his role or ever had a second thought about it. Not one claiming this isn't what he thought he was signing on to do or how he was hoodwinked, lied to, manipulated, paid off, threatened. No one claiming how he had been misled to believe it was for a noble reason but now he has come to Jesus and realizes the horror of it all, didn't realize how many would be killed, or just because he can't sleep at night. I suggest you watch the History Channel's investigation into this theory -which they treated seriously and gave consideration to every aspect of the kooks' claims.

But also pointed out people need very little reason to see "conspiracy" in just about anything and quickly become so invested in it, they become unwilling and then totally unable to accept the conclusions, any findings, any evidence, the word of any expert -except those who will continue to feed into it.

I'm always amazed by the conspiracy crazies who thrive on this kind of bullshit. But you need to figure out your deep seated need to fuel what is clearly your hatred of this country. Because in the end -you kooks constantly insisted Bush was stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid. But a Machiavellian genius at the same time to pull off THE biggest conspiracy to MASS MURDER our own citizens -and not only had no problem getting others to participate in that, but to this day have no regrets about it either, right? (But then went back to being stupid, stupid, stupid -too stupid to even plant WMD in Iraq which would have been accepted by many even a couple of years later -but never did it.) But he was sure able to find all the help he needed for mass murder of innocent Americans AND pull it off flawlessly in less than 9 months into his administration, wasn't he? (Funny how not one of THOSE people had the bright idea of planting WMD in Iraq either though given it would be far less morally compromising for those who signed on to the MASS MURDER of fellow citizens -gee, planting a few tons of WMD which conspiracy theorists seem to think WE manufacture in this country anyway would be a NO BRAINER! But that didn't happen EITHER.) When he didn't even have his full cabinet in place and it typically takes an incoming President nearly a full year to get his administration up and running. But not GENIUS EVIL BUSH, right? He pulled off MASS MURDER, able to find all the cold psychopaths at his fingertips to commit the mass murder of thousands and potentially tens of thousands of innocents -and for WHAT? He still didn't get to be DICTATOR FOR LIFE -without a doubt he knew he was still going to be out after 8 years at the most, he still didn't tear up the Constitution and declare himself King. And please -enough of the tired old bs about wanting a war. (Of course someone willing to slaughter thousands of his OWN citizens would just LOVE to get on with slaughtering far more foreign ones, huh? LOL) The man was flummoxed by Gore's attempt to steal the election -but you think old evil Bush was busy plotting MASS MURDER. Just in case, huh? Which would explain the fact the terrorists had been planning and plotting this act when CLINTON was President in your mind? Or is it just evil USA no matter who is President for you?

So really honey, someone who isn't a ruler first of all -because in this country the Presidency is just one of three co-equal branches of government (or they were until Obama), and he still doesn't get to stay and must leave. Who in their fucking right mind would decide the mass murder of innocent fellow citizens was a "good idea" when there was actually NO gain that could possibly come close to weighing up favorably in light of the mass murder of thousands? NO AMERICAN, that's who. Sorry but it's time to try and occupy space in the real world -we know who did this and we know it happened and just because you like your conspiracy theory better and just because it feeds into your animosity towards the US and your desire to pretend the US is far more evil than the most oppressive regime on the planet -cannot make your little pet theory true. Too many people who investigated hoping to find CREDIBLE, SCIENTIFIC BASED evidence that would show the evil conspiracy theory was more likely than not -came away deeply disappointed when it was their pet theory that ended up being scientifically least likely to be true - but able to deal with reality. Time you did too.

blah blah blah.. what ????

Simply amazing what a low I.Q. perceives...or refuses to acknowledge.

9/11 has more evidence of it simply being a sacrifice of a pawn to gain a strategic square on the world's chessboard than it does of hijackers doing it all alone.

 

[Liability]

You people are kooks. Apparently you think the most transparent government on the planet is better at keeping massive conspiracies than the most oppressive, secretive regimes on the planet. You have to believe that in spite of the fact hundreds of thousands of classified documents have been stolen and published, Washington leaks like the sieve it is and our enemies can read all about our secrets in just about any US newspaper practically every other day -you have to be wearing that tinfoil hat pretty tight to believe THE worst possible conspiracy in the history of our SPECIES -took place in this country, one that had to have involved hundreds of people. And not ONE person had a single regret, did they? People have a hard time finding a hit man to kill their spouse -but apparently you think HUNDREDS of people are willing to commit the mass murder of their innocent fellow citizens without blinking, huh? And in all that time not ONE person has come forward to admit his role or ever had a second thought about it. Not one claiming this isn't what he thought he was signing on to do or how he was hoodwinked, lied to, manipulated, paid off, threatened. No one claiming how he had been misled to believe it was for a noble reason but now he has come to Jesus and realizes the horror of it all, didn't realize how many would be killed, or just because he can't sleep at night. I suggest you watch the History Channel's investigation into this theory -which they treated seriously and gave consideration to every aspect of the kooks' claims.

But also pointed out people need very little reason to see "conspiracy" in just about anything and quickly become so invested in it, they become unwilling and then totally unable to accept the conclusions, any findings, any evidence, the word of any expert -except those who will continue to feed into it.

I'm always amazed by the conspiracy crazies who thrive on this kind of bullshit. But you need to figure out your deep seated need to fuel what is clearly your hatred of this country. Because in the end -you kooks constantly insisted Bush was stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid. But a Machiavellian genius at the same time to pull off THE biggest conspiracy to MASS MURDER our own citizens -and not only had no problem getting others to participate in that, but to this day have no regrets about it either, right? (But then went back to being stupid, stupid, stupid -too stupid to even plant WMD in Iraq which would have been accepted by many even a couple of years later -but never did it.) But he was sure able to find all the help he needed for mass murder of innocent Americans AND pull it off flawlessly in less than 9 months into his administration, wasn't he? (Funny how not one of THOSE people had the bright idea of planting WMD in Iraq either though given it would be far less morally compromising for those who signed on to the MASS MURDER of fellow citizens -gee, planting a few tons of WMD which conspiracy theorists seem to think WE manufacture in this country anyway would be a NO BRAINER! But that didn't happen EITHER.) When he didn't even have his full cabinet in place and it typically takes an incoming President nearly a full year to get his administration up and running. But not GENIUS EVIL BUSH, right? He pulled off MASS MURDER, able to find all the cold psychopaths at his fingertips to commit the mass murder of thousands and potentially tens of thousands of innocents -and for WHAT? He still didn't get to be DICTATOR FOR LIFE -without a doubt he knew he was still going to be out after 8 years at the most, he still didn't tear up the Constitution and declare himself King. And please -enough of the tired old bs about wanting a war. (Of course someone willing to slaughter thousands of his OWN citizens would just LOVE to get on with slaughtering far more foreign ones, huh? LOL) The man was flummoxed by Gore's attempt to steal the election -but you think old evil Bush was busy plotting MASS MURDER. Just in case, huh? Which would explain the fact the terrorists had been planning and plotting this act when CLINTON was President in your mind? Or is it just evil USA no matter who is President for you?

So really honey, someone who isn't a ruler first of all -because in this country the Presidency is just one of three co-equal branches of government (or they were until Obama), and he still doesn't get to stay and must leave. Who in their fucking right mind would decide the mass murder of innocent fellow citizens was a "good idea" when there was actually NO gain that could possibly come close to weighing up favorably in light of the mass murder of thousands? NO AMERICAN, that's who. Sorry but it's time to try and occupy space in the real world -we know who did this and we know it happened and just because you like your conspiracy theory better and just because it feeds into your animosity towards the US and your desire to pretend the US is far more evil than the most oppressive regime on the planet -cannot make your little pet theory true. Too many people who investigated hoping to find CREDIBLE, SCIENTIFIC BASED evidence that would show the evil conspiracy theory was more likely than not -came away deeply disappointed when it was their pet theory that ended up being scientifically least likely to be true - but able to deal with reality. Time you did too.

blah blah blah.. what ????

Simply amazing what a low I.Q. perceives...or refuses to acknowledge.

9/11 has more evidence of it simply being a sacrifice of a pawn to gain a strategic square on the world's chessboard than it does of hijackers doing it all alone.

No.

It doesn't.

 

[hjmick]

Humpty Dumpty was pushed.

 

[Liability]

Humpty Dumpty was pushed.

It was a fucking EGGsecution!

That's no yolk.

 

[candycorn]

You people are kooks. Apparently you think the most transparent government on the planet is better at keeping massive conspiracies than the most oppressive, secretive regimes on the planet. You have to believe that in spite of the fact hundreds of thousands of classified documents have been stolen and published, Washington leaks like the sieve it is and our enemies can read all about our secrets in just about any US newspaper practically every other day -you have to be wearing that tinfoil hat pretty tight to believe THE worst possible conspiracy in the history of our SPECIES -took place in this country, one that had to have involved hundreds of people. And not ONE person had a single regret, did they? People have a hard time finding a hit man to kill their spouse -but apparently you think HUNDREDS of people are willing to commit the mass murder of their innocent fellow citizens without blinking, huh? And in all that time not ONE person has come forward to admit his role or ever had a second thought about it. Not one claiming this isn't what he thought he was signing on to do or how he was hoodwinked, lied to, manipulated, paid off, threatened. No one claiming how he had been misled to believe it was for a noble reason but now he has come to Jesus and realizes the horror of it all, didn't realize how many would be killed, or just because he can't sleep at night. I suggest you watch the History Channel's investigation into this theory -which they treated seriously and gave consideration to every aspect of the kooks' claims.

But also pointed out people need very little reason to see "conspiracy" in just about anything and quickly become so invested in it, they become unwilling and then totally unable to accept the conclusions, any findings, any evidence, the word of any expert -except those who will continue to feed into it.

I'm always amazed by the conspiracy crazies who thrive on this kind of bullshit. But you need to figure out your deep seated need to fuel what is clearly your hatred of this country. Because in the end -you kooks constantly insisted Bush was stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid. But a Machiavellian genius at the same time to pull off THE biggest conspiracy to MASS MURDER our own citizens -and not only had no problem getting others to participate in that, but to this day have no regrets about it either, right? (But then went back to being stupid, stupid, stupid -too stupid to even plant WMD in Iraq which would have been accepted by many even a couple of years later -but never did it.) But he was sure able to find all the help he needed for mass murder of innocent Americans AND pull it off flawlessly in less than 9 months into his administration, wasn't he? (Funny how not one of THOSE people had the bright idea of planting WMD in Iraq either though given it would be far less morally compromising for those who signed on to the MASS MURDER of fellow citizens -gee, planting a few tons of WMD which conspiracy theorists seem to think WE manufacture in this country anyway would be a NO BRAINER! But that didn't happen EITHER.) When he didn't even have his full cabinet in place and it typically takes an incoming President nearly a full year to get his administration up and running. But not GENIUS EVIL BUSH, right? He pulled off MASS MURDER, able to find all the cold psychopaths at his fingertips to commit the mass murder of thousands and potentially tens of thousands of innocents -and for WHAT? He still didn't get to be DICTATOR FOR LIFE -without a doubt he knew he was still going to be out after 8 years at the most, he still didn't tear up the Constitution and declare himself King. And please -enough of the tired old bs about wanting a war. (Of course someone willing to slaughter thousands of his OWN citizens would just LOVE to get on with slaughtering far more foreign ones, huh? LOL) The man was flummoxed by Gore's attempt to steal the election -but you think old evil Bush was busy plotting MASS MURDER. Just in case, huh? Which would explain the fact the terrorists had been planning and plotting this act when CLINTON was President in your mind? Or is it just evil USA no matter who is President for you?

So really honey, someone who isn't a ruler first of all -because in this country the Presidency is just one of three co-equal branches of government (or they were until Obama), and he still doesn't get to stay and must leave. Who in their fucking right mind would decide the mass murder of innocent fellow citizens was a "good idea" when there was actually NO gain that could possibly come close to weighing up favorably in light of the mass murder of thousands? NO AMERICAN, that's who. Sorry but it's time to try and occupy space in the real world -we know who did this and we know it happened and just because you like your conspiracy theory better and just because it feeds into your animosity towards the US and your desire to pretend the US is far more evil than the most oppressive regime on the planet -cannot make your little pet theory true. Too many people who investigated hoping to find CREDIBLE, SCIENTIFIC BASED evidence that would show the evil conspiracy theory was more likely than not -came away deeply disappointed when it was their pet theory that ended up being scientifically least likely to be true - but able to deal with reality. Time you did too.

blah blah blah.. what ????

Simply amazing what a low I.Q. perceives

The irony isn't lost on us. For example, you perceive yourself as important.

 

[Liability]

blah blah blah.. what ????

Simply amazing what a low I.Q. perceives

The irony isn't lost on us. For example, you perceive yourself as important.

Even funnier, he "perceives" himself to be high I.Q.

 

[daws101]

To the debwunkers eyewitnesses mean nothing unless its the one featured by popular mechanics etc..the rest are called confused or even liars

wrong as usual, none of your eyewitnesses testimonies match any empirical evidence..so you're right they are confused or lying...